Joe legal vs Jose Illegal

[Alabama John]

I don't know how it works for home builders as they can get a license here and become a contractor for a $100.00 license

What I am familiar with that you obviously are not, is a real General Contractor or what's called a Prime Contractor by the Federal Government. Schooling, test, experience, financing, bonding, etc. required.

On all Federal projects, with the specs and plans comes the MINIMUM wage rate, includes benefits too, required for every craft that will be working on that project.
It varies a lot from area to area..

Every subcontractor must turn in his employee list to the project inspector that stays on the job from when you get there in the morning to when you leave at evening. He or she will check each employee out by how many hours were workerd daily, and you have to turn in weekly certified payroll checks on each one to prove that they received what they are supposed to get. Each subcontractor must do the same on their employees too.

In some areas, our folks make more than what's required, and other areas, like California, we have to give them much more. Of course, the jobs that pay more are the ones everyone but a few want to work at.

[Tim H]

You are looking only at Federally contracted construction jobs. That's one fraction of the jobs out there and even those have different oversight in different regions.

Again, we ALL know how this is happening and that it IS happening.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

I JUST PASSED FOUR ROAD CREWS TODAY ,ONE GUY SITTING IN THE TRUCK MIGHT HAVE BEEN LEGAL ALL THE REST OF THEM WHO KNOW'S ,BUT I WILL SAY THAT IF YOU TRY TO TALK WITH THEM YOU WANT GET TO,, OR OFFER THEM SOMETHING TO DRINK, WHEN THEY COME BY YOUR PLACE SEE WHAT HAPPENS,,THESE CONTRACTORS HAVE TAKEN ABOUT ALL IF NOT ALL THE STATE JOBS FOR GRASS CUTTING AND TREE TRIMING ALONG THE ROADS,,,

[Alabama John]

The Federal oversight is the same nationwide and so are the rules. WE have worked all over the USA.

Just about any BIG project, whoever is building it, is funded someway in part or in whole with federal money and what I said above must be followed to the letter. If Federal money is used on any construction project, there are strict wage rates.

I agree in grass cutting, trees, etc, it must be that way all over as it sure is here in Alabama.

Hug your Contractor as it will be as always, the construction business that will pull us out of this mess eventually. It always has and history will prove it. To prevent a depression, the Feds will throw money at construction and create so many jobs through projects put off for years. Its already started and will increase by next Summer after the federal year ends Sept. and the new budget is approved and funded by next february.

[Rabbithoundjb]

John I normally agree with your posts but not this time because construction is only a small part of the economy, it is true that constuction will create some jobs but you dont need roads, bridges, houses, cars and so on without buisnesses, industries, lond term employment,everybody cant do construction work it is only a piece of recovering.

My point is the funds will run out for projects quickly without the tax paying public having jobs.

[Alabama John]

I certainly agree with your last statement. Right to the point!!!

I think this depression will last another 4-5 years before it gets really better. So far, folks are still living on savings and credit cards and when that runs out, watch out for real hard times.

My point I wanted to make is after every bad downturn the Federal Govt started a program to do just what you said, create jobs.

WPA camps, CCC camps etc. That's what I expect to see this time too.

How did they get the money back then, by creating jobs and that created in turn tax money. Now days, they'll just run the printing presses longer!!! But, that's another story for another day.

Now all is topsy turvey and third generation car dealerships are closing all around us. No work for so many. You only hear how many receiving unemployment checks, not how many already got their limit and have been kicked off and still out of work or those out of work not signed up, or worse, those that had good paying jobs or businesses and now work at fast food places for 1/4 or less the pay. They show up as happily employed so its far worse than being told.

Roads, bridges, old buildings that must be maintained, airports, all infrastructure in America is way behind on construction and in bad shape. When construction is going, it creates much more than construction jobs and so lots of taxes. Look at the subs and suppliers involved. More in the construction field than any other. Folks making money spend money for all sorts of things so all businesses thrive and pay taxes.

It worked in our history.

[Tim H]

The Federal oversight is the same nationwide and so are the rules. WE have worked all over the USA.

Just about any BIG project, whoever is building it, is funded someway in part or in whole with federal money and what I said above must be followed to the letter. If Federal money is used on any construction project, there are strict wage rates.

I guess the following stories were made up by the news agencies then. This is just 2 examples I found within about 10 seconds. Bet there are alot more. We ALL know this is going on even on Federal Construction sites.

Orlando Building
Posted: 12:09 pm EDT April 27, 2005Updated: 4:15 pm EDT April 27, 2005
ORLANDO, Fla. -- More than 60 illegal aliens were handcuffed and loaded onto buses Wednesday morning. Some cooperated, while others had to be hunted down, and you've been paying for them to work.
The men are led away after the agents raided the downtown Orlando building.

The sting went down at the new federal courthouse building being built in downtown Orlando. Federal agents say the raid took weeks of planning, but they managed to get in and out of the construction site within two hours.
The legal workers were back on the job Wednesday afternoon, but one-third to one-half of their workforce is gone.


AP
yesterday the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency netted thirty-three suspected illegal aliens working on the site of a federal courthouse in Richmond.


It took 10 seconds to find these examples. Want to bet there are alot more?

[Pine Mt Beagles]

I AGREE WITH RABBIT HOUND ON MOST OF HIS POST HE IS RIGHT ON TARGET..

I think this depression will last another 4-5 years before it gets really better. So far, folks are still living on savings and credit cards and when that runs out, watch out for real hard times.

BUT I THINK THIS STATEMEANT IS RIGHT ON ALSO,,SOME REALLY GOOD POINT'S FROM BOTH YOU GUY'S --------------

[Rabbithoundjb]

John this is a different time in the history of this country, too many different agendas, too many people sucking the system, I think it would be a conservative number to say that 25% of the over 16 out of school public is not paying taxes and in fact leaching from the tax payers. Dont get me wrong I have no problem supporting the elderly or the disabled that have worked or served our country or both.

In the past John the whole country was growing including industry, we now have jobs leaving the country as fast as they are being created maybe faster with the population still growing. I have said this before and I still believe it, bad legislation got us here and until that is corrected this is going to be a revolving door. UP AND DOWN, BACK AND FORTH. Weakening the country slowly and gradually.

[Alabama John]

Rabbit hound

I certainly agree with you on that. and because of it, we're in for some tough times. I have no faith at all in our government as it is now to overcome this economy.
I do feel though that when it gets worse and it will, the folks that have never seen hard times as adults will have to seriously revolt and then changes will come. The populace will have to wake up first.

I enjoy your posts so keep it up!

Tim
Thanks, You just proved what I was saying about Federal projects. Violations were seen and reported. Action was taken. Arrests were made. I'll bet my pay that it all was caused by the bogus payroll reports and bogus Social security card numbers the inspector checked out. He has no enforcement authority, but sure has the number to those that do!!!

Great, more jobs for the legal folks. We have always operated with legals and applaud the arresting of the illegals as it sure levels the playing field for us when we bid a project using all good 'ol citizens of the USA.

[Tim H]

So because there are PROVEN cases of illegals working in LARGE numbers at federal work sites, you think your statement that it doesn't happen is validated?

[TC]

John this Goes back to my original post.
of these 30 % REQUIRED by the Feds For the State highway projects how many are actually legal???
Oregon is a sanctuary State So More illegals there than A lot of other States.
I truly hope that the inspectors and legal Workers Will Actually pay attention and turn in those that Are not Working legally maybe this will open it up to the Contractors and Subcontractors that Are actually law Abiding and Actually Care about their Employees and their Family's...We need enforcement of the laws..Those that were Designed to help And Protect legitimate Workers anyways...
Glad to See you posting again
here is Some interesting information..
our gov is aware that this is happening i Do Agree that each State has its right as provided in the Constitution to govern itself Until that time that State law Supersedes federal law..

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/fi ... -3-192.pdf

Today’s sanctuary cities and states ignore U.S.
immigration laws by employing a “don’t ask-don’t
tell” policy for government employees. Some
governmental agencies go so far as to forbid their
employees to inquire about citizenship status. State
and local politicians who advocate immigration
sanctuary share motivation with those national
politicians who routinely vote against strengthening
enforcement of immigration laws. Republicans and
Democrats, exhibiting a reelection-at-any-cost
philosophy, respond to their need for votes and their
constituents’ greed for low-cost labor.
Methods to protect immigrant lawbreakers vary
depending on municipal resolutions, city executive
orders, law enforcement departmental orders, city
commission recommendations, governors’ orders, or
general orders of “no cooperation with federal
authorities.” Some 70 localities have promulgated
sanctuary policies; but, on a larger scale, most local
and state governments simply ignore their illegal alien
populations – refusing to distinguish them from
citizens. Sanctuary policies exist through official fiat
or through sub-rosa non-enforcement of federal laws.
Politicians hide behind arguments that enforcement of
immigration laws is a federal obligation (not their job)
or that reporting “illegal aliens” to federal authorities
infringes on states’ rights. Cities and states that ignore
their illegal aliens then turn around and seek federal
monies to subsidize the additional schools,
environmental remediation, drinking water, electricity,
helth care, police and fire protection, and social
services. These include Social Security, Medicare, and
Medicaid benefits demanded by increasing numbers of
undocumented immigrants.
The officials who govern America’s sanctuary
cities and states act under color of title or law. Among
them are governors, mayors, elected or appointed
commissioners, law enforcement officers, and judicial
officers who purposely and knowingly defy U. S.
immigrations laws. Such officials choose to ignore the
possibility of being indicted on felony charges, yet
their policies shield illegal aliens, including dangerous
criminals, from rightful detention and/or deportation.
Impact of Sanctuary Policies
Immigration sanctuary affects national security,
criminal justice, local and national economics,
environmental protection, and national health and
welfare programs. Advocates shout down any attempt
to reveal the actual impact of undocumented
immigrants – whose numbers I estimate at 30 million
inside the United States. This figure is not far-fetched,
if Los Angeles alone has 2 million undocumented
workers, as reported by Rev. Steve Niskanen, pastor of
that city’s Our Lady Queen of Angels Church.
According to Time (September 2004), over 4,000
illegal aliens walk across the 375-mile border between
Mexico and Arizona in a single day. The U.S. Border
Patrol, which reported 1.2 million apprehensions along
the entire Mexico-U.S. border in FY 2004 (up from
931,557 in 2003), estimates that 3 to 5 aliens gain
illegal entry for each one apprehended. These numbers
apply only to the southern border. They don’t account
for illegal entries at the Canada-U.S. border or along
the Atlantic and Pacific coasts; nor do they include
visa overstays or those entering with fraudulent
documents, as did the 9/11 terrorists.
The federal government, however, continues to
low-ball estimates of undocumented immigrants
(illegal aliens) in the United States. I have been
compiling numbers in support of the 30-million
estimate for the past 15 years, and each year the
federal government raises its estimate but only
slightly. “Convince a man against his will, he’s of the
same opinion still” – old Gaelic proverb.

[Alabama John]

Thanks TC
I always have enjoyed you inquisitive and educational posts.

I don't know about State, County or City projects I only speak to what I know and that's from being a Federal Prime Contractor for about 50 years and seeing security change so because of illegal aliens.

Example is: on every Federal project all our men and those of all our subs and suppliers before even being allowed on the Military base or any Federal facility, including me, were fingerprinted, photoed, and had to fill out a form giving their SS number, etc. That's the same for each project, there is no permanent approval.

After they and we are approved by the Feds,we all got a badge allowing them to work. not ever allowed until then. Most concrete companies or any local suppliers around that location that you might use already have badges for the employees that will deliver whatever you order to the Federal location or they would have to have all that done too.

No sensible Contractor would start work without an approval from the government that all workers were approved. Otherwise, he would be responsible for hiring illegal aliens and I mean subcontractors too. The penalties are severe, Federal prison time.

A Contractor by letting the Feds do the approving, relieves himself of that responsibility. Only a stupid one would not. He can't possibly know who is and who isn't unless you have known those on the job for many years and know they are citizens. A subcontractor shows up to do sheetrock with 40 men. What resources does the subcontractor or Prime Contractor have available to prove if identities are correct, fingerprints checkout OK or not, or if a SS number is true or false? NONE! There is a cottage industry creating false identities and SS numbers to match, even Drivers licenses. A more thourough Federal check takes a little while and some stupid ones slip by for a while, but, look out, the checking is being done closely, and the Feds come down hard as in Tim's example.