Fall planting of Native Warm Season Grasses?

[BrownBear]

Has anyone had any experience planting native warm season grass? I'm interested in planting Little Bluestem, Side Oats Gramma. and Switchgrass. Everything I've found suggests spring planting or late fall (after frost) thru march as a frost seeding. Can it be done in Ohio in Aug.- Sept. like the cool season grasses?

[Steve CLK]

I have researched this aswell. Personally I would wait until the spring to plant after you know the last frost has occured. This stuff is too expensive to sow and let it sit there through the winter and hope that it comes up in the spring. The problem with planting it to early in the fall is it will come up and not get a deep enough root system and when the cold temperatures come and freeze the ground it also freezes the root system and kills the plant. I have currently planted about six to seven acres in milo, millet, rape, sunflowers, iron/clay peas, and sudan grass as a cover crop on the areas I plan on sowing switchgrass in next spring. Again, its just my opinion.

[BrownBear]

I'm sitting here laughing . I spent a lot of time research something to come up for quick cover on a fallow 5 acre piece I have. In the end I came up with a mix almost identical to yours. I should have just called you! How do you intend to fit and plant your piece in the spring?

[BCBeagles]

Is switch grass the cover of choice for cover grass?

I will be building a 8-10 acre pen in spring and want to plant it up to work for the long haul. Looking at clover for food, but what for cover that won't overtake naturally occurring cover??

Thanks!

[rabbitatfarm]

Switch grass is good cover, but any of the bunching grasses are good: big and little blue stem, and Indian grass. Get a soil test and plant a mix. In a running pen, I might opt for oats or wheat as both food and cover. Depends on how big your pen and how much you use it. DO NOT plant fescue!!! It is toxic to rabbits and will crowd out native plants. Weeds, the first year or two, are a problem for native WSGs. The grass has to be mowed at around 4-6 inches so the weeds don't get a chance to go to seed. The seed bed has to be firm and well prepared for WSGs. It holds up well to snow better than say timothy or orchard grass. Rabbits eat a variety of plants so throw in some others like rape, millet, etc. Once established WSGs should be burned periodically to keep the understory open for easy movement by baby rabbits. WSGs are harder to establish than cool season grasses but last we once established.

Larry

[Steve CLK]

I'm sitting here laughing . I spent a lot of time research something to come up for quick cover on a fallow 5 acre piece I have. In the end I came up with a mix almost identical to yours. I should have just called you! How do you intend to fit and plant your piece in the spring?

BrownBear,

I spent alot of time researching the different types of grasses and suggested food plot varieties for small game. The one thing that impressed me during my research was the iron/clay peas. They are have large amounts of nutrients essential for small game, especially rabbits thats why I planted them. So basically I planted the peas as a food source and the rest of the stuff was for overhead cover that I knew would come up quick and get thick enough to protect the rabbits from overhead predators like hawks and owls. As far as getting the fields ready for next spring I will either burn off the fields and then turn them under in early March or I will bushog them and turn them under, but more than likely I will burn them off to try and kill any residule seed that survived the winter so they will not be competing with the switchgrass that I plant in the spring. Then I will disc the areas as soon as possible and I plan on renting a planter to drill the switchgrass in lieu of broadcasting it. Several local co-op stores offer this service if you have access to a tractor to pull it. This saves on the amount of seed you have to purchase to cover the same area and in my opinion gives you a better stand of the desired plantings instead of the possiblity of getting the crop to thick in one area with broadcasting and having the plants fight each other for nutrients.

Is switch grass the cover of choice for cover grass?

I will be building a 8-10 acre pen in spring and want to plant it up to work for the long haul. Looking at clover for food, but what for cover that won't overtake naturally occurring cover??

Thanks!

BCBeagles,

I have spent countless hours researching the "warm season grasses". I have contacted our state wildlife biologist and even discussed it with him. He recommends planting big blue stem, little blue stem, indian grass, and switchgrass with a mixture of wild flowers that are native to the area in which you live. After I found all of this out, I started talking to people that have planted the stuff and they all have told me the same thing. The rabbit and quail populations has greatly increased in the areas of planting. But, several of them has also told me not to waste my money on planting the big blue stem and little blue stem that the switchgrass areas of the fields they planted always seem to hold the rabbits. So, that is why I have decided to plant the switchgrass. The thing I like most about the switchgrass is it gets between 6' and 8' tall and during the winter it will break over and still give the rabbits plenty of overhead cover. Also, I am like you in planning on planting strips of clover as a food source.

I am no expert by any means, but I feel like I have researched this subject enough that for me and my area this is the best option.

[Steve CLK]

One thing I forgot to mention, I am also goint to plant some strips of sericea lespedeza. It gets about 3' to 4' tall and is also a good food source for rabbits when it is small. The stalk will get "woody" once it gets around a couple of feet tall. A fellow beagler that has forty acres fenced in utilizes this in his pens, but I think the combination of this and the switchgrass is the best way to go. Thanks.

[chris1971]

Maybe you need to start writing those hours down and they would be easier to count!!

[Steve CLK]

Maybe you need to start writing those hours down and they would be easier to count!!

I really don't want to know how many hours I have spent looking this stuff up. AND, I am sure my employer would not want to know either .

[rabbitatfarm]

Be aware; serecia is an aggressive invader and on the noxious weed list in some states. In time, it will replace your switch grass. Do you have any natural shrubs in your area, like dogwood, sumac, wild plum, etc? Those would be my choice for cover along with brambles. Or you could simply drag a couple of trees in and scatter them around for cover. Weeds and vines will grow up in the limbs and make it even better. Lightly disc your pen area and you will be surprised at the variety of plants that will follow. Of all the components, cover is the most important. I don't think you mentioned where you are located. That might help with advise and thoughts. The northern states need more berry canes, sumac, crab apple, and other shrubs. Rabbits eat the bark in winter.

I agree with iron-clay cow peas. They are great!! They tolerate drought and poorer soils, resist grazing, produce edible seeds if given a long enough growing time, are very high in protein and relatively cheap--around 50-55 per bag. Millet produces forage and seed quickly.

Larry

[BCBeagles]

Thanks for the input....I will be in a pretty decent scenario as the are clear cutting the entire are where my pen will be this fall. We are going to have all tree tops in this section put into the acreage of the pen.

Cover will be there, but I want more less dense cover and lots of food for them.

Thanks again!

[BrownBear]

I have researched this aswell. Personally I would wait until the spring to plant after you know the last frost has occured. This stuff is too expensive to sow and let it sit there through the winter and hope that it comes up in the spring. The problem with planting it to early in the fall is it will come up and not get a deep enough root system and when the cold temperatures come and freeze the ground it also freezes the root system and kills the plant. I have currently planted about six to seven acres in milo, millet, rape, sunflowers, iron/clay peas, and sudan grass as a cover crop on the areas I plan on sowing switchgrass in next spring. Again, its just my opinion.

Steve I will wait till spring to sow the grass. Do you have any thought on why the rabbits preferred the Switch grass over the Little Bluestem. I was leaning towards the Little Bluestem because of it being shorter, I thought it would be easier to see the dogs run? Have you seen mature stands of either one of these? I'm wondering how well they hold up to snow in the winter. I grow switch grass commercially and it get's beat down pretty good.
I think it's a good thing if you can burn that Sudan grass down. I can't burn it as I'm to close to houses. I grow a lot of it for cover crop. I've mowed it down in 2 stages and it's still a mess to disk down (in Fall). By spring it's broke down enough to chop up better after beating on it in the fall.
Thanks for all the info
Shane

[BrownBear]

I'm sitting here laughing . I spent a lot of time research something to come up for quick cover on a fallow 5 acre piece I have. In the end I came up with a mix almost identical to yours. I should have just called you! How do you intend to fit and plant your piece in the spring?

BrownBear,

I spent alot of time researching the different types of grasses and suggested food plot varieties for small game. The one thing that impressed me during my research was the iron/clay peas. They are have large amounts of nutrients essential for small game, especially rabbits thats why I planted them. So basically I planted the peas as a food source and the rest of the stuff was for overhead cover that I knew would come up quick and get thick enough to protect the rabbits from overhead predators like hawks and owls. As far as getting the fields ready for next spring I will either burn off the fields and then turn them under in early March or I will bushog them and turn them under, but more than likely I will burn them off to try and kill any residule seed that survived the winter so they will not be competing with the switchgrass that I plant in the spring. Then I will disc the areas as soon as possible and I plan on renting a planter to drill the switchgrass in lieu of broadcasting it. Several local co-op stores offer this service if you have access to a tractor to pull it. This saves on the amount of seed you have to purchase to cover the same area and in my opinion gives you a better stand of the desired plantings instead of the possiblity of getting the crop to thick in one area with broadcasting and having the plants fight each other for nutrients.

Is switch grass the cover of choice for cover grass?

I will be building a 8-10 acre pen in spring and want to plant it up to work for the long haul. Looking at clover for food, but what for cover that won't overtake naturally occurring cover??

Thanks!

BCBeagles,

I have spent countless hours researching the "warm season grasses". I have contacted our state wildlife biologist and even discussed it with him. He recommends planting big blue stem, little blue stem, indian grass, and switchgrass with a mixture of wild flowers that are native to the area in which you live. After I found all of this out, I started talking to people that have planted the stuff and they all have told me the same thing. The rabbit and quail populations has greatly increased in the areas of planting. But, several of them has also told me not to waste my money on planting the big blue stem and little blue stem that the switchgrass areas of the fields they planted always seem to hold the rabbits. So, that is why I have decided to plant the switchgrass. The thing I like most about the switchgrass is it gets between 6' and 8' tall and during the winter it will break over and still give the rabbits plenty of overhead cover. Also, I am like you in planning on planting strips of clover as a food source.

I am no expert by any means, but I feel like I have researched this subject enough that for me and my area this is the best option.

Just one note on drilling the Switch and Blue stem. I threw in some Kentucky Blue grass and Orchard grass when I planted my sorghum/Millet blend. I really expected it to vibrate and settle out in the hopper and it didn't. It stayed mixed beautifully. I believe you can mix these fine grasses with pelletized lime or even fertilizer of similar size to Sudan/Sorghum. Mix enough to match the volume of the Sudan/Sorghum you would plant. Set the drill to the Sudan setting and your ready to go. Mine drilled really nice. I broadcast the Fertilize,Soybeans, and Sunflower over the drilled Sorghum/Millet and then just ran the empty drill over it to pack it in.

[Steve CLK]

Steve I will wait till spring to sow the grass. Do you have any thought on why the rabbits preferred the Switch grass over the Little Bluestem. I was leaning towards the Little Bluestem because of it being shorter, I thought it would be easier to see the dogs run? Have you seen mature stands of either one of these? I'm wondering how well they hold up to snow in the winter. I grow switch grass commercially and it get's beat down pretty good.
I think it's a good thing if you can burn that Sudan grass down. I can't burn it as I'm to close to houses. I grow a lot of it for cover crop. I've mowed it down in 2 stages and it's still a mess to disk down (in Fall). By spring it's broke down enough to chop up better after beating on it in the fall.
Thanks for all the info
Shane

Shane, I talked to several older gentlemen who are in my local club. One of them is the owner of the forty acre pen I told you about earlier. He told me that he loves the switchgrass because it gets so tall and when it breaks over in the fall it provides great overhead cover and underneath the rabbits have several pathways for easy movement. But, in his pen he planted the sericia lespedeza because you can see the dogs/rabbits running through it. The club always runs trials at his place and that is the main reason he said he planted the serecia or he said he would have a combination of both the serecia and switchgrass. He says a hawk or an owl cant get down through it either and he proved it (by pure accident). We were running pups one morning and a red tailed hawk dove at the rabbit the dogs were running but just before he got to it I guess he seen the sericia at the last moment and flew away. That same day we watched the same hawk try three different times to get a rabbit but was unsuccessful each time. I have been around farming along time, planted several food plots for deer and turkey, but in my opinion you cant replace experience (been there done that), that is why I spoke with the guys who have been doing this for 30-40 years. You cant replace that experience.
There is a running pen in Glasgow, KY that the gentlemen has primarily switch grass. It is awesome. The only bad thing about it is that it is hard to run through. That is why I am planning on stripping my plots. I plan on doing a couple rounds and alternating the switchgrass and serecia along with some spots of clover mixed in. I know the serecia is an aggressive plant, but from what I have read about the switchgrass so is it. So, hopefully the two different species will come to a common ground. As far as snow cover, I am not for sure but the guys who have the Glasgow pen run in it year around and I or my son have been to their puppy hunts in the fall and spring for the last couple of times and the cover looked great.
I was worried if that Sudan grass would be a pain in the but to get broke up. Thanks for the advice, I will plan on burning it for sure. When Chris1971 and I get our pen done I will post some pictures of how I planted it in the spring. Thanks.