Tomorrow NOON

This is a good place to inform fellow hunters about bills and other legislation that may jeopardize our rights to hunt and free cast our hounds.

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Bunnyblaster
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Bunnyblaster » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:48 am

Mo. Beagler 5000 wrote:

Rabbithoundjb wrote:5000 for a teacher you don't comprehend very well. Where did I say outlaw abortion, I said the same people exploiting these kids for there leftist agenda which by the way will NOT stop these terrible crimes from happening would have not had a second thought about aborting them. A typical answer though from a liberal, It is tooo much for me to expect people to except responsibility for their actions so I should fund their actions/behavior, i.e birth control, contraceptives, viagra, condoms, and so on. So when are you going to start paying for my dog food, vaccines, wormer and so on.




1. I comprehended it pretty we;--- You CLEARLY were using abortion as a juxtaposition to the CT shooting. Saying there was no difference in the people saying one is ok but the other is not.. Your position was that both were murder...MY response. ONE IS LEGALLY MURDER--- the other is PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION.... That right there shows it isn't hypocrisy.. Its common sense.

2. And I will start paying for your dog food when its a real human being who is suffering and can't get a leg up in life. You realize people are going to make stupid choices no matter what... YA IT SUCKS I HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMEONES STUPID LIFE CHOICE. I LOATHE IT!! But paying for those things are infinitely more beneficial to society then not paying for them because of the long term costs... Suck it up and deal with it.

It is no different than the people who have no kids and whine they have to pay taxes for schools. Its because in the long run, having an educated society is better for everyone..

So... throw up more smoke screens and say I didn't understand what you meant and I'll keep responding and proving my case and let you make snide remarks about me and attack me because you have no valid argument. its getting kind of old but we can keep playing if you want.




I know you're kinda taking a beating here but I gotta jump in yet again. ;)

We are once again not treating the problem but trying to once again cover our @$$e$ on the back side. I understand trying to minimize the financial burden people's choices place on the rest of us but by doing so we take away the need for people to take responsibility for their own actions. In a perfect world someone makes a mistake and ends up getting pregnant on accident. They receive help either with an abortion or possibly with government funds to help with the child and they learn their lesson and go on to put in the best effort they can and move on with their lives and actually try to provide for themselves. In our world(i.e. reality) these people use these things as a way to either not take responsibility for their own actions or to take advantage of the system that was originally set up to help people truly in need that are willing to actually help themselves and make better choices in the future. I don't think someone should be "punished" for the rest of their lives for making one bad decision but the reality is we are being punished repeatedly for those that continually make poor choices and could care less. If you always had someone or something to fall back on then what is the incentive to do the right thing?? Obviously morals and integrity are a thing of the past for most people so the only thing left, and I'm sorry to have to say it this way, is punishment. People NEED to once again learn to take responsibility for their own actions and if parenting or religion isn't doing it then we need to find something that will.

And as for the fiasco of paying for birth control, while I would rather see that than abortions how do you justify forcing companies like Hobby Lobby to pay for something they do not believe in based on their religion. And don't come back to me with their employees don't have to believe in it because my response to that is then they don't have to work there either. You can't trade someone else's freedoms for another.........imo that is that absolute antipathy of true freedom.
Bunnyblaster

"You can't change the past but you can ruin the present by worrying about the future."

warddog
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by warddog » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:11 pm

People get fixated on an issue or two when it comes to picking political sides and being liberal on one issue does not make you a liberal nor does being conservative on another issue make you a conservative. What gets me is where is a political party that stands up for what this country was founded on.........FREEDOM! I have read the posts and I can show you infringements from BOTH political parties upon an individual's right to choose. I will also say that with that right to choose they also have the right to the consequences as a result of the choices they have freely made. I believe in helping folks that are just down on their luck BUT only to the ppoint of them getting back up on their feet and not them becoming professional freeloaders, gaming the system. I am also one of those who made the chouice to NOT have children and I certainly do not like paying fpor all the school taxes when I have no voice in what is done with it. I also don't mind paying my fair share of income taxes but loathe having to pay more because the rich have a means to bypass their fair share through loopholes. I don't mind any business making a profit when pricing their wares as that is what they are in business to do BUT I hate it when they tell me I can't price mine to them in the form of wages and benefits. Although many have multiple shot magazines that they fire in LOOK-A-LIKE military assault weapons, that I have no ned for, I hate anyone telling me I can't keep and bear ANY arms I so desire. Having children in most cases was the individuals choice but I loathe anyone mandating that anyone else must bear one. I love the US Constitution and it's Amendments that has stood the test of time for 200 years but I hate anyone who wants to reinterpret the language that has been in practice for all those years. People are entitled to the freedom of their opinions but the wriiten word within the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights define what the people are entitled to in this country.

Rabbithoundjb
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Rabbithoundjb » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 pm

I agree with most of your post wardog but you will have to show me where I have denied anyones right to choose on any issue, I just don't want to fund their discision. You do know that the handful of people who are in the 1% pay 40% of the annual taxes while only having 23% of the wealth. Even though they take advantage of loopholes they still pay waaaaay more than their share of the tax burden. As someone said earlier a flat tax, no loopholes, no exemptions, no write offs. Everyone has the same % of their income in the game, period. Now thats fair not 10% paying 70%, thats unfair.

Sooner or later the taker crowd is going to become so large there will not be enough middle class or wealthy to absorb them. When that finally happens there won't be enough resources left to rebuild an economy with a booming population of uneducated, unskilled, non driven people who know nothing but dependency.

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Bev
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Bev » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:43 pm

I personally think you should be able to waive which programs you are willing to support with your tax dollars. In return, you are exempt from ever receiving the benefits of those programs. I know for a fact I wouldn't have an abortion unless my life were at risk. And now that I'm of non baby-bearing age, it's a given that I won't use that service. I will gladly pay into Social Security, pay my local property taxes, etc., and I will even pay into medicaid and general welfare programs because I understand that people do fall on hard times. But I DO NOT EVER want to be forced to pay for somebody else's sexual irresponsibility or lack of planning. That's a personal issue, not a federal issue, and they can pay for it themselves. I don't care how they do it. Have a damnn lemonade stand. Have a garage sale. Borrow it from your aunt, but don't ask me to pay for it.

Newt
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Newt » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:58 pm

Rabbithoundjb wrote: Sooner or later the taker crowd is going to become so large there will not be enough middle class or wealthy to absorb them. When that finally happens there won't be enough resources left to rebuild an economy with a booming population of uneducated, unskilled, non driven people who know nothing but dependency.
We passed that point shortly after LBJ initiated his Great Society plan to irradicate poverty. Or maybe it was a plan to make a dependent class to perpetuate one party. Either way it continues to grow while the working class continues to shrink.
How long would your kennel last if you bred your culls and neutered your productive dogs. Soon you would have to go out of the kennel (country) to find dogs(people) to fill the needs of a productive kennel(society).

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Bev
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Bev » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:05 pm

Atlas needs to shrug.

Pine Lakes
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Pine Lakes » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:09 pm

Mo. Beagler 5000 wrote:
Rabbithoundjb wrote:Good point Newt, I asked a hard core Obama supporter at work here to tell me what the difference was between aborting those kids after they had a heart beat and them being killed at that school. They all died by someone elses hands and discisions and actions they had no control of. Mind you as I say that I am not against a women who is raped, mistreated, at health risk being able to terminate a pregnancy in its early stage as long as I am not forced in any form to fund it.

My point is the same people who are outraged at guns are the same people who would exploit these kids for political gain and been all for each one of them being aborted on demand.
The difference is one is PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION YOU GUYS KEEP SAYING YOU UPHOLD and the other is illegal in every society to ever exist... That's the difference. And the funding thing makes me so mad... Ok you wanna outlaw abortions or have less of them then FUND BIRTH CONTROL FOR WOMEN and give out contraceptives for free. It solves thousands of abortions every year and is more cost effective than having an unwanted pregnancy and abortion...

Yet, family values republicans don't want that too happen because, OH NO PEOPLE HAVE SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE..!! So instead they bitch about low income families having multiple babies and then bitch more they want an abortion...
I can see how you believe irresponsible people don't use contreception because of cost, when you also believe stripping the rights of law abiding citizens will have a positive effect on criminal activities. The same group of people believe both.

hookset
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by hookset » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:09 pm

Bev wrote:Atlas needs to shrug.
:thumbsup:

New York Hillbilly
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by New York Hillbilly » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 pm

Thank you Bev...........I was reading these posts because I'm home sick on the couch today with a lung infection, and you made me laugh and almost choke to death, with your antics on about page 5. The death faking stuff is classic! I really would have died laughing, but my wife is out getting me cough drops, and I was afraid she wouldn't remember my password so she could come here and tell you I was dead. LOL......cough....choke.

Hey, with all these teachers that keep getting busted for sleeping with their students, maybe we should out law teachers.

I know you once said upstate NY was someplace you might like to live. How about with all this stuff going on? Is there a state more out of whack, or so far removed from reality? Both the liberal and conservative media continue to puke their agendas into our ears. You know, us, the "people who cling to their bibles and guns".

As we send men and women around the world, putting them in harms way, to secure for people, "rights" and "freedom", here at home we face seeing our rights and freedoms stripped away. Right now there are, a lot of people, with a lot of influence, and a lot of power, who know a lot of nothing, about a lot of things, who want nothing more than to gain for themselves more political power and control, making decisions that threaten to strip away a lot of our rights, starting I believe with this current challenge to the second amendment.
Last edited by New York Hillbilly on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mo. Beagler 5000
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Mo. Beagler 5000 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:53 pm

Rabbithoundjb wrote:I agree Bev, they are people and people by nature have a bias/opinion. I don't trust snopes or the media outlets they are ALL bias, some worse than others but still all bias. The same goes for all the various fact checker groups. I BELIEVE WHAT I SEE. A government passing another entitlement it can't afford and on top of that excluding themselves from it. More people dropping out of the labor force than getting jobs. Handouts expanding and exploiding, dependency running rampant. Well I could go on and on and on but only the people fooling themselves are being fooled.

Mo. beagle is a good example, I bet he doesn't do his kids class work for them and give them his grade if he does all that would teach is dependency. I don't mind helping anybody but at a point they have to take the ball themselves and I just don't see responsibility being expanded.

I am not picking on you 5000 just debating your logic. The same with the gun issue, taking guns or clips are not going to reduce violent crimes only stonger and swifter justice is going to do that and doing something just to say you tried is irresponsible and dodging doing what it would take to get real results.

Ok, I understand your point and we are coming closer to see eye to eye even if we will never agree. So in the CT shooting, who do you chose to believe. Neither of us were there but it did happen. And in it happening he either used an AR or he didn't . This isn't a schrodingers cat thought experiment. What sources do you believe? I believe in the video I saw, the police chief, the medical examiner, the parents, the shell casings, the reports of 100's of shots, snopes, and every other website that says this did happen.

What sources are you using to drive or come to a logical conclusion that the guy didn't have an AR besides a few early reports that were retracted the same day?

If everyone is biased and they are, you still have to believe something... The only time bias hurts is when your not aware you have it and use it to manipulate.
God isn't real, Beer is good and people are crazy, there I fixed it.

Mo. Beagler 5000
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Mo. Beagler 5000 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 pm

Bev wrote:I personally think you should be able to waive which programs you are willing to support with your tax dollars. In return, you are exempt from ever receiving the benefits of those programs. I know for a fact I wouldn't have an abortion unless my life were at risk. And now that I'm of non baby-bearing age, it's a given that I won't use that service. I will gladly pay into Social Security, pay my local property taxes, etc., and I will even pay into medicaid and general welfare programs because I understand that people do fall on hard times. But I DO NOT EVER want to be forced to pay for somebody else's sexual irresponsibility or lack of planning. That's a personal issue, not a federal issue, and they can pay for it themselves. I don't care how they do it. Have a damnn lemonade stand. Have a garage sale. Borrow it from your aunt, but don't ask me to pay for it.

I understand you have that frustration but we cannot be allowed to decide what taxes we don't want to pay. I would never pay taxes for kids because I don't have any or maybe someone in new York walks to work and they don't wanna pay taxes for road improvements. What if someone says I don't want one dollar to go to social security because I am rich.. The price of admission to being a citizen is civic responsibility. You have to pay taxes on whatever congress/constitution allows but you get to live in an awesome county where people generally don't kill each other in the streets. What about grey areas like NASA. You don't want to fund it but people sure as hell are quick to use velcrow, have an MRI or use medicines scientists came up with..

If your religion is more important than paying taxes then you know the penalty for doing that or you can move... No society has ever allowed people to willy nilly decide if they pay taxes or not. The constitution you guys keep saying you love so much demands it.
God isn't real, Beer is good and people are crazy, there I fixed it.

Mo. Beagler 5000
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Mo. Beagler 5000 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:06 pm

Bunnyblaster wrote:


I know you're kinda taking a beating here but I gotta jump in yet again. ;)

We are once again not treating the problem but trying to once again cover our @$$e$ on the back side. I understand trying to minimize the financial burden people's choices place on the rest of us but by doing so we take away the need for people to take responsibility for their own actions. In a perfect world someone makes a mistake and ends up getting pregnant on accident. They receive help either with an abortion or possibly with government funds to help with the child and they learn their lesson and go on to put in the best effort they can and move on with their lives and actually try to provide for themselves. In our world(i.e. reality) these people use these things as a way to either not take responsibility for their own actions or to take advantage of the system that was originally set up to help people truly in need that are willing to actually help themselves and make better choices in the future. I don't think someone should be "punished" for the rest of their lives for making one bad decision but the reality is we are being punished repeatedly for those that continually make poor choices and could care less. If you always had someone or something to fall back on then what is the incentive to do the right thing?? Obviously morals and integrity are a thing of the past for most people so the only thing left, and I'm sorry to have to say it this way, is punishment. People NEED to once again learn to take responsibility for their own actions and if parenting or religion isn't doing it then we need to find something that will.

And as for the fiasco of paying for birth control, while I would rather see that than abortions how do you justify forcing companies like Hobby Lobby to pay for something they do not believe in based on their religion. And don't come back to me with their employees don't have to believe in it because my response to that is then they don't have to work there either. You can't trade someone else's freedoms for another.........imo that is that absolute antipathy of true freedom.
Here is how I justify it. Corporations for whatever stupid reason are people. People have to pay taxes on crap they don't like all the time for the betterment of society... Hobby lobby is no different. If they don't want to pay taxes fine. Let em go out of business so someone who will pay taxes uses the free market to open a new Hobby store to fill the void. If they feel their religion is more important than their duty as citizens then fine... They have a choice to make.
God isn't real, Beer is good and people are crazy, there I fixed it.

Rabbitridgerunner
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Rabbitridgerunner » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Published on Jan 18, 2013
Though President Obama pushes forward with an assault rifle ban using the tragedy at Sandy Hook as an example, NBC news admits there was no assault rifle used at Sandy Hook Elementary.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJkvB9go ... e=youtu.be

joe kaschak
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by joe kaschak » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

I just want to throw in a few items for all you debaters to consider.

First on taxes and religion: When asked about that same subject, did not Jesus Christ respond "give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and to GOD, that which is GOD's" (please don't try to give me a bible debate because I cannot win that arguement as I have never read the bible. For this quote, I relied solely on my Catholic upbringing as to what I remember).

Second, on welfare: Why not put abled bodies to work on doing maintainence on game land, state parks, etc as in the forties. Why give money and food stamps, why not food stuffs (quality food bought from small farms and local markets), so you wouldn't have the abuses. Giving people money opens up the chances for abuse. Giving them enough to survive but not live comfortably, might just give them incentive to better their lives.

Rabbithoundjb
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Re: Tomorrow NOON

Post by Rabbithoundjb » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:43 pm

5000 it doesn't matter to me if they used or didn't use the AR, the gun nor the clip is the problem. The guy could've run to door shot a glass out with A SINGLE SHOT 22 and thrown a stick of dynamite in and blown the whole damm building down. I will say again if the justine went hand in hand with crime, the crime rate would drop dramatically. Anything short of real justice for those committing these crimes is just a bandage on a cut that WILL bleed again and again and again. Its common sense as you said in one of your earlier posts.

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