The American Beagler Forum

Ok - here is a picture of Shasta that I had taken at the show. I had only clipped her whiskers for this show & she still needs to lose a pound or two. She is also going to start getting a little more exercise because of a little bit flabby due to the weight that she has already lost. She's a ways off on being a regular show dog - if that ever happens but I think she is showing some improvement.
[img][img]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/ ... g19_07.jpg[/img]

Cindy - in case you are reading this - I meant to tell you - Honey is a pretty little girl.
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Hi!! Thanks! The picture right now (9-9-07) on my avatar is 13' CH. Leigh.

Okay...can I give you some constructive critisism on your girl??

See that dip in her topline that makes her rear look higher than her front? You can diminish that when you are stacking her by pulling her rear legs a little farther behind her and setting them a little wider than her front. Do you have a mirror that you can practise in front of????? Also, if her topline dips like that when you move her WEAR A LONG BLACK SKIRT to help camoflaug (sp?) it on the "go around"....and on the down and back go STRAIGHT down and back to the judge so he/she doesn't see her from the side

Do you have Clippers? Take a #10 blade and shave her from under the chin all the way down her neck and on all of the WHITE on the front of her neck & chest, under her belly, and all the way back underneath to her vulva. Get rid of ALL of those scragglies on her underline. Take thinning shears and just neated up her rear a little and blend the sides of her neck.

She looks hare footed? I don't consider this necessarily a fault in a hunting beagle BUT some judges notice feet and most prefer a tighter "cat foot." Clip those nails back SHORT. You may have to make her bleed the first few times if she has had long nails forever and has grown a long quik. You'll have to JUST DO IT. Have some Quik Stop on hand and a helper. She'll hate you for a few minutes and probably fight you for nails for the next 6 months but it needs to be done. Eventually the quik will receed and she'll stop fussing. You can also dremel them short. SHORT, SHORT, SHORT.

Take your ten blade and clean out the hair in the ball of her foot but NOT in between her long toes. Scissor her foot round (the hair) trying to make that foot look as tight and round as you can. Does she have dewclaws? Ughh....not much you can do but trim them as short as you can, and if you have the $$ get them removed

Okay...can you take any more
Buy some chalk and really chalk up those legs and her muzzle. She doesn't look like she has a lot of bone and the chalk will help. Let me know if you need more chalking details. Spray "whitener cleaner" (spray chalk) works well too.

Don't hold her tail like that. You want the tip of her tail rounded with thinning shears to as short as possible (my opinion from looking at her from the picture). The goal is to have the tip of the tail level with the top of the head.
Back brush her WHOLE TAIL every night with a comb dipped in water to make it stand out thick looking (a friend from Cal. taught me that trick). Then back brush just the underside on the day of the show and mist with hairspray.

I'd say her face, her attitude, and her black shiny saddle are her biggest assets. Use them

Hope I've helped give you some ideas....you need an Oster A5 clipper, a #10 blade or two, chalk, thinning shears (ask Leah which ones), a greyhound comb for her tail, a stripping blade-- red handle McCleelan I think...Leah help me out here....trying to get her going with the basics...
http://www.CherryBrook.com has it all.

Best of luck!!! I'd love to help you in person if I could.
Cindy

Now try doing all that at a UKC show you will be disqulified the first time the judge lays hands on the Dog an feels all the MAKEUP they will be sent to the back at the least and not placed

Cindy not trying to Knock AKC SHOW dogs I just Do NOT AGREE with all the Groomin and MAKEUP If it cannot do it naturally then i guess we just Wont Do it at all anymore.....
Have you ever looked CLOSE at any of these AKC CH some just aint the same Dog in a week of two after showing once all the Chalk and hairspray is gone and the hair has grown back out

BeagleMama Once you get tired of all the Political BS in the AKC try UKC you will have a lot more Fun!!!!!
That is Unless all the Political BS is your cup of tea

TC.. There is nothing wrong with taking a little hair off here and there and just neatening up the appearance of your hound. I am of the Less is more grooming school. Having had a labor intensive breed for a lot of years (cockers) I dont' want to groom. I clipper very little. I do not clip all the way down the front but, just a little under the neck and take the whiskers off. I neaten the rear and scissor the scraggly hairs off the neck and flank area. I do shave the belly where its almost bare anyway and round the tail. I rarely chalk.. almost NEVER! I hate the stuff. A warm washcloth with some self rinse soap over then in the morning before the show and a slicker brush is about it for me.

To each his own I guess. I'd like to try UKC sometime but, I just haven't had the time. Good dogs really can and do win at AKC shows. Especially beagles as they are almost always an owner/handled breed in the classes.

Leah

I am just trying to help beaglemama make the most of her little bitch and an OWNER HANDLER needs to groom well to compete against and hope to beat the professionals.

In AKC you have to do some clippering/tidying. But you don't need much, or any, makeup on a REALLY good beagle, or one with a lot of bone, but for Beaglemama's little Beagle she is going to need some help in the grooming and bone department. It won't change the fact that she isn't a WORLD BEATER but it will make her more competitive in AKC and she'll just plain look extra purty to her mama

AKC is still the Gold Standard in US Championships...an AKC Championship does mean more, at least today and yesterday, than any other conformation championship title in North America. That is a fact. Try selling a SHOWDOG overseas without an AKC championship

And AKC is not ALL politics or only 1 of my 7 Champions would be finished Seriously!!!!

I Agree Leah I was not trying to Single anyone out Just as the Norm.
And you are usually an Exception to the Rule....
We Will do little things to Enhance the apperance as Rounding the Tail and Evening up the Scraglys as you say But Will not If it can be helped Strip a dogs Coat or try to HIDE or ALTER its appearance
We Run our Dogs in the field also and i HATE havin to put them Up for 2 to 3 weeks before a show because they may have a scratch or two and we all know that in AKC you aint Gonna Win with Scratches or Scars..
Now in UKC its a different Story all together... it tells you right in the Rules that the Hound is to be shown in its natural state. I have seen a dog with the proper Structure and form with a few Field scratches place over An AKC show Champion with multiple BIS and all its makeup. As soon as the judge placed his hands on the Dog and came away Feelin Sticky the Dog went to the back
Some things you Just Caint HIDE

I remember a certain GSD that won several BIS with 1/2 an ear missing. Scars of honor are just fine in the AKC ring. Chalk actually isn't make-up but, a whitening agent if the dog is a little dirty. I just wash the legs and my dogs have good bone so, chalk to me is a wasted effort and messy. 99% of it is brushed out really. You wanna see makeup...lol Go to a cow or horse show.. man! they really know the tricks! from dye to hairpieces.

Leah

TC wrote: i HATE havin to put them Up for 2 to 3 weeks before a show because they may have a scratch or two and we all know that in AKC you aint Gonna Win with Scratches or Scars..

Not trying to pick bones too much here with you TC, you know i love ya, but right now i have a 6 yr. old dog (Joe) who is beating young gorgeous dogs for points and is HALFWAY finished now, and he has a broken tooth, two missing (removed) incisors, mostly bad breathe and lots of little rips and tears in his ear leathers. He also has a couple scars on his face and I have given up dying him because it looks too phony. he has won and lost dyed or not. The good dogmen & women find him because he IS a really good beagle. Some don't like his dental issues or older face, but the good judges do tend to reward him with me, an complete UNKNOWN in the general AKC world, handling him. AKC judges are not all bad and some are superior dog men and women and most of the best competition dogs in the world have an AKC title or two or three (field, conformation, tracking, obedience, etc.,) JMHO

No Problem Cindy
(You know or Should by now) that i just like a Good debate about AKC VS UKC and it has notheing personally to do with you or Leah.
I Just Do not like Being looked Down apon by SOME AKC Breeders and judges because I run my hounds (oh he is one of them FIELD people)or that we refuse to breed to the Fancy (What is big this year)
AND I stand Corrected I guess i should have said IN My limited Experience A dog with Scars or Scratches Dont do well But then again I guess if We just Got Some better Dogs LOL
You Know How we feel about Ol Joe (We Wouldnt have placed a bid on Him At the Stud Dog Auction If we were not interested or didnt Find him Worthy..)
AND i am Thrilled that he is Doing So well...
I Guess what i am Trying to get across is that With Beaglemammas Dog She would be much better off showing it in UKC than AKC as it Does take an Exceptional Dog ( In Some Eyes) (another Opinion) to Win in the AKC ring I DO NOT always agree with the AKC judges as to What they are putting up But to each thier Own and it after all is just One persons OPINION on Any ONE day.......
Now as far as them being better Dogs!!!!!! Well thats just another Persons opinion also It has been my experience that not all AKC CH are worthy of the Title i have Seen Some OUTSTANDING UKC CH that will not ever be shown in the AKC ring due to the political nature harbored there..
beaglemamma Do what you feel you are comforatable with and most of all HAVE FUN when you start feeling all the stress and are tired of the attitudes there just give UKC a try........Wash Em, brush em, Show em!!!

I Just Do not like Being looked Down apon by SOME AKC Breeders and judges because I run my hounds (oh he is one of them FIELD people)or that we refuse to breed to the Fancy (What is big this year)
AND I stand Corrected I guess i should have said IN My limited Experience A dog with Scars or Scratches Dont do well But then again I guess if We just Got Some better Dogs LOL

I know there are some snobs in the AKC world but, believe me I find that those like you TC who run their dogs and show them as well are the cream of the crop! I have nothing but admiration for you. You have beautiful dogs who do their Job. Nothing better than that. As for me. I guess I am not inclined to hunt or go out running dogs. My life is busy and since there are no gun dog clubs here it would be near impossible to do it. If I lived where there were some clubs I'd be right there enjoying the dogs and probably trying to learn how to get involved.

I started in AKC I fought,clawed and worked my butt off to get where I am and your right. Its tough! At this stage of the game I'm just not sure another title in another registry means that much. Actually none of the show stuff is really my cup O' Tea personally. I like breeding and raising the puppies and thats where I enjoy being. Now that I have a beautiful young daughter with much more talent than me for showing dogs I plan to do a lot more watching rather than running ;-)

Leah

If I lived where there were some clubs I'd be right there enjoying the dogs and probably trying to learn how to get involved.

And YOU would be more than Welcomed your experience and knowledge of proper Conformation is and Will be a Asset to beaglers in years to Come
your record Speaks for itself.

I started in AKC I fought,clawed and worked my butt off to get where I am and your right. Its tough!

This also Shows in your breeding program and your continuing help toward those who would like to Help the breed or add to thier breeding program.......
And thank you for your Comments on our hounds and breeding program this means more than you can emagine......respect and understanding is all we have ever asked for....

beaglemama here is a link for you Check it out i dont think you would be disapointed
http://ukcdogs.com/
http://ukcdogs.com/conformation.htm
TC

That new topicwas suppose to be a reply to the message about Shasta's show pic but I must have hit the wrong button - wonder if this will work-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The constructive criticism is what I was waiting to hear - that is why I put that picture here. I am not sure how much of it I will do this year - right now, we only have 1 more weekend of shows lined-up - remember, we are mainly out to have a little fun at this point and get to any shows in this area that Lee(the person who is showing Shasta for me) is willing to go to, VOLUNTARILY. Lee is also a full-time college professor of Biology here in Topeka plus teaches a class or two at the University of Kansas in Lawrence so she is pretty busy. As of yet, I have not had to pay Lee anything for showing Shasta for me because she was at the same show with her own dog. Lee will also be at the shows in Lawrence in October - she is treasurer of the kennel club there that is hosting the shows - I just have to make sure I get Shasta there, which my sis has agreed to. IF there comes a time when, 1. Lee and I enter into some kind of a paying agreement with her showing Shasta a little more or, 2. I start showing Shasta myself which right now is not possible due to a physical limitation on my part then I hope Shasta will be shown a little more regularly and I know that we both will have benefitted a great deal from all the discussions here. I know my baaby girl has flaws - she didn't join my family on the condition of being a good show dog. On the other hand, as she matures (and I know this can take Beagles a full 2 years to fully accomplish) and is shown a bit more, she may develop into a decent show dog. I remember watching a Eukanuba dog show earlier this year on Animal Planet - there was a dog competing there that did start out as only being a family pet. I'm not saying that Shasta would ever be that good but we are going to have fun anyway.

And I know all too well about horse shows and makeup - again, we were mainly doing it for fun and as a hobby but MANY years ago I did have an Appaloosa yearling colt that did qualify for the Appaloosa World Championship - you want to talk make-up, even some of the horses shown in western events like reining and even with the kids who showed horses in showmanship and western horsemanship.

But I will listen to all the great advice that is given on this board and will practice wnat I can. And Cindy, about that dip in Shasta's back that makes her rear-end appear higher than her front-end - I mentioned what you said to Lee (I saw her a bit earlier this afternoon), she knew EXACTLY what you were talking about and when I mentioned also about what you said to correct it - she agrees but because this was Shasta's first show experience and is really kind of squirmy/wiggly and didn't want to do much to correct Shasta - turn this into possibly a bad show experience (Shasta is super sensitive, honest) Lee didn't want to push it. However in the future, it is definitely something to work on. Getting her to stack well is something I can also work with Shasta on - it is just moving her around the ring then picking her up to the table is what I have problems with - but who knows, maybe if I work on this more (work on myself) we MIGHT meet in the showring one day .

I have been to each of yours websites and the pictures there alone also have given me guidance on what I need to work on as well as all the great info you have given me here. I was wondering what to do with Shasta's tail - she has kind of a fine coat but it is hard coat as well plus she is so fine-boned; now the bushy tail that my neutered male has is beautiful but Shasta needs help with hers.

Anyway, I have been working on this reply now for about 2 hours - I'd type some then go check out one of your's websites or check my email only to get another notification that there was another reply here. I need to go get some laundry started - the glorious workweek begins tomorrow and I need to get some clothes ready. Anyway, I love this sort of banter going on between people who love their Beagles as much as I love mine. I wish there was a good Beagle breeder close to me - I know I would benefit from them the way I am from you all.

Ok, enough is enough - at least for now. I'll be around sometime.

Leah and Cindy,
I sure would like to have one dog from each of your kennels. Let me hunt them for about a month and see how much grooming that you would have to do. No hair on under bellie to trim and if they really get in the brush probably none on their tail. There is some good advice that does help. I will get a picture of my son's female and let you critigue her for me. TC ifin I had that purty guy of yours up here he wouldn't run out of gas thats for sure.

I am relatively new to beagles..but like Leah I groom to a minimum. I have finished one girl with BOV over group winning specials and a major from a specialty show weekend and have had a FC bred get AKc pointsI leave whiskers on, I do not trim the under belly (every one here is in the field at least once a week...I do trim the neck with a 7 or 10 blade in an V pattern to the sternum.. usually use the 7 it takes off less hair and does not leave it redddened, I create "fancy pants" around those cow licks at the but and I trim the hair on the back of the rear flanks with either thinnig sissors or a stripping knife, I neaten the rear hocks with thinners and if the dog has really good feet I trim the hair out of the front pasterns. I also round the tail tip with thinners. some times I will neaten the botom lin with a small pair of trimmers. I rarely chalk...I usually get the spray chak all over me! I use a light spray of pink oil sheen and soomth that in with a sissal hound glove to add sheen. I have a pair of 44 tooth Frome thinning shears that were pricey when I bought them but that was 12 years ago and use a black handled real stripper that is a good 20 years old..I don't like the Red McCellan as it is too coarse,
After running in the field ears are doctored with Miconozole (Monistat creame ) to prevent thickening and scabs and hair loss...That keeps ears in good shape...our tail brush at the very end is a little thin but the rest of the brush is good

Beaglebrit, I still have my original 44/20 thinning shears and red handled mcclellan stripper.. 20 + years old! LOL

Thornie.. I don't think so! but, thanks for the advice

Leah