WHO's GOT THE BEST LINE CONTROL (stud dog please)

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I'd have to agree with pcable in regards to the Threejays Jack's dogs.
I have a 7 month old female out of Threejays Jack's Fly Man and she is close,clean and plenty of foot.For a young started dog she is very accurate running solo or braced up.
Jack Blum's Threejays Kennel has always had a good reputation for solid line running hounds on snow or sod.

[BCBeagles]

Solo and brace most hounds should have "good" line control. But what do the genetics show when they are put down with a balanced pack of 5-6??

Do they continue to run the track or do they strive to out compete the others....a true test of line control.....tracking when the others maybe racing for the front...
In a short period of time you can see what they are predisposed to do genetically. You can't take out what is programmed in...you might be able to mask it....ex. solo, solo, solo....but put that dog back in a pack and see if the preprogramming doesn't rear its ugly head again.

Give me dogs that track a rabbit regardless of there pack mates....these kind will show you line control more than just solo and brace...JMO.

Good luck with your search!!

[eddywilliams]

Lock & Roll

[Ron Conroe]

Solo and brace most hounds should have "good" line control. But what do the genetics show when they are put down with a balanced pack of 5-6??

Do they continue to run the track or do they strive to out compete the others....a true test of line control.....tracking when the others maybe racing for the front...
In a short period of time you can see what they are predisposed to do genetically. You can't take out what is programmed in...you might be able to mask it....ex. solo, solo, solo....but put that dog back in a pack and see if the preprogramming doesn't rear its ugly head again.

Give me dogs that track a rabbit regardless of there pack mates....these kind will show you line control more than just solo and brace...JMO.

Good luck with your search!!

You got it Jim. There is rabbit dogs and then there is competition dogs, people can say what they want.

[eddywilliams]

I kill plenty of rabbits off my competition dogs every rabbit season. I am not sure about any one else .Shaker & Striker,Ninja bred hounds continue to produce hounds placing in LARGE PACK under alot of pressure acheiving their FC LP title over and over and over .And thats under extreme pack pressure 25 to 40 dogs or more , I dont think their worried about pack mates much just the rabbit . I also think the Ranger Dan bred dogs have good line control to but most I have seen dont have the foot .imo

[mybeagles]

Some of the faster end bloodlines would be very well served to cross in some line conscious breeding. Over competitiveness is a fatal fault thats rendering some bloodline ineffective for game accountability. Admittedly most of the close line control dogs don't compete for the front and won't win any of the faster trials, but their removal from the pack often renders the head bangers completely ineffective. The tolerance for way to many "bad scenting" days has me a little puzzled. If I enter the woods for the day and my dogs can't account for multiple rabbits because they won't slow down enough to keep it going it makes me nauseous. Yet I can't count the number of guys I run with that take it in stride and just consider it the cost of doing business. They go home SO PROUD of the fact their dog always come out on the trail FIRST.....

While Im certain very few on this sight want brace dogs, there just may be something these line conscious dogs have to offer?

Mybeagles

[SNOWDOGS1]

I agree with mybeagles. One of the reasons I quit trialing was because of the direction AKC LP trials were heading. Speed became the name of the game at a big cost to line control. Don't get me wrong, I like a dog with plenty of foot, but they have to be able to hold the line pretty consistently and the majority of real fast hounds I have seen can't. I don't like dogs that race each other for the front constantly over running the line. Believe me, I have had plenty and still have a couple that aren't as tight on a line as I like. A good run to me does not consist of a series of balls to the wall one hundred yard dashes to a series of checks because of over competitive hounds. The one that runs near the front, but makes the turns when others over run is the dog I want to feed. A good run to me is one that is steady with few break downs, but still with enough speed to make it exciting. I would give up a step in speed for more control any day. I believe if you are a speed demon, you will most likely go through a lot of hounds before you find the special ones that can handle a lot of foot. I have seen some, but not a lot that can handle running at top gear without causing their own checks. To run like that a dog needs a great nose and brains to handle it. I have seen a few Lumberjack, Ninja, Shaker and Striker bred hounds that could do it pretty well. I have also seen many out of those lines that look bad and over run a lot also. I know you didn't really mention speed in your original post, but if you are looking for a stud dog with very good control that can also really push a rabbit hard, Good luck in your search. The key is, can you find one that consistently throws offspring that can handle the speed. If you can find one that does that, let us know. I for one would be very interested. An upper med. to low end fast stud is where I would be looking for a little more control, but with enough foot. I am trying some Shooter blood to see if I can get what I am looking for. If it works out on the control end I am considering incorporating some of that blood into some of the lines mentioned above to see if I can come up with the style and speed I like. Time will tell.

[Pine Lakes]

I believe that foot speed is not the problem, independence and concentration are the culprits to inconsistent running in my opinion. There are days when the 2 males that I'm trialing can only manage a little over 4 mph on the garming, but there are days when they are well over 5 mph. The key is they focus on running the rabbit, not pack mates. Neither will win a race around the track chasing a mechanical rabbit, but they'll be towards the front of a pack pursuing a cottontail more often than not. I used to be obsessed with speed, but now I focus on the level of concentration and the discipline to run the rabbit regardless of packmates' faults. I like steady, smooth running at a maximum pace without frequent breakdowns.

[BCBeagles]

Agreed....quality post.

[Casey Harner]

Good thing about gun season, when the gun is out the dog's bs comes out we well.

[sparky]

There are days when the 2 males that I'm trialing can only manage a little over 4 mph on the garming, but there are days when they are well over 5 mph. Neither will win a race around the track chasing a mechanical rabbit, but they'll be towards the front of a pack pursuing a cottontail more often than not.

Chip, What's the pedigrees on your two males? I heard their both nice dogs.

[deerhost]

Pine lakes hit the nail on the head. Great post.......dh

[SNOWDOGS1]

I also agree with Pine Lakes, but it seems what you described is dogs that are smart enough to run the speed the scenting conditions dictate. If they do that regardless of pack pressure, then that is the type hound I am looking to breed to. Some of mine look decent solo or brace and will adjust speed to the scent, but when in a bigger pack they can definitely get rougher. It just seemed to me at the time I trialed many LP trialers were to hung up on speed and bred for it. The thought was ,you have to have a fast hound so the dog is in front to get noticed by the judges. I think what we all want is the track conscious hound that is always where the track is regardless of pack pressure. If they can do that with speed, all the better. Speed matters to a degree, I certainly don't want a slow dog, but the dog that's smart enough to adjust to the scenting conditions and just runs the track regardless of its pack mates is the one I want to breed to as long as he is not totally independent and won't pack at all. If that dog is a step slower than some, so be it, that's OK with me. To many guys seem to be more concerned with if their hound is in the lead when they see the pack no matter how many breakdowns are occurring. Breed for accomplishment under the gun and the trial stuff should work itself out in most cases. JMHO

[Pine Lakes]

There are days when the 2 males that I'm trialing can only manage a little over 4 mph on the garming, but there are days when they are well over 5 mph. Neither will win a race around the track chasing a mechanical rabbit, but they'll be towards the front of a pack pursuing a cottontail more often than not.

Chip, What's the pedigrees on your two males? I heard their both nice dogs.

One is out of IFC Dirty Pond Legacy's Blacky and Off Road Angel Eyes(FTC Awful Bawlin Verswacker and FTC Red Sun Shelby). The other is off of FTC Snow's The Whole Shabang and Awful Bawlin Question The Judge(FTC Moneysunk Mountain Man and FTC Awful Bawlin Desire).

[deerhost]

Watched Dirty Pond blacky run here in New York. His owner Andy P lived a couple of towns over from me. Andy had running grounds and was nice enough to let me run in his grounds. Many times when I was there running my dogs, blacky was on the ground and running. I still to this day think he was the best 15" male I've ever seen run....dh