PKC Large Pack Hunts

[Dunbar Family Kennel]

We are going to start having PKC Large Pack Hunts in Mulberry Arkansas the first of the year. Is there anybody in surrounding states interested in coming down and trying it out? 4 hours of running on swamp rabbits

[toldyouso]

Thats what i am talking about

[Rowco Beagle Kennels]

How will it operate rules wise, judges, etc?

[rockhilldog]

We are very excited to announce the new PKC Large Pack format! The first hunts will be held in Jackson, OH and Mulberry, AR in January. We are 120% committed to the PKC Hound & Hunter program, this is an addition for our members and clubs to enjoy if they so choose. We feel this will also appeal to hunters who have not yet tried PKC. Members will be able to enter multiple dogs at one event and still have the opportunity to have a say in the cast. We feel this initial set of Large Pack rules will promote an overall hunting dog. As with anything new, we expect a certain amount of change will be required once this gets off the ground. We will take rule change proposals until the end of July and then a Rules Committee will be assembled. The payout chart is set up to reward a dog for every 5 entries, up to 50 entries. Only the top 10 will be paid out with 50 or more entries. More details on the program will be announced in the December edition of the Rabbit Hunter. I would like to thank Jim McGuire for all of his help with establishing this new format!

You can view the PKC Large Pack Manual at the following website:

http://www.prohound.com/images2/bg_lgepackformat.pdf

Please contact myself, 479-787-0250, rockhilldog@hotmail.com or Lance Spivey, 615-388-0139, lok1985@rocketmail.com, or Connie Young, 740-222-1488, conniey63@yahoo.com or Jim McGuire, 740-412-7907, jmcguire14@gmail.com with any questions or if your club would like to schedule their first PKC Large Pack Event.

Thanks,

Tony Kildow
PKC Beagle Division Director
PKC "The Place To Be"

[Rowco Beagle Kennels]

Thanks for the explanation. I made a quick read of the rules. Still not sure exactly how it will operate because there is a lot to learn. Sounds like a lot of little pack scoring philosophy with the addition of speed and drive and the 4 hour casts. Also, if I understood, this will be totally different from ARHA Big Pack in that it is not an HGA scoring system. Also dogs cannot measure up to 16" as in big pack. Both of the early hunts will be too far away for us but I am interested to see how it goes. Bobby

[JCM]

Thanks for the explanation. I made a quick read of the rules. Still not sure exactly how it will operate because there is a lot to learn. Sounds like a lot of little pack scoring philosophy with the addition of speed and drive and the 4 hour casts. Also, if I understood, this will be totally different from ARHA Big Pack in that it is not an HGA scoring system. Also dogs cannot measure up to 16" as in big pack. Both of the early hunts will be too far away for us but I am interested to see how it goes. Bobby

I think this takes some of the best parts of all formats. Dogs will be scored on Speed and Drive like ARHA Big Pack and PKC Hound and Hunter. Strikes and jumps will be scored similar to ARHA Little Pack. Checks will be scored similar to AKC Large Pack and ARHA LP. Scoring will be done by 3 man teams of judges like PKC Hound and Hunter. When you put it all together, hopefully it will be a way to get the best overall hound in four hours of running. And a lot of guys are going to win some $$$

On January 21 & 22, OHBC in Jackson, Ohio will be holding Hound and Hunter hunts in the morning, and Large Pack in the afternoon. There will be a lot of details coming up, but I can tell you this will be a great weekend of competition and fun.

Bobby, schedule a road trip to Ohio and come up. We would be glad to have you!

[Rowco Beagle Kennels]

Thanks for the invitation. We have run all the formats you mentioned except AKC but some of our dogs have placed in AKC Mid West handled by others. Johnny and I have thought for a long time that all the formats had some things that were needed to really pick the better dog on a given day. However, those who know us know that I am a Pastor and it has become increasingly difficult for me to travel a distance that did not allow me to be home on Sunday. Also, being honest, the winning of the money is not an incentive to me. I only ran the PKC and earned the money because that is the way the championships are determined. I own a real female (Smokie Holler Jill, ROWCO Hollerin Jill) that came from Frank Coleman with money on her and won a couple of PKC hunts after I bought her. She is just a few dollars shy of champion but I have not been able to get to the hunts. Wish you guys well in your new venture. Lance S is also a very good friend of ours so we know many of you all already. Bobby (ROWCO)

[dawg182]

Sounds like a little pack hunt with more dogs, Gonna be hard to get the best dog with the scoring system y'all have in place. The big pack and pkc hunters I have talked with are not interested, but good luck with it.

[beagler80]

Sounds like a little pack hunt with more dogs, Gonna be hard to get the best dog with the scoring system y'all have in place. The big pack and pkc hunters I have talked with are not interested, but good luck with it.

Not saying your wrong because no one has tried it yet, but how do you figure it to be a little pack hunt with more dogs? Little Pack doesnt run for 4 hours, you have to wait 15 seconds to score a check in little pack and little pack doesn't score speed and drive....just wondered how you came to that conclusion?....I think running 4 hours you have a lot better chance of the cream rising to the top, and the dogs will weed themselves out, guess we will see.

[dawg182]

Scoring is very similar, not exact. There is a reason big pack fox hunters used HGA, it levels the playing field between fast dogs that don't hunt much and slower dogs that hunt and jump lots if rabbits. I'm not denouncing the new format, simply saying I haven't heard any good response to it. It may take off and become the greatest thing ever, if it does then you can say 'I told you so'. If it does then that will be good, if not then that will be good too. Just trying to express opinions on it, that is all.

[beagler80]

I'm not saying your wrong either, our opinions just differ, guess that is what this board is here for though..

[dawg182]

Yep...spirited discussion is fine with me as long as we recognize that not everyone will agree with us.

[JCM]

Scoring is very similar, not exact. There is a reason big pack fox hunters used HGA, it levels the playing field between fast dogs that don't hunt much and slower dogs that hunt and jump lots if rabbits. I'm not denouncing the new format, simply saying I haven't heard any good response to it. It may take off and become the greatest thing ever, if it does then you can say 'I told you so'. If it does then that will be good, if not then that will be good too. Just trying to express opinions on it, that is all.

Willie, I can understand your loyalty to ARHA Big Pack and how you might prefer that scoring system. After all, you have participated and been one of the main guys in ARHA BP for a long time. I appreciate the fact that you took time to read the new PKC Large Pack rules, evaluate them, and compare them.

As you know OHBC tried some ARHA Big Pack. One of the biggest problems we had with it was that a lot of the people involved felt like the best dog didn't win due to the scoring system. At one hunt, my dad had his worst jump dog score hunting every hour (scored the most of all of our dogs). Why? Because he was always where the judges could see him.

As we wrote the rules for PKC Large Pack, one of the things we discussed at length was the scoring system and Highest General Average. We purposely moved away from the format that came from fox hunting trials. It seemed like it just didn't work that well for beagles.

From my experience, too often a dog didn't get scored for hunting in the first hour because it is out away from everyone searching for a rabbit. If it doesn't get that first hour's score, it can never make it up. Not getting the hunting score means not placing towards the top in HGA. So it seemed like the dogs that often hunted hardest didn't get seen, so they didn't have a chance to win.

The way the PKC Large Pack rules are set up, dogs are rewarded for strikes and jumps. They are also scored on checks and speed and drive. This should help reward the best jump dogs and get the best all around rabbit hound as the winner. Time will tell how well this system will work, but I am extremely excited about the upcoming hunts.

I would like to see you come up and join us for our hunts in January. It would be great to have someone with your experience help and give feedback, once you have tried out the scoring system.

[toldyouso]

For the most part people buck change and time will tell. We all know it is going to take some work and there will be changes that will have to be made to prefect this format but we will find a way to make it work. There r alot of great houndsman that R floating this way toward PKC. I like it alot and think it will be very interesting to see how it turns out. I do not want it to fail i would wheather see it become very sucessful. We already have the spider in the glass syndrome happening here but i do not think it will matter too many people looking for change in this great sport of beagling and it might as well be people like jim tony toby connie and so many others that make the change. I have talked to people from ARHA UKC and even AKC that our either trying PKC or have already jumped ship. Out with the old and in with the new is what i say. Cut them loose and let them roll. Talley Ho. LOL

[dawg182]

Jim as I said I am not denouncing the new format, just In the conversations I've had people are skeptical at best ofthe changes y'all have made. I never said I wouldn't try it and I am looking for new formats to see if there is one that suits me better than arha big pack.

To your scoring problem... There are problems with any system. U just have to decide what you are willing to live with. As far as loyalties go I am loyal to myself, my dogs and my friends when it comes to beagling. It is hard to get away from a system that in my mind is tried and true if judges do their jobs and are honest. We are gonna run every chance we get whether we are going to a trial or not.

I will keep the date in mind.