Is finishing a dog to akc fc still a big acomplishment

[Collins Country]

Jamie, you are so right!

[Roseland]

..

[old blood beagles]

Just wondering about the above post. Did the hound that had 10 good marks and 5 bad create the bad? If you have a clean running line control hound that might not have picked up a couple of checks but did not create a single mistake, why would you pick him or her up.

I put this up earlier this week and just now got to read the replys. From the replys that guys put on here you like a hound that has created 5 bad mistakes that took away from the pack and had 10 good marks, and then another hound that did not hurt the pack, ran a clean line, and had two less good marks then the other hound and you all still leave down the faulty hound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This might be what is wrong with some of these trials.

Take away the points for checks, jumps, strikes and judge the hound on how they ran the entire trial. There is a difference in AKC and ARHA

[Casey Harner]

Because they r suppose to contribute to the pack

Amen!!! , if they have no score over their packmates .....I sure wouldn't want to advance it.

Acomplishment over Style every time for me.

The last trial I was in, my hound got one or two good scores, but wasn't the highest scored hound in the round. So he didn't move on to the next series, and I was ok with that. He didn't do anything wrong, cause if he did he would have been picked up and put back in the box. The more trials I go to, is I am seeing though that dogs that do contribrute a lot, will get to see the next series, even if they screw up here and there. I feel most, not all judges, want to see what the hound will do that next series, to see if he/she will straighten up or keep messing up. I don't know much, so I'll just shut up before I get yelled at lol.

[old blood beagles]

Casey, there is no score in AKC. You will have a judge put a mark beside what he/she sees. A check is no better than a strike, jump, drive or anything else, it is the entire race with the pack;hence the phrase we can't score until all the pack is on the rabbit. The judges are supposed to look at the hound that contributed the most to the pack and if you have a hound that created 5 mistakes that took away from the pack how is that contributing? Another remark that I dont agree with is that the judges will let that hound go to the next series to see if it will "straighten up" or keep "messing up". If it is messing up or not running to the satisfaction of the judges during the first series then it should not be brought back.

I dont want to sound like I am bad mouthing anyone or any hound or any judge, but there is a set of standards in the AKC Field Trial Book and we need to follow them. If you have a great running, line control, inside check work hound then it should be brought back. We must start picking up the faulty hounds that are creating the mistakes in the field.

[sparky]

In my opinion the Mistakes should be taken into account just as much as the Positives are.Alot of times those dogs that are picking up alot of the Checks are the same dogs that are causing the Checks to begin with,whether it be by blowing over the end,giving extra mouth an pulling their packmates,swinging,skirting,etc.etc. I like a scoring dog just as much as anybody else,but I want them to do it right.

[Casey Harner]

Casey, there is no score in AKC. You will have a judge put a mark beside what he/she sees. A check is no better than a strike, jump, drive or anything else, it is the entire race with the pack;hence the phrase we can't score until all the pack is on the rabbit. The judges are supposed to look at the hound that contributed the most to the pack and if you have a hound that created 5 mistakes that took away from the pack how is that contributing? Another remark that I dont agree with is that the judges will let that hound go to the next series to see if it will "straighten up" or keep "messing up". If it is messing up or not running to the satisfaction of the judges during the first series then it should not be brought back.

I dont want to sound like I am bad mouthing anyone or any hound or any judge, but there is a set of standards in the AKC Field Trial Book and we need to follow them. If you have a great running, line control, inside check work hound then it should be brought back. We must start picking up the faulty hounds that are creating the mistakes in the field.

Thats what I meant, forgot thats what I saw. I had a one or two marks. So I guess I will rephrase, my dog didn't have enough marks, to be brought back.....

Don't take this the wrong way sir, I am not saying anything bad about the two judges nor am I talking about that trial at all, I am more than sure the two judges picked the right dog in that class that I was in.

[old blood beagles]

Casey, did you see any hounds that made mistake after mistake brought back? How many faults did the other hounds make compared to yours? Not only the mistakes but also the good marks compared to yours and in your best judgement did the other hounds contribute more to the pack then yours?
I was not there and in no way would I ever try to judge from a computer but at some of the trials that I did get to go watch this past year, I seen hounds that I would not feed. With that being said, I also saw hounds that I would love to have and I felt that they did not get the "prize" that they earned.

[Ohiohntr]

I deleted part of my post even though I probably shouldn't have. I felt like maybe some would take it too personal and probably not the ones that should. Anyhow, hopefully I can recreate what I meant to leave.

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand....Me, I will enjoy my FC (who can circle a rabbit by the way, what FC can't ). To think that the FC title means nothing or is not a big acomplishement, well that would be a joke and I would question the motives behind those who are saying such. If I was the person who just finished a FC and read what some had to say on this thread and then have them congratulate me on here and on facebook, well I would probably tell them to go pound sand. Why would they not just tell the person they have a rough sob that isn't worth the food their eating...same idea right....seems a little hypocritical.

I am pretty sure guys who run in the Midwest and are proud of the Federation are getting tired of defending their judging and hound quality.

I recently went to LP on hare...is it for me and my dogs...nope....but I sure can appriciate what they do and would never get on the internet and dismay what the guys who work hard for their Federation have acomplished.

That is what is great about the country we live in...We can all agree to disagree.

[T LEE]

Hi old blood , lets make a deal. Every time you get a dog that completely dominates a pack off checks but makes a few mistakes along the way.....send it to me. Since you would want it picked up anyway.

Every dog I get that doesn't do much wrong in the pack, gets a couple of checks and works them out real close .....I'll send to you.

That should make us both happy.

[old blood beagles]

T LEE, that is not what I said. I said that a hound that has more "score or marks" regardless of the faults are the ones moving on to the next series and the ones that still have good to great marks but less mistakes than the first hounds are not. You must have taken something really personel that I posted. All that I want is for the hounds to be judged by the book that AKC has put out and not what ARHA guys think is the best hound.

We are seeing that type of judges in AKC, now I dont mind them as a judge as long as they follow the rule book of AKC!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pick up the over running, skirting, swinging, 50 yard check hounds and keep the clean, line control, close check hounds that can pound a rabbit for more then 5 minutes without a breakdown!!!!!!!!!!! How many times do we have to see a fast skirting, swinging, over running hound create mistakes before we pick it up?

[wildcatfan0309]

I deleted part of my post even though I probably shouldn't have. I felt like maybe some would take it too personal and probably not the ones that should. Anyhow, hopefully I can recreate what I meant to leave.

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand....Me, I will enjoy my FC (who can circle a rabbit by the way, what FC can't ). To think that the FC title means nothing or is not a big acomplishement, well that would be a joke and I would question the motives behind those who are saying such. If I was the person who just finished a FC and read what some had to say on this thread and then have them congratulate me on here and on facebook, well I would probably tell them to go pound sand. Why would they not just tell the person they have a rough sob that isn't worth the food their eating...same idea right....seems a little hypocritical.

I am pretty sure guys who run in the Midwest and are proud of the Federation are getting tired of defending their judging and hound quality.

I recently went to LP on hare...is it for me and my dogs...nope....but I sure can appriciate what they do and would never get on the internet and dismay what the guys who work hard for their Federation have acomplished.

That is what is great about the country we live in...We can all agree to disagree.

i was one of the lucky ones that got to read it before you lost your nerve and deleted it

[Ohiohntr]

Not really, the "meat" of it is still there....just had some phone calls from guys who were reading too much into portions of it and it was not really directed at them because I do realize some people physically cannot judge or do not have the time and money to hit very many trials. I also felt some of it was not really needed and I was letting emotions over-ride common sense. I sometimes forget how generalizations can be taken out of context so I got rid of those. But since you bring it up I guess I will try to clean it up and put it back on here....

The portion that I should not have put on here was (have to paraphrase here because I don't remember it all)..."I can't believe I have such a hard time finding judes, looks like I have 10 pages worth here...Oh wait, those are Monday morning judges. " There are some very good folks who have posted throughout these 10 pages of debate and by saying that sentence I included everyone, this should not have been the case and I hate generalizations as much as anyone and I found I had created one myself. Anyhow, here is the rest of it....

Ask yourself.....(feel free to answer)

1. How many hounds have I entered in a Midwest trial the last calendar year?

2. How many Midwest trials have I judged in the last calendar year?

3. What have I done to help an AKC Midwest club this year?

So based on those 3 questions...Do you have enough information to say finishing a dog to AKC FC in the Midwest is not a big acomplishment? I just see a lot of new names show up on threads like these that I assume rarely ever go to a trial and the only theory I can come up with is that they are feeding from the rumor mill trough rather than attending trials and forming their own opinion or they just want to be part of the lynch mob and dismay others acomplishments. I hit nearly every trial the last 5 years or so and some folks I have never seen at a trial but yet seem to be spokesmen for the federation everytime a "midwest bash fest" comes up. That would be like me going to one NLPC and now all the sudden I become the internet voice for the entire large pack federation and question everything their hounds have acomplished...to me that is not the right thing to do, others must enjoy it.

[toldyouso]

Its simple if you finish a dog in any format you have done something period. The question will always be how did you finsh the dog. And some people will never understand that question.

[eddywilliams]