obama guys

[Rabbithoundjb]

Well you dont have more of the same, you have much worse.

[2500 HD]

gentlemen you can call me names or whatever, even antichrist, if you didn't know anybetter, but the bottom line is that America spoke, and its not your ideaology they wanted...you can look up all the bias media your little heart can muster, and talk a loota bs but as far as the truth you'll never find it! I hope Rush Limbaugh is your corner man, and he keeps talking like he has for 30yrs...for as long as he is your spokesperson, you haven't got a chance of winning an election. and how many times have I told you that I didn't vote for Obama, but he could never screw it up any worse than the idiot you put in office?

Hey AC who did you vote for? What idiot were you trying to get into office?

neither one 2500, but you probaly voted the McCain and Palin ticket, but I didn't want to have more of the same...

Then IMO if you didn't vote/voice last november, you obviously don't care or have much to say about what is happening to our country. When you stand back and do nothing you don't deserve to have your say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DoubleEagle]

But hey if you believe America was made great by individuals lets forget about the Bill of Rights.



This statement shows YOUR total ignorance of what the Bill of Rights is and does...America WAS made great by individuals so much so that the Bill of Rights spells out RIGHTS for INDIVIDUALS...not groups. Look at them again, the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom for individuals to ASSEMBLE, freedom to practice religion of their choice...all individual rights, not collective.


Thanks for trying, come back when you have more bearing.



Tony

Been away awhile but I have to wonder just how many individuals can assemble before you call it a group Tony. Come to think of it... I can't think of very many one-man religions either. Now that being said I have to wonder why you think those collective rights were made by individuals, for individuals. Clearly it was written to protect the rights of the many, not the few. America is a democracy founded by a group to protect a larger group. Thanks for replying but when you take a small section of a post and start mincing words, Tony, it shows just who has lost their compass.

[DoubleEagle]

DoubleEagle I am not on here to bash anyone intentionally and I would forget about Johnson,Carter and Clinton if these liberals would blame Bush for what he is responsible for, I accept he made mistakes and is not perfect but I will not allow him to be blamed for things just because the air went out while he was president. I run into problems at work everyday that I try to fix that I had nothing to do with causeing. No one person or even a group can catch everything before it breaks. I to like to go find the facts as best that I can. I believe in blaming the responsible person or people, period. I am all for discussing what Obama is doing or not doing.

Thank's JB. I can't really remember what Johnson did besides pardon Nixon. Carter was weak militarily and strong diplomatically. Clinton got a hummer but was great for the economy. Bush didn't armor Hummer's and, well, we see the results of his economic genius. Now I am assuming that last part will get a well-reasoned argument from you. (Thank God)

But I am not here to argue the past. After all what would be the point since it is just that... the past, and it cannot be changed.

However, what I am seeing from many of the die-hards is a collective doom-and-gloom attitude on one hand while firmly believing we have the right, as Americans, to succeed on the other. But the American economy isn't like that. The American economy runs, in part, on pure speculation. Which business is going to do well, and the people who buy into those business' is based on confidence. Confidence that the business will continue to do well ensures that people put money into those business'... which in turn helps those business' do well.
But when people hear, on a daily basis, some talking head screaming that the sky is falling... it hurts that confidence, makes them sit on their money, and virtually ensures those business' fail. Conversly those same people who hold onto that doom-and-gloom attitude like pictures of a lost lover firmly believe they have the right to hurt the American economy with their relatively useless whining. Has complaining ever solved a problem directly? No... the people who make the effort to fix the problem are the solution.

We, as a Nation, have accomplished some great things but nothing lasts forever. It isn't pretty out there. It's time for those who say it cannot be done to shut up and get out of the way of those who are doing it.

[TC]

We, as a Nation, have accomplished some great things but nothing lasts forever. It isn't pretty out there. It's time for those who say it cannot be done to shut up and get out of the way of those who are doing it.

The American economy runs, in part, on pure speculation. Which business is going to do well, and the people who buy into those business' is based on confidence. Confidence that the business will continue to do well ensures that people put money into those business'... which in turn helps those business' do well.

Reference: A letter from the Boss:

To All My Valued Employees,

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a Back Story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see an d hear... Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.


However, what you don't see is the BACK STORY :

I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, someday, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations... you never realize the Back Story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bailout all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.

Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.

Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand ..... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.

When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine... Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.

So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.

If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I'll fire you and your coworkers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done... I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....

Signed, THE BOSS

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

[DoubleEagle]

Now see TC there is only one thing I have to say about that one... Business' already have shut down their operations and moved overseas. Why? Because they were in a country that not only allowed them to do that but made it easier by introducing one Free Trade Agreement after another. Now you can't be saying they were taxed all that excessively by G.W. are you?
Yet people wanted me to vote for John McCain who has voted YES on every single Free Trade Agreement. People expected me to ignore the fact that John McCain voted NO every single time a hike in America's minimum wage was introduced. And if that is not enough... John McCain is on record as one of the Co-sponsors of NAFTA.
Now I appreciate the time you took copying and pasting that here. But I cannot ignore the facts. Business's have moved because John McCain voted to make it easier for them to move.

John McCain:
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Bill S. 3569 ; vote # 2006-190 on Jun 29, 2006)
Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Bill HR 3045 ; vote # 2005-209 on Jul 28, 2005)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Bill S.1417/HR 2739 ; vote # 2003-318 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Bill S.1416/HR 2738 ; vote # 2003-319 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Bill HJRES51 ; vote number 2001-291 on Oct 3, 2001)
Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (Bill HR.434 ; vote number 2000-98 on May 11, 2000)

His pro-free-trade record dates all the way back to 1993, when he supported NAFTA. McCain also supported Trade Promotion Authority in 1997 and 2002, during both the Clinton and Bush administrations. During his time in the Senate, the Arizona Republican has supported every major piece of trade legislation, including controversial measures like CAFTA and Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China.

I'll be honest with you... I did not like my choices last year. But when it came right down to it I didn't have a choice. It was either vote for the man with no record or vote for a man who has gone on record time and time again voting against America's working class. Now if we had put someone out there like Dick Lugar it would have been an easy choice. But then again maybe I am biased.

[TC]

yup I have to Agree With you on McCain.
but I also had to look at the good along with the bad and I Didnt like either!!!!!
But I liked the Idea of a recordable record over the unknown or not knowing at all!!!!
At least With McCain We knew what to expect...AND who the Puppet Masters were!!!

Now you can't be saying they were taxed all that excessively by G.W. are you?

And YES I can Say that.....
but then again I am all for ONE tax.
but it aint so good Either is it?
In truth I really Dont have any idea of What we can Do to make it better at this time I just know that What THEY are doing now Aint gonna work Either..
A lot of BIG corps are getting RICH off of the Middle to poor..
Now dont get me Wrong I aint against a person or persons getting rich but if WE are footin the bill lets see Something in return for it..
Why Should a corporate officer make a million a year Do they do any more for their money than the Fella Down the line ????
And I SURE wish I could get a few hundred thousand for getting Fired or runnin a Co into the ground....
I Guess What I am talking about here is the Small Business owner Who puts his Blood into a business and then the Gov can Come along and Say HEY yer makin A mint We want our part!!! What right do they have to do this?
A lot of this to me Smells of Taxation Without representation to me..
Now I could be Wrong have been before and Will be again...
I like a lot of Others i am Sure am just frustrated with having to foot the bill for all those that Cannot and Will not get out and work and Expect the Government to give it to them..
Frustrated With the Government telling us When and How we gotta live.
just FRUSTRATED I guess..
Do I know the Answer I have to Say No I dont!! I Do know that it is Time We as a people Took back Control of Something that we know is out of Control and WE know it is...

Accountability Would be a Good place to Start I guess!! not just in Business and banking but in the Government also and Especially in Government!!!!

I Aint Saying that I totally Disagree With SOME of Obamas Goals just cannot Agree with the Way he is going about it..
one Area that I like on the Stimulus Package is his reclamation project for the infastructure it has proven to Work and we get something in return for it better roadways ect Worked for the CCC Why not now.
BUT it needs Tweaked
Put all those that have lost thier Jobs Due to Corporate greed ect back to Work FIRST
must be a US Citizen or be legal or you Dont Work...SHOW in a detailed accounting of all Company's involved Where the money is going ect...
Well Enough rambling for now...
Do i have the Answers
NO
but I betcha a few of us TOGETHER could COME Up WITH SOME....
I Do know that when the Day Comes when All have had enough and decide to march against those that Will not represent the people as they Should be represented I will shoulder up and go....

[Rabbithoundjb]

DoubleEagle I can see you are a reseacher and reader also, I can appreciate that. I will start with Johnson, I am reasonably sure Gerald Ford actually pardoned Nixon. My reference is that Johnson privatized Fannie Mae and that he and his wife were quilty of the government contract abuse during vietnam as Bush/Cheney in Iraq, my point being both parties take advantage of tax payers money. Carter I am not going to bash, all I will say is he was a bad president, he has earned some respect since leaving office simply because he is one of the best humanitarians in our history. You are right about McCain, he is a supporter of globlazation and free trade. I was not a McCain guy originally but I feel based on his spending philosophy and his military experience, he was the best choice with the state the country is in and being a conservative Obama goes against all of my beliefs and principles. You are also right that I am going to challenge you on the Clinton/Bush issue. I believe the drivers for the state our economy is in is as follows, the rising oil prices= gas skyrocketed driving everything up, look at dog food for instance it jumped 7,8 dollars a bag, groceries etc. The banking failure and the collapse of wall street.

Look at the piece by 60 minutes and you know what/ who caused the oil price hike. Look at the community reinvestment act and you will know who/what caused the banks to fail and greed is what caused wall street to fail. from the resarch I have done the gas prices and the banking failure point back to Clintons legislature. I have no problem blaming Bush for the war,the expanding of government, The deficit, he was a liberal spender but thats not what got us here. Had the gas prices not soared, putting people in binds and the banking industry not failed, stopping cash flow, and wall street not tanked we would not be where we are and I cant find any legislation connecting Bush to it, if you can I will admit I am wrong. I am only one person and it is impossible for me to find every fact.

[TC]

John McCain:
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Bill S. 3569 ; vote # 2006-190 on Jun 29, 2006)
Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Bill HR 3045 ; vote # 2005-209 on Jul 28, 2005)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Bill S.1417/HR 2739 ; vote # 2003-318 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Bill S.1416/HR 2738 ; vote # 2003-319 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Bill HJRES51 ; vote number 2001-291 on Oct 3, 2001)
Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (Bill HR.434 ; vote number 2000-98 on May 11, 2000)

Well if you go and look you can see where Obama stood on these very same issues.....

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archi ... 5_and.html

[S.R.Patch]

Small business is caught in the middle just like middle class is caught in the middle.(guess they had to draw the line somewhere)
We have the two extremes that are making out in this environment, the rich business that abused the system and broke the trust, and the lazy that have bled off the system allong.
I don't get to upset with the threats of "I'll take my ball and go play somewhere else" because I learned one thing growing older and that is, "if you disappear tomorrow, someone or something is waiting to step-up and take your place when opportunity shows itself, if there is a need, someone will meet it.
The squeeze is on, if your model is not flexible enough to contract or expand with it, it breaks. The only thing you can rely on staying constant is change. Nothing in life is fair and we're all getting a big dose of that now. You think your doing everything right to the best of your ability then, Bam! Life is a series of do-overs, you learn your lessons as you go along then all the sudden, your out of time...Gives more meaning to "it's not what you take, it's what you leave behind".
There are people that have the fiber to roll with the punches and those that don't. I think the fear in the air will bring out the good ideas as we go along, That seem to be what they're doing (building the plan as we go along), it's interesting to watch them try to get all the dirt off the baby without throwing it out with the bath water...

[TC]

Small business is caught in the middle just like middle class is caught in the middle.(guess they had to draw the line somewhere)
We have the two extremes that are making out in this environment, the rich business that abused the system and broke the trust, and the lazy that have bled off the system allong.
I don't get to upset with the threats of "I'll take my ball and go play somewhere else" because I learned one thing growing older and that is, "if you disappear tomorrow, someone or something is waiting to step-up and take your place when opportunity shows itself, if there is a need, someone will meet it.
The squeeze is on, if your model is not flexible enough to contract or expand with it, it breaks. The only thing you can rely on staying constant is change. Nothing in life is fair and we're all getting a big dose of that now. You think your doing everything right to the best of your ability then, Bam! Life is a series of do-overs, you learn your lessons as you go along then all the sudden, your out of time...Gives more meaning to "it's not what you take, it's what you leave behind".
There are people that have the fiber to roll with the punches and those that don't. I think the fear in the air will bring out the good ideas as we go along, That seem to be what they're doing (building the plan as we go along), it's interesting to watch them try to get all the dirt off the baby without throwing it out with the bath water...

Well Said Patch, Can't agree with you more on this one! I also think that we as the public need to quit jumping into the blame game and focus on what we can do. We know that they will roll out things that are going to hurt our pocket book, but there is things looking forward as individuals we can do to survive what is to come. Lower your personal debt, save some cash for emergency use, set back an emergency fund. It don't always have to be a whole lot but any thing is better then nothing. Prepare for the worst and when it don't come rejoice you have saved a little in the long run and can do something you might have never been able to do before and if the worst comes you maybe more prepared then others out there living from day to day with very little care in the world.

Financially you can always help your self by putting in a garden storing foods, canning freezing and so forth. Not everything has to be store bought. Yes it is a little more work, but when those jars are sealed and on the counter by the end of the day they sure do look pretty and you feel a great sense of accomplishment.

We can't always worry about the sap that has his hand out for the free ride and we can't cry over the spilled milk, but we can plan ahead and prevent some things.

[DoubleEagle]

John McCain:
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Bill S. 3569 ; vote # 2006-190 on Jun 29, 2006)
Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Bill HR 3045 ; vote # 2005-209 on Jul 28, 2005)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Bill S.1417/HR 2739 ; vote # 2003-318 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Bill S.1416/HR 2738 ; vote # 2003-319 on Jul 31, 2003)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Bill HJRES51 ; vote number 2001-291 on Oct 3, 2001)
Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (Bill HR.434 ; vote number 2000-98 on May 11, 2000)

Well if you go and look you can see where Obama stood on these very same issues.....

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archi ... 5_and.html

Well TC I am near the bottom of the page and so far I have seen two entries regarding President Obama's stance on Free Trade. One is for Bill S. 3569, the other is H. R. 5684. It's the same FTA in the Senate (Bill S.) and the House (H.R.) Essentially one FTA to a country who happens to be one of few American Allies in the Persian Gulf region (along with it's neighbors, Saudia Arabia, Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates... all 3 of which border our fourth ally, Kuwait)

So how does this differ from NAFTA, CAFTA, the FTA's with Singapore, Chile, and more importantly China? Simply put the FTA with Oman helped shore up weakening support in a region where we had Combat Troops. However I don't think that excuses John McCain from the other 5. Normally I would talk longer but it's off to work for me.

[TC]

http://maplight.org/map/us/bill/40617/d ... ail-292185 Yes

Bill HJRES51 ; vote number 2001-291 on Oct 3, 2001 Before his time!

Bill HR 3045 ; vote # 2005-209 on Jul 28, 2005 Voted NO

Bill S.1417/HR 2739 ; vote # 2003-318 on Jul 31, 2003 Before his time!

Bill HR.434 ; vote number 2000-98 on May 11, 2000 Before his time!

So his stance is no the fence by this record.... But what I was trying to get across is they both have skeletons in their closets and neither one is innocent. As far as skeletons I am sure Mr. Obama has more in his closet then Al Capone, it is just that all the dirt hasn't been uncovered yet...