Is it Time For 10 Second Checks in Little Pack?

[randy hicks]

when I first ran/judged in arha many years ago. the cast where two hour hunts this made for the minus system to actually work for the hounds that where questionable. Then for some reason this was changed and the hounds that would do certain thing are now saved by the clock. 15 second checks,a judge a running from behind even cutting the hounds off on a mark line doesn't always result in a score. the minus system tho is money, I used to give minuses whenever I could and as the junk was picked up the race improved. today I believe a check is a check I don't need 15 seconds to figure it out 15 seconds, for me is a loss usually is either caused by a tricky bunny or a hound screwing it up.

[rabbitearl]

I agree with Randy,A check is a check. I don t think anybody would sell a dog by it getting the check to fast. (I need to sell that dog cause it gets the check too fast) I need a dog that would get the check after 15 sec to win trials. JMO

[Lone Pine Beagles]

A 5 second check time would be awesome.
Along with a 5 or 10 min "no hunt" rule.

[Aubrey Holcombe]

I ran L.P. ARHA for a little while with my gundog, and the 15 Sec. checks is Why, I choose to go to the Progressive Pack, type hunts when they came out back in the late 1980's I did not like the 15 sec.

I think the p.p. type hounds are lost more, My style of gun dogs,, but there are lost of places that the hounds can let it rock and roll,, here in my part of Ga. we have lots of very thick cover, and that does make a big difference.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>

[Bad Luck Kennels]

JMO !!
Would not work out very good on the score card. You have a cast of 5 big males and they run a rabbit with a mission to catch it you might get that 15 second check but you ain't gonna get that 10 second check because they are pounding. The judge is getting his guts ran out and dont have time to catch up. Then there you go with the judges calling time out all the time. Instead of 200 points on the card you are going to have a good strike and that's it. You won't bring back the right dog. Like I said this is just my opinion.

[BB Beagles]

This is just a question, but why is it a set time for checks? 15 sec? How they come up with that? Why not 5,6,7,8,9,10 sec checks? I agree with the statement " a check is a check" no matter how many secs or the cause. Granted shorter checks would make score higher, also you prob get the hound that is working harder to find them. Each judge is a lil diff too on checks. I've seen some use a watch, some count, I think some count by 5's. On other hand I've had judges tell me my dog had few 12-14 sec checks but can't award them, but if they did I might've won cast? Big debate. Lol!

If we're talking bout time, why after the barks, 3 mins produce rabbit? Seen it bunch 3 min goes out, cast moves 50-75 yds away, dogs go right back to same area and somebody gets jump/strike on spit were somebody just drew minus. Why 3 min? I think PP got 4? Big debate. Lol!

If there's time on these things, why no time on when judge calls dead track? He could call it 30sec after breakdown or 30 min? I understand one holeing up but what if in brush pile and they get him out? Just wondered ?

I my opinion the perfect score card would be 40-0-0-0-0. Jump/strike no breakdowns.
I think sometimes guys get upset when they don't see them high numbers. To me a scorecard with a ton of high scores could mean lot diff things, but first thing I think of is they had hard time moving rabbit which produced a ton of checks.

[chris83]

Just my two cents, which is worth just what you pay for it. I thought the 15 seconds was to give the judge time to catch up because LP dogs are generally faster. I'd be fine with a 10 second check. Lots of dogs pick it up at between 10 and 15 seconds. It would improve scores. If I am judging--something rare--I don't care if the dog handles for me or the handler. I'd be interested in hunt--period. As far as ties for first in a cast, I'm not sure. If you just look at hunt and leave the minor faults out that a particular judge doesn't like, it would be okay. In the north, we deal with rabbits in brush piles that refuse to come out and the dog draws a minus. Another rule that modification would improve scores. The dog working/hunting the hardest should get more that a -10 for his effort. A dog just standing around scores higher. I also think there should be either a time out at a "dead track" or a specified time for the handlers to get their dogs before the judge resumes the hunt. It's not fair to the cast to wait 7 or 8 minutes or longer for someone to catch their dog and the clock is still running. Good discussion.

Are changes initiated by clubs or by ARHA Rules Committee?

Larry

If you don't care how the dog handles, why is it unfair for the cast to have to sit around and wait on someone to catch a dog ? Every cast I've ever judged and its been 100s,we were on time out and the time was added back in. I give and hour of running, I wont however wait 20 minuets for some one to catch a dog that has absolutely no handle. Rule #4. The amount of time used for a time out shall be added to the total time of the hunt. Example: A 1-hour hunt started at 9:00 AM. The judge called a 10-minute time out. Instead of the hunt ending at 10:00 AM, it will end at 10:10 AM. So if your not getting an hour of run time ask the judge why. I understand we are all different and looking for something different, but we are suppose to be looking for the best rabbit dog. A dog that hunts 1000 yards out infront of me and could give two craps less where im at is not much of a "rabbit dog" IMO. I have seena very short chase to a dozer pile and judged gave +10, a good strike. I agreed wasn't my dog they never got the rabbit out but the dog had a rabbit never the less.

Jim I like a tighter working dog myself, good idea.

[TRK]

We tried to get it changed to a 10 second check back when we used to go vote on the rule changes but it was voted down. I think it would be an improvement.

[doubleb]

check time was set at 15 seconds for the judge not the hound.although a 10 second check would change the running style some I don't think the judge would get as many. I have judged for 20 yrs off and on and I think other things could improve the quality of hound more than the check rule. But I for one think its great now after all we are the ones breeding the fast ruff hounds so we must like them if I wanted a more conservative dogs there are other divisions to run under just my humble opinion

[Alabama John]

Judges are good hound men and they, after a while watching and hearing a pack run can tell you which dog is the best one. Who is next and so on. Judge them on hunt and running ability instead of check making.

We have hunted with many that compete and they usually leave their ARHA and to be fair, also their AKC Brace trial dogs at home and bring the real rabbit dogs to hunt with.

Not so with AKC or PP dogs, they bring them.

Forget time and most rules, trust the judge to pick the best rabbit jumping and running dogs.

[warddog]

Judges are good hound men and they, after a while watching and hearing a pack run can tell you which dog is the best one. Who is next and so on. Judge them on hunt and running ability instead of check making.

We have hunted with many that compete and they usually leave their ARHA and to be fair, also their AKC Brace trial dogs at home and bring the real rabbit dogs to hunt with.

Not so with AKC or PP dogs, they bring them.

Forget time and most rules, trust the judge to pick the best rabbit jumping and running dogs.

I agree John and I never did understand having to run behind a pack of dogs to see everything they were doing. Of course my competition experience was with UKC nite hounds where score was made by strikes and trees at the end in which game was seen. Plus points could only be awarded when game was seen and that was what determined whether they were plus, minus or circle. I have also wondered what is meant by 'run to catch" as it applies to hunting situations. I have seen many beagles that take off wide hunting and get a rabbit going away from the hunters as well as the other dogs while they get a rabbit up behind that one. I'm of the opinion that hunt and terrain hunted in go hand in hand. I'm just confused in how folks see hunt and run to catch be it the dog hunting and running to catch for itself or whether they do it for the hunter. As a hunter I don't need one that does it for itself although in nature that is exactly what it would do but in domestication it would be a tool I would use to put meat on the table.

[doubleb]

alabamajohn don't know who your running with but my ARHA little pack hounds are my gun hounds. anytime I go trialing or hunting they go with me. If my trial hounds were not good gun dogs I would not own them.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Think about it. The ruffer the dog the longer recovery time will be right? 15 second checks went out with 8 track tapes/ Smoother the running shorter the checks right? Good ideal Jim make it happen. Abshire

[doubleb]

maple that's my point they have divisions for smoother running hounds little pack aint it. Instead of changing little pack to be slower smoother dogs just run PP seems that would make more sense. I like fast ruff dogs so I run little pack. I would think most people running little pack like the same style hound or they would be running something else.

[sparky]

The idea of a good rabbit dog should be to run a rabbit as fast as possible with control of the line,kinda harder to shoot rabbits if the dogs keep breakin down all the time,Just because a dog is fast doesn't necessarily mean they are rough,if some of the rough running could be eliminated by shortening the checks up,that doesn't mean you would have to sacrifice speed. It would promote a fast dog that stays in close contact with the line,maybe eliminate some of the swinging,skirting,etc etc, I think it's a good idea,and could help better the breed as lock on rabbit/gun dogs.