Show vs Field part 2

Beagles in Show. Whether your beagle shows full-time in the ring or part-time at the field trials, this forum can be helpful and informative for those seeking better conformation in their beagles, and presenting them at their best to the judge.

Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett

RiverBottom
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:02 pm
Location: Minnesota

Show vs Field part 2

Post by RiverBottom »

This is a good topic. Of course everyone has their own opinion of what is best based on where they live and what they do with their dogs (which is why field trials and shows will never produce a dog that pleases even a majority of beaglers). Let's see what some of you are doing.

Here's mine:
I hunt hare in Minnesota. I need a hound that can run in extreme conditions including months of cold and snow. I have been working on this line of dogs for a few years with lots of help from my wife and also Pete LaDue, my hunting buddy. One beagle that is behind most of my dogs is LaDue's Cider. He could run a hare on the worst snow conditions without getting sore feet or showing any signs of wear.
Image

I kept a female from Cider and LaDue's Sandy (maybe the best rabbit dog I have ever seen) named Rose. Rose turned out to be the best I have owned to date. She is built for speed and could easily out run Cider but her feet were not quite as good as Cider's.
Image

We raised several pups from Rose, the best to date is LaDue's John (Daniels Shy x River Bottom Rose). I think John is the closest thing I have seen to Cider is looks and conformation. He is also one of the best young dogs we have now for running on tough snow conditions. I don't have a good picture of John but here is a video of him in action.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8849&hl=en

I bred Rose back to John and kept the whole litter. To early to tell yet how they will turn out for hunting but here's a couple pictures of one of them, Flyer. He is still a pup and will fill out more as he gets older, but he has the conformation I am looking for in a rabbit dog.
Image
Image

Breeding for conformation alone is easy. The hard part is getting ability, voice, AND conformation all in one dog. Along with all of that I try to breed for dogs that are easy to break off deer (Rose never ran one and never had to be broke). John is close, he has very good conformation and ability (excellent line control and speed with plenty of nose), was very easy to break, but is lacking in voice as I'm sure you heard.

Breeding is a constant trade off. Even if by some miracle you got one with everything you hoped for, try keeping that going in the next generation! I breed dogs only for what I like. I'm not even going to try and please some judge that may have different opinions than me, that task seems almost impossible.
42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

User avatar
TC
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:36 am
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by TC »

RiverBottom:
You are absolutely correct in Breeding for what you like first. You are the one that the dog has to please; but I did notice you have some really nice looking dogs!
Breeding is a constant trade off. Even if by some miracle you got one with everything you hoped for, try keeping that going in the next generation!
This we find as well when doing our breedings, however we are trying to achieve the consistency stage. I don't believe you are just going to find silent runners in the show lines. I believe it is across the board. I have found that the show lines we have crossed with has produced stronger desire and high hunt instinct versus their parents. So I feel we are going in the right direction, just that it takes time, we have not been producing a lot of pups, we produce a litter and keep onto a few of the pups and place others with those that keep in contact with us so we can keep an eye on how they are progressing.

Our dogs have ran in various types of habitat and do well so far. We have ran in a number of types of formats as well. Our dogs tend to do better in the UKC progressive Pack, and ARHA PP we do have a couple that are ARHA LP and UKC hound and hunter style of dog that can cross over to AKC Large Pack and do well. Are they winning ton of trials no, but then again we don't go to all that many trials, however they do turn a few heads when in the cast. Most will tell you those dogs are good running dogs. So I don't think we are producing culls cause those that have told me this I have a lot of respect for in their opinion of dogs.

As for dog shows, well in the middle of beagle heaven and there is hardly any dog shows with in driving distance, so I have slowed down on showing my dogs, however I will keep up with my idea and breeding to please me.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

Honey Pot Hounds
Posts: 1353
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:21 am
Location: New Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by Honey Pot Hounds »

Is Cider the older dude in the back? I kinda like the looks of that dog from what I can see of him. And the first dog you posted too. Rose is a little too lean and lanky for my personal taste but she's still a nice looking bitch...:nod:
Last edited by Honey Pot Hounds on Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cindy

Join the fight to keep your guns & Beagles
http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/home/
Created to fight bad legislation and defend the victims of animal and environmental extremism.
WE NEED YOU!

User avatar
blunder
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Ogden Utah
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by blunder »

Actually you will find that there are a lot of Beaglers that want that leg.
CH Copper Rose Nothing But Net (Patrick)
CH SweetBreez Erin Go Braugh (Peanut)
CH Windflower It's A Beautiful Day (Morgan)
CH Copper Rose Looney Tunes (Poo)
CH Seventhson's Shotgun Sophie

RiverBottom
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:02 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by RiverBottom »

TC, consistency is what I am after also. Even when breeding close there is still a lot of difference between pups in a litter. Consistency takes years. By the time we get there we will be to old to enjoy it :(

The older dog in the background is Spider, a son of Cider.

I hunt a lot in snow (just got a bunch more of the stuff and it doesn't look like it is going away any time soon :mad: ). What I have found is that dogs that are built like Rose can get through snow more easily than dogs built like Cider. My son calls that build "aerodynamic". Lots of days, the aerodynamic dogs can go over snow that the heavier dogs have to plow through. Even on bare ground, these dogs move more easily with less effort than the more bulky, heavy dogs.

The hardest part for me as far as conformation goes, has been to get that lighter build and still have good feet. Snow gets crusty and hard and is very abrasive. The dogs I ran this weekend were bleeding and sore between their toes and around their nails, a sure sign that something is lacking in that area. The snow wasn't even that bad, we have to run on much worse at times. In all the years I hunted with Cider, I never saw him get sore feet.

Most of the "show" bred dogs have very good feet also. The UK pack beagle posted on the other thread looks like it could run here.
http://www.hunting-directory.co.uk/gall ... l05/53.jpg
Those are the kind of feet and legs I want in my hounds.
42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

RiverBottom
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:02 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by RiverBottom »

Here's some english foxhounds that show the kind of conformation I'm looking for in a beagle.
"Some Bilsdale pups, by Middleton Buzzard"
Image

I don't much care for the heads and I like tri-colors but none of that has anything to do with running. The most impressive thing to me is how consistent they are in build. Aside from the color they are almost carbon copies of each other. It takes more than one person's lifetime to get this kind of consistency if you are breeding for ability first and conformation second. I wonder how those hounds can run a fox?
42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

SilverZuk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Kenna, West Virginia

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by SilverZuk »

Here is my gip.
Due to the angle, she looks like her rear is low. If you look at her squarely she is fairly level across the top.
Overall, she is built nicely. I would prefer a little stronger in the rear and a slightly heavier frame.
Her height is 13".

I'll try to find a better pic.

Image

Incahoots
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by Incahoots »

This female is no show dog but she's put together very nice. I don't have her posed the best. Her sire IFC Cowbay Striker was the closest I've seen to the "total dog". Whatever weakness he had in conformation was more then made up in the field.

Image
Our Dirty Pond Beagles "Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in."
-M. Twain

buckridge
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 10:45 am
Location: Greenwood In

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by buckridge »

I have not read all the comments in this sessions... but I hope everyone knows there have been a few dual AKC champions in the past yrs... Perky dog is the last one I know of..
Jim Bucksot
Buckridge Kennel
Greenwood In.

User avatar
TC
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:36 am
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by TC »

buckridge wrote:I have not read all the comments in this sessions... but I hope everyone knows there have been a few dual AKC champions in the past yrs... Perky dog is the last one I know of..
Dual Ch. Pebble Ridge Shadrack

Good Point Jim but my Question is Did he produce in Like??? Did any of his get reach that Stage?
Consistency is, as has been Seen very hard to breed to............
Not Since Mr. Seibold was consistently Winning with the Wheatly Dogs back in the early 1900s
ANY litter can Produce An exceptional Dog but to do it Again and again Multiple times in the Same litter....and again in the next from one in the previous litter
NOW thats a goal to shoot for. :D :D :nod:
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

buckridge
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 10:45 am
Location: Greenwood In

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by buckridge »

I forgot the dogs name, but he did produce some very nice hunting dogs, he was 100% field bred.

Will try to research his name and pedigree... this has been yrs ago.

I am working on a duel champion dog right now, wish me luck.
She is the dog you seen in Owensboro, that won her class everyday and came close to taking breed everyday against a specials.
I am working her in my pen now, not looking too bad, but has a ways to go as being a good field trial dog.
Jim Bucksot
Buckridge Kennel
Greenwood In.

RiverBottom
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:02 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by RiverBottom »

Silverzuk and Incahoots you both have good looking hounds.

I like the lighter boned hounds for hunting in snow. They can go over snow that the heavier boned hounds have to plow through. At the end of the day the lighter hounds have used up a lot less energy than the heavier ones. Same is true to a lesser degree on bare ground. More bone means more weight. That extra weight takes more work to carry around all day. I haven't seen any downside to the lighter boned hounds as far as stamina and longevity is concerned.
42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.

User avatar
TC
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:36 am
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by TC »

buckridge wrote:I am working on a duel champion dog right now, wish me luck.
She is the dog you seen in Owensboro, that won her class everyday and came close to taking breed everyday against a specials.
I am working her in my pen now, not looking too bad, but has a ways to go as being a good field trial dog.
Good luck With her Jim if she Runs even Close to her looks then she will get it done!!!!
Aint no reason you caint run her now and get her in Shape With all that FREE TIME you have now LOL

We also Are workin On one or 2 here and have a promising Litter on the way!!!
hope to see you at some of the trials this fall and hopefully Aldie this Spring We are planning on being there!!!
What association do you think you will run in? UBGF ? ,Midwest ?,
Mine Dont have enough STYLE For UBGF and a little to much foot for em...Looking at Midwest more than any...
I Will probably be starting them in UKC PP or NKC PP.
Again good Luck to ya...
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

buckridge
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 10:45 am
Location: Greenwood In

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by buckridge »

Most likely UKC, or some form of PP, she does not have the AKC UBGF style right now.
I am working her with my older bitch right now, which is an AKC UBGF Champion
I am planning on going to Aldie this spring, with another nice bitch I have, should do well in all three events.... she has some show blood in her, but you talk about controlling a line, and hunt... she is something else, nothing but business.

I am planning on coming down your way this yr to do some hunting... hope we can work it out.

Jim
Jim Bucksot
Buckridge Kennel
Greenwood In.

Beaglebrit
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:02 pm

Re: Show vs Field part 2

Post by Beaglebrit »

TC wrote:
buckridge wrote:I have not read all the comments in this sessions... but I hope everyone knows there have been a few dual AKC champions in the past yrs... Perky dog is the last one I know of..
Dual Ch. Pebble Ridge Shadrack

Good Point Jim but my Question is Did he produce in Like??? Did any of his get reach that Stage?
Consistency is, as has been Seen very hard to breed to............
:nod:
I bred an SPO bitch line bred Gray's Buck X SkullFork Tilly(both hall of Fame dogs) to Shadrack...I sold both pups to Hunters...did not have the line control or the conformation that I desired. I have had much better luck breeding to line bred dogs based on Shadrack"s full brother FC Flat Lands Cody (who also won the SPO Nationals and the UGBF Nationals) I have the Body style and running Style that I desire but she is lacking in muzzle. I did place one Cody grandson on the bench ( 4 AKC bench points) but he was tragically killed in a hunting accident. Right now I have a 15 inch bitch who has plenty of foot great nose good line control and superb looks for a field bred dog...Would love to fine some one with a 15' show/field bred dog to mate with her!
Betsy

Post Reply