Results Grand Nationals

[Brooksidebeagler]

Hareball, The master of hounds said after the protest 3 dog cast 3 handlers 1 said handle 1 said not sure 1 said bring up just like I posted so call me whatever you want I don't care. Also the judge did not own the dog that got measured out.

Vicky & Brad you both helped a ton with this hunt & sure made my job alot easier, for this I Thank You I owe you one. I am glad to hear that you are planning on coming to more little pack hunts.

[hareball]

Brookeside Beagler, I don't care what your Master of Hounds said. If you took the time to read, then you would know that both handlers have posted on here already saying that the judge did say "handle the dogs", therefore no scoring should have been done after that on one single dog while the other handlers and dogs were left behind with no idea of what was happening. There was a rule violation and the cast should have been rerun. I would gladly tell your master of hounds from that situation that I consider him a liar if he says otherwise. I do however thank you for letting me know the judge did not own the dog he was going to handle in that cast, but who actually did own the dog, and why was the judge going to handle him, and why did he put him back in his vehicle to take back home with him to Michigan? I am just curious about these things.

[MGB]

You've got a better chance of winning the lottery than a protest in LP.

[toldyouso]

another reason why this would not had hapened in PKC a vote in the field would had been taken and if that did not settle it then a 25.00 protest fee would had to be put up and a panel would had been chosen with the hunt directer and they would had decided.

[dogwhisperer]

Brookeside Beagler, I don't care what your Master of Hounds said. If you took the time to read, then you would know that both handlers have posted on here already saying that the judge did say "handle the dogs", therefore no scoring should have been done after that on one single dog while the other handlers and dogs were left behind with no idea of what was happening. There was a rule violation and the cast should have been rerun. I would gladly tell your master of hounds from that situation that I consider him a liar if he says otherwise. I do however thank you for letting me know the judge did not own the dog he was going to handle in that cast, but who actually did own the dog, and why was the judge going to handle him, and why did he put him back in his vehicle to take back home with him to Michigan? I am just curious about these things.

Just curious what was the rule violation?

[backyard beagler]

Brookeside Beagler, I don't care what your Master of Hounds said. If you took the time to read, then you would know that both handlers have posted on here already saying that the judge did say "handle the dogs", therefore no scoring should have been done after that on one single dog while the other handlers and dogs were left behind with no idea of what was happening. There was a rule violation and the cast should have been rerun. I would gladly tell your master of hounds from that situation that I consider him a liar if he says otherwise. I do however thank you for letting me know the judge did not own the dog he was going to handle in that cast, but who actually did own the dog, and why was the judge going to handle him, and why did he put him back in his vehicle to take back home with him to Michigan? I am just curious about these things.

Just curious what was the rule violation?

I may be wrong but when your told to handle the dogs all scoreing is supposed to stop. From what I understand this didn't happen,
(FROM ARHA WEBSITE...During a time out the judge shall tell the handlers to call in their hounds, or leash them, and no scoring shall take place during the time out. Example: The judge calls a time out. Hound A jumps a rabbit or strikes a rabbit. No points are awarded for this jump or strike).....the judge scored 4checks and a strike jump AFTER he told them to handle their dogs.....If anything he should have told them to bring their dogs to the one running and once all the dogs in the cast was running together started scoring them from the first break down. I personally had a good time and im not on here trying to run the club or its members down, but this particular cast was handled wrong if we are supposed to go by the book.

[dogwhisperer]

i must have just over looked where it said he called a time out.

[hareball]

My thoughts exactly Backyard Beagler:
As per ARHA LITTLE PACK RULES, POLICIES, AND PROCEDURES
H. Time Outs

1. Only the judge has the authority to call a time out, but a handler may request a time out.

2. During a time out the judge shall tell the handlers to call in their hounds, or leash them, and no scoring shall take place during the time out.

[dogwhisperer]

So i assume the judge said time out? i re read the post and didnt find it. maybe i over looked it.

[hareball]

Dogwhisperer,
Let me ask you a question: What is to be done when the judge tells everyone to handle their dogs? Should ALL handlers be required to actually do just that and handle their hound?. Also if handlers are told to handle their dogs, does scoring stop? Or in your opinion can one dog be scored, even though the dogs were never released again together and they were never all put in on another track together????? I don't know how things are done where you are from, but everywhere I have been, if the handlers were told to handle then that is what is done, and if a judge is going to put on a rabbit after that then he makes sure all hounds are in the race and scores them ALL from the first breakdown. YOU CAN TRY TO PUT A SPIN ON WORDS ALL YOU WANT BUT EVERY HOUNDSMAN HERE KNOWS THAT WHEN YOU ARE TOLD TO HANDLE THE DOGS THEN THERE CAN BE NO SCORING!

[dogwhisperer]

Well here's what I do know if no time out was called then no rule break. Bad break yes. We have all been in a cast where a dog couldn't be handled and most times judge says were moving on but the strikes are still open. Also why fault the dog that went and found a rabbit to run.since your a houndsman you should have known he was not scoring your dog when he was headed to the other dog. I do not know who the judge is and do not care either way. Maybe there is more to the story I was not there but as a master of hounds that's the same call I would have made. Lesson learned to judges keep the dogs together or atleast headed the same way. Also where in the rule book does it say a hound cant be scored while dogs are being caught unless A TIME OUT HAS BEEN CALLED OR REQUESTED. Myself i would not score dogs when being handled but thats not what the rules say. Also in lp i can judge and drink beer cause it says handlers and spectators nothing about judges

[hareball]

So let me get this straight: You feel a judge can tell handlers to "handle their dogs" then when two of three were in the process of handling can run off without making anything clear to all handlers and judge one dog in a cast. If this is how you judge or what you see fit from a judge, then I sure hope I never draw you as a judge. Noone said to fault a dog for finding a rabbit, but a dog was never established to be on a track to the point of handlers being told to handle. Also should my dog be faulted by me being told to handle him, then him not having the opportunity to be scored in a race because two of three handlers had no clue what was going on due to a judge not letting us know? If it was established a dog was running before he said to handle then he should go and score, but that is not what happened. But if a dog was found sometime during the process of handling hounds then he should make sure he clarifies to all handlers to get all the hounds together then score from first breakdown. You know that, I know that, and everyone on here knows that! We can all be petty and try to twist words, for example, I could also say that my hound was not given a full hour of hunt time since I was told to handle him and never told again to release him. Also I have no clue what you mean about him scoring my dog while running to another dog; I didn't say that! I guess I could take it as a compliment that my dog went from winning the cast to losing because he had to be on the lead for the other dog to win.

[Brooksidebeagler]

I am not defending this judge I was not out there but what I can say is this. If you are handling a dog in a cast it is your responsibility to stay close enough to the judge so that you can hear him if he needs you. SO if you are handling dogs & a dog jumps a rabbit & the judge takes off after that dog you better get moving that way as fast as he is so that you can hear him when & if the judge were to decide to start scoring the chase. The rules say you don't have to wait for every dog to be in the race only give them resonable opertunity to join the race.
Did you get a bad break in this cast? YES you did & that sucks it has happened to everyone who has trialed in any format. Chalk it up as a lesson learned MOVE ON. The breaks will not always go the other persons way they will come your way too.

I can tell you the best way that you have a shot at winning a protest is bring a rule book with you and say here is the rule violation. If you can not do that save your breath the master of hounds is going to rule with the judge because the JUDGE is in charge of the cast when it is in the field not the handlers. Also please show me where in the rule book it states that a rule violation will result in the cast being rerun.

[foxxy]

a judge can ask u to bring up the dogs

[hareball]

One cannot keep up with a judge that has asked you to handle dogs and then ran off in a sprint while you are catching your hound. Heck when we finally did find them they were what felt like half a mile away or further on private ground we weren't even supposed to be on, lol. I will not argue with you any longer due to the fact that you will defend your friends or acquaintances until the bitter end, right or wrong. It was a bad call, bad decision, and a poor way to be treated after almost six hours of driving. My first time driving to your club and probably my last, even though the other casts I was in were judged great, and that is with me being beat fair and square, lol. I absolutely want to be clear to anyone that has been watching this post by saying that almost everyone I encountered at the club was courteous, honest, and very nice. It is like anything else; just a few bad apples ruin the bushel. Like I said, I don't mind being beat by a better hound, just not a bad poor call, politics, or anything else that we all have learned is unfortunately the bad part of trialing. Enjoyed the back and forth chat. My last post on the topic, so feel free to continue if you like and if it helps you vent, lol.