Joe legal vs Jose Illegal

[Pine Mt Beagles]

PATCH---- I RESPECT EVERY ONE'S INPUT ON HERE SOME, A LITTLE MORE THAN OTHERS,I THINK YOU HAVE SOME GOOD POINTS,AND HAVE MADE THEM WELL, BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME MAKING MY POINT,SOME TIMES,I'AM NOT VERY GOOD WITH WORDS, A LOT OF THESE GUY'S ARE WELL EDUCATED AND TALK OVER MY HEAD.BUT I DON'T LET IT BOTHER ME, ACTUALLY I HAVE LEARNED A LOT, FROM MOST OF THEM ,BUT DON'T LET IT GET YOU DOWN, AND VOICE YOUR OPINION,YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF THESE GUY'S, MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WILL LISTEN TO YOUR OPINION,(((( I DON'T THINK T.C. MEANT NO DISREPECT,BUT I CAN'T SPEAK FOR HIM,BUT HE IS A GOOD GUY,)))) ,SO DON'T RUN OFF HANG IN THERE.I APPRECIATE DIFFERENT VIEW'S..GOOD LUCK
RUFUS

[DoubleEagle]

I READ SOME WHERE THAT SOME OF THE ILLEGALS WERE GOING TO BE ELIGBLE TO GET SOCIAL SECURITY,HAS ANYONE HEARD THIS,,

They tried but I dont think it has went through yet....oh, John McCain can also kiss my azz on this one too!!!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... 132-2456r/

Hey... finally something you and I can agree on!

When it comes right down to it the approach of dealing harshly with those who employ illegals is probably the best approach. And some of you may be surprised to hear me (of all people) say this but I think we should take it a step further. You know that little sign that says "We retain the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason"? Now I'm not saying we need to go back to the days of Jim Crow with a twist of salsa. However I say there's nothing wrong with carding someone when they want to buy cigarettes or alcohol. And if they cannot provide a valid ID... exercise your right to refuse service. Of course you can't be obvious about it... that would be racial profiling. But I know that I am thrilled when anybody asks for my ID anymore. Heck I thank them for the compliment! If we can take away their job opportunities and generally make the U.S.A. an uncomofrtable place to be, and do it legally... I am all for it. the ACLU, they have forgotten what that "A" stands for. They are supposed to represent Americans and until Jose Illegal can pass that citizenship test and demonstrate a marketable skill... he aint American.

[deadeyebeagle]

i work in mostly new built homes so you no we dont have a lot of work but the best thing that has came of the dems doing imo is that alot and i mean a LOT of forners have left the country and went back home thanks obombi i think

[TC]

PATCH---- I RESPECT EVERY ONE'S INPUT ON HERE SOME, A LITTLE MORE THAN OTHERS,I THINK YOU HAVE SOME GOOD POINTS,AND HAVE MADE THEM WELL, BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME MAKING MY POINT,SOME TIMES,I'AM NOT VERY GOOD WITH WORDS, A LOT OF THESE GUY'S ARE WELL EDUCATED AND TALK OVER MY HEAD.BUT I DON'T LET IT BOTHER ME, ACTUALLY I HAVE LEARNED A LOT, FROM MOST OF THEM ,BUT DON'T LET IT GET YOU DOWN, AND VOICE YOUR OPINION,YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF THESE GUY'S, MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH YOU, BUT WILL LISTEN TO YOUR OPINION,(((( I DON'T THINK T.C. MEANT NO DISREPECT,BUT I CAN'T SPEAK FOR HIM,BUT HE IS A GOOD GUY,)))) ,SO DON'T RUN OFF HANG IN THERE.I APPRECIATE DIFFERENT VIEW'S..GOOD LUCK
RUFUS

Thanks Rufus
and NO I DID NOT mean ANY Disrespect to Patch We have Went back and forth on a Lot of issues over the years and I generally Agree With him!! (must have been a bad day)
And have Always respected his opinion just as I respect yours ( Dang Sure Wouldnt Stop me From runnin hounds With ya!!!)
We are All in this Together and For the Most part Want the Same thing.. A FUTURE For those that Follow i Cannot agree With the NEW Administration but Can Do All i can to Change it and Do my best to Ward off the Socialist Attitudes of many!!!
this Country has always Welcomed those Who Would like to better themselves With open Arms All we Ask is that it is Done LEGALLY....
We have to Follow the Rules WHY DONT THEY???
WHY do they FEEL THAT THEY Are ENTITLED to SPECIAL TREATMENT???
WHY Do THEY DESERVE BETTER THAN THE REST Of US???

[Pine Mt Beagles]

I KNOW IT IS NOT MUCH AND PROBLY JUST ME, BUT NOTHING TRIPS MY TRIGGER MORE THAN BEING IN A STORE OR RESTAURANT,AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE DON'T SPEAK OR REFUSE TO SPEAK ENGLISH ESPECIALLY, WHEN YOU WALK UP CLOSE TO THEM,I WAS ON VACATION ABOUT 3 YRS AGO WENT INTO WHAT WAS BILLED AS A NICE PLACE TO EAT, COULD NOT EVEN PLACE AN ORDER, IT WAS A BIG NAME RESTAURANT. I JUST LEFT, BUT WHEN I GOT HOME I STARTED TAKING SPANISH LESSON'S I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT IT, BUT I CAN, GET BY I REALLY DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVEING TO LEARN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO LIVE HERE IN A COUNTRY MY ANCESTORIES FOUGHT AND DIED FOR......ARE WE GOING THE WAY OF THE,,,,,,,,,,,,, AMERICAN INDIAN ,,,,,,,,,

[2500 HD]

Passive actions will get you no where but taken over. Demand the english speaking worker, throw a fit, and stand up for our flag, nation, and language. IF YOU DON'T YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

SOME GOOD POINTS 2500HD,READ MY POST ON THE FIRST PAGE I'AM NOT VERY PASSIVE.ANY MORE IT IS HARD TO GET SOME ONE ON THE PHONE, THAT SPEAKS ENGLISH JUST TO CHECK YOUR PHONE BILL,I GUESS I 'AM JUST GETTING OLD I HAVE MUCH TOLLERANCE FOR THAT KIND OF THING ANY MORE...

[Briarhoppers]

I'll add another perspective. Let me start off by saying I'm as patriotic as anyone and recognize the immigration issue is a big problem and there are no easy answers. I think everyone should pay taxes, be responsible for paying for health care, speak English, obey our countries rules, etc.

But here is where the rubber hits the road for me - I am a custom home builder - and I am building a house, I need dependable, affordable, quality labor. It is tough right now to make any profit on a house and I need to control costs more now than ever. I have found (the hard way) that I am much more likely to find hard working, professional, get the job done workers by hiring a Hispanic crews and laborers (w/ a legit boss, sub contractor owner).

I don't know what has happened to the American work force, but it is hard to find an American who is willing work do labor work for labor pay and do a good, honest days work - this includes showing up on time, not complaining, not ask for money before paytime, not have to call in "sick" from drinking or drugs, not needing a break every 30 mins., not being a pain to manage and supervise. And at the end of the day not being productive and the whole time thinking they ought to be boss. I sick of dealing with all of that.

It is much easier to call so and so sub contractor and say I need 6 guys (hispanics) here in the morning. They are on time, never complain, don't take breaks, happy to do the work, never question or challege me, work late, etc. I'd say the average USA born and bred 18 - 25 year old doesn't know what real, hard work even looks like. You pick 10 random USA laborers and then pick 6 random Hispanic laborers and I guarantee you the Hispanics will out produce the 10 everytime. I see it everyday. My point. Some of the problem is our own fault.

-Pete

[TC]

I'll add another perspective. Let me start off by saying I'm as patriotic as anyone and recognize the immigration issue is a big problem and there are no easy answers. I think everyone should pay taxes, be responsible for paying for health care, speak English, obey our countries rules, etc.

But here is where the rubber hits the road for me - I am a custom home builder - and I am building a house, I need dependable, affordable, quality labor. It is tough right now to make any profit on a house and I need to control costs more now than ever. I have found (the hard way) that I am much more likely to find hard working, professional, get the job done workers by hiring a Hispanic crews and laborers (w/ a legit boss, sub contractor owner).

I don't know what has happened to the American work force, but it is hard to find an American who is willing work do labor work for labor pay and do a good, honest days work - this includes showing up on time, not complaining, not ask for money before paytime, not have to call in "sick" from drinking or drugs, not needing a break every 30 mins., not being a pain to manage and supervise. And at the end of the day not being productive and the whole time thinking they ought to be boss. I sick of dealing with all of that.

It is much easier to call so and so sub contractor and say I need 6 guys (hispanics) here in the morning. They are on time, never complain, don't take breaks, happy to do the work, never question or challege me, work late, etc. I'd say the average USA born and bred 18 - 25 year old doesn't know what real, hard work even looks like. You pick 10 random USA laborers and then pick 6 random Hispanic laborers and I guarantee you the Hispanics will out produce the 10 everytime. I see it everyday. My point. Some of the problem is our own fault.

-Pete

I Agree Compleatly And never Said I had a problem with the people themselves And i know for a fact how hard Working they can be!!! Just make Sure they do It legaly!!!!
the there is a difference between ILLEGAL ALIENS and green Card Carring legal imagrants..
Do YOU as an Employer make sure that ALL the Employees that your SUB Controls or brings are legal????
that Would be a good place to start.......

[Tim H]

Briarhoppers, you point out the very problem with the illegal aliens. Illegal aliens make more money doing the same work as the legal worker (what would your check look like if NO taxes were taken out?). Businesses try to legitimize the hiring of illegal aliens by using "legit" sub contractor owners.

get the job done workers by hiring a Hispanic crews and laborers (w/ a legit boss, sub contractor owner).

The "legit boss" is the only legal one out of the bunch and that is who the business hires while turning a blind eye to who the sub hires. That puts legal US citizens out of work. After a few times of being replaced by illegals, the legal, smart, valuable, hard workers go into another industry where they aren't getting replaced. So the only workers left trying to compete with the illegal aliens is the folks who can't get another job elsewhere because of their poor work habits. Face it, if you're a hard worker and smart, are you really going to try to make a living in a career that allows illegal aliens to take your job while getting paid next to nothing because the illegal aliens have driven down the wages?

Look at the economic impact illegal aliens bring to this country and you will see that the wages that could be paid to legal US citizens would go up dramatically.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

VERY WELL PUT TIM,,

[Alabama John]

Ask yourself "do I buy from Walmart or from the local store and pay more to boost the local economy?"

Americans screw each other and buy what's the cheapest. Only yell when it effects their job!!!

Mexicans have sources that provide them with forged SS numbers and cards. How is the contractor able to know the difference? He can't!!!

Many construction projects have a minimum wage scale that must be paid for each trade. Mexicans are hired, not because they are cheaper, but, as was said, they work and don't complain.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

JOHN
WHEN SAM PUT WAL-MART IN, IT WAS AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS, AND NOW IT IS MOSTLY CONTROLED BY CHINA,AS IS MOST OF OUR ECONOMY,THERE ARE NO LOCAL STORES ANY MORE THEY HAVE PUT THEM ALL OUT VERY, FEW LEFT AND THEY SELL CHINA PRODUCTS,I TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM WAL-MART BUT SOME THINGS YOU JUST CAN'T FIND,I STILL THINK THE LAW SHOULD BE INFORCED,DEPORTATION AND FINES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HIRE ILLEGALS,,,,,,BUT LIKE MOST PEOPLE I DON'T THINK ANY THING WILL HAPPEN EXCEPT AMNESTY SOONER OR LATER ,,,AMERICA'S ECONOMIC FUTURE DON'T LOOK AS GOOD AS IT ONCE DID,,,,, J M O

[Tim H]

Let's not beat around the bush. No one is fooled by what goes on no matter how you try to legitimize it, here's how the system works and we ALL know it .

The contractor hires a "sub-contractor" (legal immigrant). There is NO MINIMUM WAGE for contract work. That's what makes it a contract job. That's also why the original contractor doesn't hire the workers for himself. He couldn't get the laborers as cheap as the "sub-contractor" (legal immigrant) does. Guess why?

The "sub-contractor" (legal immigrant) get's paid for the job (not by the hour) then he hire's the illegal aliens to do the job and he pays them LESS then what he would have to pay if he had to cover taxes on legal US workers and MINIMUM WAGE LAWS do not apply to those who are here illegally (they sure aren't going to report it). They take less because
1. They are illegal
2. They don't have to pay taxes.
This saves the "sub-contractor" (legal immigrant) and the (illegal aliens) both money.

The original contractor then benefits because
1. he doesn't have to risk hiring illegal aliens even though they are doing the work for him.
2. He get's the sub-contractor (legal immigrant) cheaper because the sub-contractor (legal immigrant) doesn't have to pay taxes and he gets the labor (illegal aliens) cheap.
All this adds up to a larger profit margin on the job for the Contractor . He then also can claim he's never hired an illegal alien and appear to be doing the right thing.

Candy coat it all you want but no one believes the contractor is looking to get hard workers that don't complain by hiring "immigrants" . If they are such hard workers that don't complain, why not get them on your own payroll and try to keep them in your own company? I think we can all answer that.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

THE CONTRACTORS PAY NO COMPENSATION, HEALTH CARE INSURANCE,NO TAXES. I THINK THEY ACTUALLY GET A TAX BREAK, FOR HIRING THE LEGAL IMMIGRANT THE CONTRACTOR TO START WITH.I HAVE HEARD TALES OF A LOT OF SUBSTANDARD HOUSES BEING BUILT BECAUSE THE WORKERS COULD NOT READ THE MEASURMENTS AND BLUE PRINTS,MY NIECE BUILT A $550,000 HOUSE AND WENT THROUGH 4 DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS,PLUS ALL THE COURT COST'S IT WAS A MESS,SHE FINALLY SOLD IT AND LOST A BUNCH.