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Novice

an interesting article

Post by Novice »

Just poached this off of another site


:?: March 25, 2003 | home

WHO LIED TO WHOM?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Why did the Administration endorse a forgery about Iraq’s nuclear program?
Issue of 2003-03-31
Posted 2003-03-24
Last September 24th, as Congress prepared to vote on the resolution authorizing President George W. Bush to wage war in Iraq, a group of senior intelligence officials, including George Tenet, the Director of Central Intelligence, briefed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Iraq’s weapons capability. It was an important presentation for the Bush Administration. Some Democrats were publicly questioning the President’s claim that Iraq still possessed weapons of mass destruction which posed an immediate threat to the United States. Just the day before, former Vice-President Al Gore had sharply criticized the Administration’s advocacy of preëmptive war, calling it a doctrine that would replace “a world in which states consider themselves subject to law” with “the notion that there is no law but the discretion of the President of the United States.” A few Democrats were also considering putting an alternative resolution before Congress.

According to two of those present at the briefing, which was highly classified and took place in the committee’s secure hearing room, Tenet declared, as he had done before, that a shipment of high-strength aluminum tubes that was intercepted on its way to Iraq had been meant for the construction of centrifuges that could be used to produce enriched uranium. The suitability of the tubes for that purpose had been disputed, but this time the argument that Iraq had a nuclear program under way was buttressed by a new and striking fact: the C.I.A. had recently received intelligence showing that, between 1999 and 2001, Iraq had attempted to buy five hundred tons of uranium oxide from Niger, one of the world’s largest producers. The uranium, known as “yellow cake,” can be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors; if processed differently, it can also be enriched to make weapons. Five tons can produce enough weapon-grade uranium for a bomb. (When the C.I.A. spokesman William Harlow was asked for comment, he denied that Tenet had briefed the senators on Niger.)

On the same day, in London, Tony Blair’s government made public a dossier containing much of the information that the Senate committee was being given in secret—that Iraq had sought to buy “significant quantities of uranium” from an unnamed African country, “despite having no active civil nuclear power programme that could require it.” The allegation attracted immediate attention; a headline in the London Guardian declared, “african gangs offer route to uranium.”

Two days later, Secretary of State Colin Powell, appearing before a closed hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also cited Iraq’s attempt to obtain uranium from Niger as evidence of its persistent nuclear ambitions. The testimony from Tenet and Powell helped to mollify the Democrats, and two weeks later the resolution passed overwhelmingly, giving the President a congressional mandate for a military assault on Iraq.

On December 19th, Washington, for the first time, publicly identified Niger as the alleged seller of the nuclear materials, in a State Department position paper that rhetorically asked, “Why is the Iraqi regime hiding their uranium procurement?” (The charge was denied by both Iraq and Niger.) A former high-level intelligence official told me that the information on Niger was judged serious enough to include in the President’s Daily Brief, known as the P.D.B., one of the most sensitive intelligence documents in the American system. Its information is supposed to be carefully analyzed, or “scrubbed.” Distribution of the two- or three-page early-morning report, which is prepared by the C.I.A., is limited to the President and a few other senior officials. The P.D.B. is not made available, for example, to any members of the Senate or House Intelligence Committees. “I don’t think anybody here sees that thing,” a State Department analyst told me. “You only know what’s in the P.D.B. because it echoes—people talk about it.”

President Bush cited the uranium deal, along with the aluminum tubes, in his State of the Union Message, on January 28th, while crediting Britain as the source of the information: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” He commented, “Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.”



Then the story fell apart. On March 7th, Mohamed ElBaradei, the director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, in Vienna, told the U.N. Security Council that the documents involving the Niger-Iraq uranium sale were fakes. “The I.A.E.A. has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts, that these documents . . . are in fact not authentic,” ElBaradei said.

One senior I.A.E.A. official went further. He told me, “These documents are so bad that I cannot imagine that they came from a serious intelligence agency. It depresses me, given the low quality of the documents, that it was not stopped. At the level it reached, I would have expected more checking.”

The I.A.E.A. had first sought the documents last fall, shortly after the British government released its dossier. After months of pleading by the I.A.E.A., the United States turned them over to Jacques Baute, who is the director of the agency’s Iraq Nuclear Verification Office.

It took Baute’s team only a few hours to determine that the documents were fake. The agency had been given about a half-dozen letters and other communications between officials in Niger and Iraq, many of them written on letterheads of the Niger government. The problems were glaring. One letter, dated October 10, 2000, was signed with the name of Allele Habibou, a Niger Minister of Foreign Affairs and Coöperation, who had been out of office since 1989. Another letter, allegedly from Tandja Mamadou, the President of Niger, had a signature that had obviously been faked and a text with inaccuracies so egregious, the senior I.A.E.A. official said, that “they could be spotted by someone using Google on the Internet.”

The large quantity of uranium involved should have been another warning sign. Niger’s “yellow cake” comes from two uranium mines controlled by a French company, with its entire output presold to nuclear power companies in France, Japan, and Spain. “Five hundred tons can’t be siphoned off without anyone noticing,” another I.A.E.A. official told me.

This official told me that the I.A.E.A. has not been able to determine who actually prepared the documents. “It could be someone who intercepted faxes in Israel, or someone at the headquarters of the Niger Foreign Ministry, in Niamey. We just don’t know,” the official said. “Somebody got old letterheads and signatures, and cut and pasted.” Some I.A.E.A. investigators suspected that the inspiration for the documents was a trip that the Iraqi Ambassador to Italy took to several African countries, including Niger, in February, 1999. They also speculated that MI6—the branch of British intelligence responsible for foreign operations—had become involved, perhaps through contacts in Italy, after the Ambassador’s return to Rome.

Baute, according to the I.A.E.A. official, “confronted the United States with the forgery: ‘What do you have to say?’ They had nothing to say.”

ElBaradei’s disclosure has not been disputed by any government or intelligence official in Washington or London. Colin Powell, asked about the forgery during a television interview two days after ElBaradei’s report, dismissed the subject by saying, “If that issue is resolved, that issue is resolved.” A few days later, at a House hearing, he denied that anyone in the United States government had anything to do with the forgery. “It came from other sources,” Powell testified. “It was provided in good faith to the inspectors.”

The forgery became the object of widespread, and bitter, questions in Europe about the credibility of the United States. But it initially provoked only a few news stories in America, and little sustained questioning about how the White House could endorse such an obvious fake. On March 8th, an American official who had reviewed the documents was quoted in the Washington Post as explaining, simply, “We fell for it.”



The Bush Administration’s reliance on the Niger documents may, however, have stemmed from more than bureaucratic carelessness or political overreaching. Forged documents and false accusations have been an element in U.S. and British policy toward Iraq at least since the fall of 1997, after an impasse over U.N. inspections. Then as now, the Security Council was divided, with the French, the Russians, and the Chinese telling the United States and the United Kingdom that they were being too tough on the Iraqis. President Bill Clinton, weakened by the impeachment proceedings, hinted of renewed bombing, but, then as now, the British and the Americans were losing the battle for international public opinion. A former Clinton Administration official told me that London had resorted to, among other things, spreading false information about Iraq. The British propaganda program—part of its Information Operations, or I/Ops—was known to a few senior officials in Washington. “I knew that was going on,” the former Clinton Administration official said of the British efforts. “We were getting ready for action in Iraq, and we wanted the Brits to prepare.”

Over the next year, a former American intelligence officer told me, at least one member of the U.N. inspection team who supported the American and British position arranged for dozens of unverified and unverifiable intelligence reports and tips—data known as inactionable intelligence—to be funnelled to MI6 operatives and quietly passed along to newspapers in London and elsewhere. “It was intelligence that was crap, and that we couldn’t move on, but the Brits wanted to plant stories in England and around the world,” the former officer said. There was a series of clandestine meetings with MI6, at which documents were provided, as well as quiet meetings, usually at safe houses in the Washington area. The British propaganda scheme eventually became known to some members of the U.N. inspection team. “I knew a bit,” one official still on duty at U.N. headquarters acknowledged last week, “but I was never officially told about it.”

None of the past and present officials I spoke with were able to categorically state that the fake Niger documents were created or instigated by the same propaganda office in MI6 that had been part of the anti-Iraq propaganda wars in the late nineteen-nineties. (An MI6 intelligence source declined to comment.) Press reports in the United States and elsewhere have suggested other possible sources: the Iraqi exile community, the Italians, the French. What is generally agreed upon, a congressional intelligence-committee staff member told me, is that the Niger documents were initially circulated by the British—President Bush said as much in his State of the Union speech—and that “the Brits placed more stock in them than we did.” It is also clear, as the former high-level intelligence official told me, that “something as bizarre as Niger raises suspicions everywhere.”



What went wrong? Did a poorly conceived propaganda effort by British intelligence, whose practices had been known for years to senior American officials, manage to move, without significant challenge, through the top layers of the American intelligence community and into the most sacrosanct of Presidential briefings? Who permitted it to go into the President’s State of the Union speech? Was the message—the threat posed by Iraq—more important than the integrity of the intelligence-vetting process? Was the Administration lying to itself? Or did it deliberately give Congress and the public what it knew to be bad information?

Asked to respond, Harlow, the C.I.A. spokesman, said that the agency had not obtained the actual documents until early this year, after the President’s State of the Union speech and after the congressional briefings, and therefore had been unable to evaluate them in a timely manner. Harlow refused to respond to questions about the role of Britain’s MI6. Harlow’s statement does not, of course, explain why the agency left the job of exposing the embarrassing forgery to the I.A.E.A. It puts the C.I.A. in an unfortunate position: it is, essentially, copping a plea of incompetence.

The chance for American intelligence to challenge the documents came as the Administration debated whether to pass them on to ElBaradei. The former high-level intelligence official told me that some senior C.I.A. officials were aware that the documents weren’t trustworthy. “It’s not a question as to whether they were marginal. They can’t be ‘sort of’ bad, or ‘sort of’ ambiguous. They knew it was a fraud—it was useless. Everybody bit their tongue and said, ‘Wouldn’t it be great if the Secretary of State said this?’ The Secretary of State never saw the documents.” He added, “He’s absolutely apoplectic about it.” (A State Department spokesman was unable to comment.) A former intelligence officer told me that some questions about the authenticity of the Niger documents were raised inside the government by analysts at the Department of Energy and the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research. However, these warnings were not heeded.

“Somebody deliberately let something false get in there,” the former high-level intelligence official added. “It could not have gotten into the system without the agency being involved. Therefore it was an internal intention. Someone set someone up.” (The White House declined to comment.)

Washington’s case that the Iraqi regime had failed to meet its obligation to give up weapons of mass destruction was, of course, based on much more than a few documents of questionable provenance from a small African nation. But George W. Bush’s war against Iraq has created enormous anxiety throughout the world—in part because one side is a superpower and the other is not. It can’t help the President’s case, or his international standing, when his advisers brief him with falsehoods, whether by design or by mistake.

On March 14th, Senator Jay Rockefeller, of West Virginia, the senior Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, formally asked Robert Mueller, the F.B.I. director, to investigate the forged documents. Rockefeller had voted for the resolution authorizing force last fall. Now he wrote to Mueller, “There is a possibility that the fabrication of these documents may be part of a larger deception campaign aimed at manipulating public opinion and foreign policy regarding Iraq.” He urged the F.B.I. to ascertain the source of the documents, the skill-level of the forgery, the motives of those responsible, and “why the intelligence community did not recognize the documents were fabricated.” A Rockefeller aide told me that the F.B.I. had promised to look into it.


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030331fa_fact1

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Bev
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Post by Bev »

Some things you just have to consider the source.

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Post by bluegrass »

Hey Novice, after wasting my time reading that article, I don't exactly know what you are trying to say?? It is pretty lame to try and lay that on us without any other corroborating evidence, but even further than that, WHO CARES????? Do you really think that anyone on these boards think that this was a fabricated case against Iraq??? Just the way that their country is fighting this war says volumes about their lack of character and their obvious lack of regard for human dignity. Pretending to surrender and then ambushing, killing your own people for surrendering?? Could there be any doubt at all that if given the opportunity to nuke us and obliterate the U.S. they wouldn't do it??? They need to be eliminated if for no other reason than their potential to do us harm in the future. To act after another attack is foolish, to wait for concrete proof of nuclear capabilities such as a mushroom cloud over Los Angeles or Chicago would be the height of stupidity. Better to cut the head off before getting bit I say but who am I but a peace loving American. Tony

Movice

Post by Movice »

Hey bluegrass, I don't disagree with you! I only listed this because of the content of the article. I think that if you read some of my other posts I completely suport our troops. But that doesn't mean that I let my emotions controll my comon scence and search for truth. I don't know if this article has any truth to it or not But it does make an interesting case especialy when one that one senetor that voted to go to war on Iraq is the one that asked for an investigation on the evidence. My personal feelings on this war is that now that we are there we should take it to them as strongly as possibel and get it done and over with other wise we may wind up with another vietnam. where we were ther to help them yet there were people (refugees) beeing rescued that would hand their babies up to our boys with grenades straped to their bodies with a string attached to the pins and at that time they would pull the pin and this was after the war ( Police action) was suposed to be over with. as to their tactics ask your self this one question if the situation was reversed and you were faced with an over whelming force such as our s is would you give up easily or would you do anything it took to try and defend our country? I believe that by your post above you may do whatever it took. to keep our way of life. also remember that we trained those troops for sadam what they are doing we taught them to do. so it shouldn't surprise them. I don't think that we should waste another american life on this war when we have the means to end it even it it is the way we ended the war with japan. this would also send a loud message to the rest of the world that would knowingly harbor terorists. The way they are doing it , it will cost many american lives and in my opinion if there is the slightest incling of truth in that article than we as a free nation need to know and not twenty years from now. as an ex soldier the mer thought of being a pupet and laying my life on the line based on a lie makes my blood boil. How would you feel? I say give them a week to get out and surender and if not nukem all.

wingpatch
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????

Post by wingpatch »

DID one of them anti war protesters put down there sigh and try there hand at typing a bunch of bull crap, If so you should be ashamed of your self. there are people dieing as you are coming up with this kind of crap. Any pr**k that would write that stuff at this time is as low as they come. I know this will probley get pull off the board but i hope you read this before it does. May GOD have merchy on your dumb ass soul If what i say is not true you could delete what you wrote , but i dought you have the decency or the pride.
Last edited by wingpatch on Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by AlabamaSwamper »

Mr. Novice, do you have a family. If so, do you love and care about your family. If so, then do you not worry about those 8500 litters of Anthrax that ol Saddam has refused to had over. What about all that vx or serin gas. Huh, I'm waiting. Atleast you didnt say that we are there to take oil or to finish his father's job and please DONT use that, EVER. I can throw those arguments down the drain real fast. I could care less about his nuclear program because personally I doubt he has one. However, I do worry about all those chemicals and biological weapons that he admitted having, yet, he has no proof of destroying. It cant be that hard to show the inspectors where they did it. I mean, chemicals dont just disappear from the earth. Another thing, why are you a guest. Please dont be a coward. Sign a name to your post. I am personally willing to have any debate on this anytime on here. This war will not turn into another Vietnam and you know it. I hope you are more intelligent than that. I believe you are, so please dont change my opinion. To answer another question, no I would not hide behind my wife or mother. I am a man and I will face anyone, FACE TO FACE. If I die defending my country, then so be it. That would be God's choice and not mine. Those darn ragheads have suppressed those people for 24 years (Saddam took power in '79) and now are using them as shields. That to me is a cowardly act. That shows the kind of people that they are and I have absolutely no respect. WHat about the human shields that are now coming out in support of the war. It didnt take those folks long to realize what kind of regime that was there. I hope you didnt mean what you said about nuken the Iraqis. I agree that our soldiers are the most important lives over there but those darn liberals are the reason that we are so careful when we bomb. This is WAR. Death is a part of war, on both sides. However, nuclear war is not the way for anyone involved. If you want to start another Vietnam, the yes, by all means, drop one on Bagdad. I also want to say thank you for your service to this country, you are another hero for that.
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wingpatch
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????

Post by wingpatch »

I am sorry if any of my friends read the reply i wrote before it was edited, i just got a little carried away.but as i am sure you noticed mistery guest i said my friends, It was writen for you .

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PEACE ACTIVIST ETIQUETTE

Post by AUTMN SKY »

With all of this talk of war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11,2001, and those who support terror. These activists may be alone or in a gathering.....most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette:

1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up
a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas.
They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the
people who did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will
probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian.

2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them
in the nose.

3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very
angry and they may try to hit you, so be careful.

4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only
brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this
matter. Tell them if they are really committed to a nonviolent approach
to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a
solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what
they are saying.

5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are
correct.

6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them
much harder. Square in the nose.

7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the
idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making.

8. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting
victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is
unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost.
We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us
and our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like
these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will
keep getting hit in the nose.

Lesson over, class dismissed :!:

Dogrunner I love you and I am so proud of you. Hurry home so we can run those rabbits :D and get our pups started.......God Bless you and may he keep all our troops safe.

AUTMN SKY

wingpatch
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//////////////SALUTE////////////////

Post by wingpatch »

# 1 peace activist no coward yes,# 2 rabbit no wabbit yes... Sorry i had to correct your s.a. l.o.l. :lol:

Novice

Post by Novice »

My Name is john Antunes and I served in the Navy during the Vietnam war. So you all know I(LET ME REPEAT THIS AGAIN SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT) I SUPORT OUR TROOPS AND WISH THEM ALL HOME SAFELY!!!! Now before some of you start to imply that I'm a peace activist or even someone who said something about coward. the first rule of warefare is to understand you enemy when you fight with emotion more often than not you loose. Some of you gentelmen should try visiting your local veterans' hospitals and spend some time with those veterans from the gulf war as well as from the vietnam war and especialy the later and talk with them sincerly and if you can get them to trust you enough to open up and talk about their experiences ( wich would do them good) you may be shocked at what you will hear about the horors of war. next let me say that I respect your opinion whatever it may be. that is exactely why I served my country without hesatation. And I would do so again if need be. You know something I run across manny people in my every day life that are all gung ho about the war and have forgotten that they refuse to serve our country because it wasn't their thing? But are now very quick to critisize someone with a diffirent view from their own. to be free you must ern it freedom is erned with tolorence and with a part of yourself. I have given and done my part as manny are doing NOW IN IRAQ. How manny of you other than Autum Sky (who is defenitely doing her part ) can say the same. I may not be as articulate as some on this board so I hope I got My view on the subject across well. To close your mind is to be blinded. don't mistake an open mind for lack of suport. And I hope that if any of you run across an article that is interesting you would share it with me. Knoledge is power and ignorance is weekness. Be well all of you and may we all pray for our troops to come home safely. Oh by the way I have allready lost a brother in law to the srvice of our country and at this moment have anephew in the marines.

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Post by AlabamaSwamper »

Novice, I will say to you again, Thank you. Yes I tried to serve but had a knee problem and there was no way to pass the physical. Its alright now but hey, I work for the Army. Since going to work for the army I have had the pleasure of meeting several Vietnam vets and have heard some stories. I also had an uncle that took a bullet in while storming the beaches in France. I imagine he wouldnt be happy today with those French. I never said you were against anyone or a peace activist. I just think by looking at the facts and the past that this is a legitimate war. I am not a war hawk, I hate war. I have several friends and family in the military and a few in the gulf right now. I have a friend that is a Seal and there is no telling where he is. They all think it is a legit war because they said they know stuff we will never know about Saddam. Now for the name thing. I have witnessed to many folks that are to afraid to put a name with a post. I respect you even more that you did. We just hate for folks to do that on any board and not put a name next to it. You are the first one to do so that I have seen after the fact. For that, I say thank you.
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Post by Bev »

Ya know, I hesitated at first about putting this forum on a beagle board, but I think it is a good thing. We are a family of sorts in beagling - we must never forget that - that's why we meet up on this website every day. This war is a part of our lives right now and to toally cut it out of our daily discussions would be ignoring the elephant in the room. It has us all concerned.

No family can sit down to dinner and agree on everything - impossible because each member's personal experiences dictate a unique perspective. I hope when this war is over we can come away from this table stronger for having shared our thoughts and feelings. (that was very woman-sounding wasn't it? LOL!). Seriously, it is much easier to be a computer-lurker and just read the posts as to stick one's neck out and actually put his/her thoughts and beliefs on the board for all to critique.

Sorry to interrupt - carry on!

Novice

Post by Novice »

Bev, interupt any time as far as I'm concerned! Alabama swamper, As I said I respect anyone that has something to say for their right to say it. So as to your right to call me any name you want I believe that you have earned it so please feel free. As to wether this is a just war or not that will be left to history to decide. I for one think it is necessary. But I will allways question what I read weather I agree with it or not makes no diffirence I am allways open minded and willing to hear what someone else has to say. Thank you for or gentelmanly responce and discussion. Lets all pray that it ends soon and all come home safe. John antunes

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Post by AlabamaSwamper »

I did call you a coward. However novice, that was before you put your name on your post. There seems to be alot of that on the boards I go to and most of us cant stand it. You would feel the same if you had folks coming on the boards and talking S%&t and not putting a name on it. Now that you have put a name on it, welcome to the beagling family. That is what set me off the first time. Like I said, we seem to have alot of that. They bash and then either dont come back to check it or they just dont say anything else. That is where I was coming from on the first post. No offense meant and if we had of had name I surely wouldnt have been so harsh. I think these protesters and commies like to frequent any board they can find and stir things up. Sorry if I offended you in any way.
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Novice

Post by Novice »

Alabamaswamper, First NO offence taken. I just assumed that most of the people posting knew my name my fault you see my email is my name and to be quite frank I havent figured out how to get profiled on this board yet but I will take some time and do so. later John

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