NBC 2005 BOB Ch. Windkist A Walk In The Park

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:53 am

blunder wrote:
The hunting packs in the UK show their hounds once a year at the different shows.
Patch, you are aware that a beagle won BIS at Cruft last year.
But I do know full well what you are saying because I have been going to
field trials of one kind or another since I was a kid (40s), and this
argument is the same now as it was then. You also know as well as I do
tho' that many good trial/hunting dogs wouldn't be able to do squat if it
wasn't for the environment that they grow up in.

Not to throw salt on open flesh but, your statement of having more
Show CH's for the first time, rather than Field CH's, could be taken as a
poor reflection on your breeding selection or, the influence Show dogs
have had on you & your hounds...
Nooooooo, that is because my daughter has been doing a lot of showing,
and I have been a "slacker" and hunting instead of trialling
(call it a benefit of getting old)

tom

Cruft..., is that the Kennel Club(show hound) show?

You know the AMHB has rules that no Pack hounds can participate in KC events or be crossed with Kennel Club hounds.?

We have some Pack hound show winners in the pedigrees of our hounds.
Dummer, Clinkard, Aldershot, Stowe & "Brighton & Storrington", Peterborough(pack hound) shows though.

You made my point thou, it take the breeding and the environment to properly evaluate hounds, without either, your driving blind. I get tickeled at the fuss folks make about making sure a hound is bred right and can run a rabbit pleanty good before breeding to them, and then, turn around an breed to a show hound on looks and CH. ribbon only...

... You know as well as me, hunting quality doesn't lay in waiting for someone to take the hound hunting. If I just bred my pretty hounds together without seeing the ability or lack of, in the hunting field, I might be breeding together no hunt, mute running, babbling, anchoring, swinging fools, and never know it. Each generation I go on, the bad becomes set and the good becomes lost, but if I don't hunt them, I won't know anyway, but I keep picking the pretty ones.
But hey, this is a fun game anyway and as long as you feed the hounds you like, life goes on.

I just got a new book from my friends the Clinkards. It's titled "Beagling" by J.C. Jeremy Hobson, looks like it was printed in 87". Has lots of good info., pics of the Sandhurst, Aldershot,Clone Valley & Meon Valley Beagles. Numerous pics of Roy and one of his father Walter(Kennel/huntsman of the Christchurch Beagles). Roy became Kennel/huntsman of the Aldershot Beagles in 59'. They started their own pack, and now have amalgamated with the Meon Valley, creating the Cliinkard Meon Valley Beagles. I was able to go hunting with them when we went across the pond to visit my daughter at Harlexton. It was amazing to see hunting as it was done over there for hundreds of years, but so sad now that they are reduced to hunting a sock...

Well, I put a couple of pups in the pen this morning and I think I've got those little ticks on me, so, I'd better go get the lint-roller...

Windkist · Post by **Windkist** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:44 pm

Patch, you are aware that a beagle won BIS at Cruft last year.
But I do know full well what you are saying because I have been going to
field trials of one kind or another since I was a kid (40s), and this

Tom,

A beagle got a group 3 at the Crufts show last year. I think the Australian Shepherd from the USA won BIS. I don't remember a beagle winning BIS there for as long as I've been following the show.

Leah

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:25 pm

Windkist wrote:
Patch, you are aware that a beagle won BIS at Cruft last year.
But I do know full well what you are saying because I have been going to
field trials of one kind or another since I was a kid (40s), and this
Tom,

A beagle got a group 3 at the Crufts show last year. I think the Australian Shepherd from the USA won BIS. I don't remember a beagle winning BIS there for as long as I've been following the show.

Leah

Actually I said "last year" (2005) and I was thinking of this dog which went Group 1
http://www.crufts.fossedata.co.uk/group ... roupID=HOU
And the Norfolk went BIS

Cruft..., is that the Kennel Club(show hound) show?

Yes it is the Kennel club (England) but it is an all breed show.
This year (2006) there were 24,640 dogs entered which made the Guinness Book Of Records as the largest dog show ever.

BTW,,,, take a sec to congratulate some good friends (Mike & Val Ducross) on the DC (Canada) they put on their dog "Push" (got the certificate today from the CKC)

http://www.ambertrail.com/

tom

Windkist · Post by **Windkist** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:58 pm

Actually I said "last year" (2005) and I was thinking of this dog which went Group 1
http://www.crufts.fossedata.co.uk/group ... roupID=HOU
And the Norfolk went BIS

Either way its a pretty amazing show that I'd love to attend at some time in my life ;-)

BTW,,,, take a sec to congratulate some good friends on the DC (Canada) they put on their dog "Push" (just got the certificate from the CKC)

Thats awesome! Looks like a very deserving dog!

Leah

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:40 pm

Leah
Here is a better one

Christine Roberts (Merser Island WA) put the 5th Master Hunter (Retriever) pass on her IWS (Irish Water Spanial) this weekend

So she is now
Am/Can Ch Realta's Just Do It, MH, CDX, TD, RN, WCX, Can CD

(Tell me it is impossable to put a DC on a Beagle)

tom

TC · Post by TC » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:53 pm

Its not impossible the challenge is there, you just have to find the right format for that dog and keep plugging away at it. There is so many formats to trial your dog in is the one thing that can make it either hard or easy depending on the situation.

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:07 am

Sure wish we had some of those formats around here

We have a lot for Retrievers and Pointers in this part of the world, and pretty close to zilch for anything else.

tom

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:35 am

I can't seem to find the post I made on this thread a while back. Could it have been deleted?

It was just one man's opinion... thought that was allowed on an open forum.

Seems there was some interest expressed in finding a good show male to breed with rabbit dawgs, and a degree of frustration with the show owners. Mine has pups on the ground that I don't mind showing (in the field, even!) and he is available for breeding at a very reasonable fee.

Here is a link to his pedigree.

http://www.pawvillage.com/pedigree/pedi ... S4RYAWUR0M

PM me for more info and pic's of him and his offspring.

TC · Post by TC » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:28 am

I can't seem to find the post I made on this thread a while back. Could it have been deleted? It was just one man's opinion... thought that was allowed on an open forum.

Its still there Larry
One page back.....................

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:53 am

Well thanks. And that dog of yours, Rosie's Just By Chance, is what I am trying to breed, assuming he can run a rabbit, and I suspect he can. Not an 8 hour LP on hare hound, just a good looking, sensible cottontail beagle that can start a rabbit and circle it alone or in a pack. That sounds a lot simpler than it is!

Beagle Huntsman · Post by **Beagle Huntsman** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:24 am

Patch said: "You know as well as me, hunting quality doesn't lay in waiting for someone to take the hound hunting."

I have to take issue with that comment. I've seen a number of show bred hounds that hunted very well when given the opportunity. My bitch, Briarhill's Gloria, is a good example. We bought her from Bruce Smith in Pennsylvania, who is well known in the show arena. She was about 1 year old and had never been out of the kennel. Today she's an excellent rabbit hound, and her puppies have been good also. If I knew how to do it, I'd post her photo taken with those Michigan hare we got with her.

If you know what lines to use, there is still field ability to be obtained from the show hounds, as well as better conformation. You can also have negative results if you make the wrong crosses, but that can also happen by breeding to straight field hounds, from America OR England.

TC · Post by TC » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:23 pm

Larry G wrote:Well thanks. And that dog of yours, Rosie's Just By Chance, is what I am trying to breed, assuming he can run a rabbit, and I suspect he can. Not an 8 hour LP on hare hound, just a good looking, sensible cottontail beagle that can start a rabbit and circle it alone or in a pack. That sounds a lot simpler than it is!

Thanks Larry G.
Yup thats ol Chance just a good ol Rabbit Dog!!!!
When I want to go Hunt rabbits he is the first one in the box......
Little more mouth than some like But I love his voice So dont Bother me!!
I have Run Cottontail in the AM ,Snowshoe in the Afternoon and Jacks in the Eve with him.
he is a pleaser fer sure. Just NOT waht they like in the AKC show ring!!!! I guess
Now you want a get down Grubbin Get er Done, theres a rabbit in there Kinda Dog His Sis Dottie is that kinda dog!!!!!!!!
TC

TouchstoneBeagles · Post by **TouchstoneBeagles** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:18 am

I also have a Briarhill beagle from Bruce. She is an excellent hunting companion although she is medium speed. Her search and jump and line control are strong points. I have a 7 mo old pup from her that ran with a cast of 3 of the top dogs in the country and the pup held her own. Maybe the excellent hunt characteristics of briarhill beagles is due to most of their ancestry being from Austrailia, Finland, and Denmark??? Are there other show bloodlines that show excellent hunt characteristics? Dan M

Beagle Huntsman · Post by **Beagle Huntsman** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:41 am

If you trace the Daragoj back far enough, you'll find it goes back to American show lines. My female traces back on her female line through the Daragoj to the American CH. Johjean's Bill Jamboree Jubal, who is behind the pedigrees of other kennels who have used show bloodlines to produce hunting beagles, such as Little Ireland and Bedlam. The World Pedigrees site can show you this.

I've seen some show lines that produced a very tight mouth to the point of being almost mute, others that produced too much speed (overrunning), and others that have genetic problems such as whelping problems, dwarfism, bad movers, etc. The Echo Run lines have been the best I have found so far for hunting ability without a lot of the other problems.

I don't think you need a lot of show blood if you are trying to produce hunting beagles. Just enough to improve conformation to a point is all that is necessary. Beyond that and you are working only on "cosmetic" improvements that don't affect field work much. Good clean movement is the key.

TouchstoneBeagles · Post by **TouchstoneBeagles** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:34 am

I believe every part of the beagle standard effects correct function. My goal is to develope hounds with perfect structure and perfect hunt. It seems like a long road but allready a few are on the right track. Getting litters of pups that are strong in both will take time. At first we will likely get a few superstars but most will be marginal in hunt or show. Developing bloodlines that consistently produce pups exceptional at both will take generations of selective breeding. With numerous breeders making a conscious effort the goal may not be as far off as some may think. Dan M