UKC Hunting Beagle "Rule" Situation

[hurryup]

I was in finals at NHBA days last year and a dog jumped a deer in front of us..ran all around us..The non hunting judges said not in black and white in the rules..call time out when a dog runs off game..try jumping n scoring a rabbit when deer chase is going on..
This time out for not being able to handle dogs is the same thing..if its not a rule in black and white its it will not hold up,, question it and come back..Mike you of all people should know how these rule technicalitys work.
I talked to two ukc state reps today, both said the same thing..You cannot call timeout to handle catch a dog.. Not in the new rule book.

[Sundown Beagles]

So Vicky, what do you do as a judge at the end of a dead track? Do you handle dogs or let them hunt? Every cast has a deadline to return the scorecard and each cast has to hunt the alloted time. If a hound is unable to be handled are you saying as a cast you have to wait without calling timeout even if it means the whole cast gets scratched for not making deadline? Would like to know what those state reps said should be done. As someone stated before the rules do say the judge is responsible to keep the cast together. I believe this alone would be reason to call timeout. This situation has nothing to do with rule 7. Good discussion. Hope you had a great time in Indiana. Was great weather to be running.

[hurryup]

Dave had a great time at LP World, saw some good dogs...Great running and weather..Anyway last year at the ukc world this exact thing happened on my cast..Three min. Caught the dogs..and judge a ukc state rep said handle dogs, ok just as I went to grab mine she jumped a rabbit and sight chased chased it into a swamp..I tried really hard to catch her for about ten minutes, meanwhile the rest of the cast stood and help their dogs. The judge..state rep. Was having discussion with cast a time out could not be called..she wasnt trailing split or out of hearing..they had to stand n wait..I withdrew my dog because I felt it eas sportsmanship thing to do..In the older rules it used to be 30 min. But I have been told that is not the rule any more..I dont like it.. unfair to the cast to have to burn hunting time with dogs on lease..
Hopefully we can get the correct answer from Allen this weekend..
These questions online are a good way for everyone to learn and be on the same page..

[MES Kennels]

Dave had a great time at LP World, saw some good dogs...Great running and weather..Anyway last year at the ukc world this exact thing happened on my cast..Three min. Caught the dogs..and judge a ukc state rep said handle dogs, ok just as I went to grab mine she jumped a rabbit and sight chased chased it into a swamp..I tried really hard to catch her for about ten minutes, meanwhile the rest of the cast stood and help their dogs. The judge..state rep. Was having discussion with cast a time out could not be called..she wasnt trailing split or out of hearing..they had to stand n wait..I withdrew my dog because I felt it eas sportsmanship thing to do..In the older rules it used to be 30 min. But I have been told that is not the rule any more..I dont like it.. unfair to the cast to have to burn hunting time with dogs on lease..
Hopefully we can get the correct answer from Allen this weekend..
These questions online are a good way for everyone to learn and be on the same page..

Well I am really happy that I am not the only one feeling this problem/shortcoming in the rule book.

Hurryup: I commend you for scratching your dog because I can tell you, being on the other end of the scenario is not fun. Sitting with your dog on the leash using hunt time for the others to catch their dog is aggravating. I hope the UKC can change the rules if need be to accommodate this type of situation so it does not penalize the dogs that handle well. Until there is an explicit rule I will attempt to put the dogs on the clock.

[warddog]

Dave had a great time at LP World, saw some good dogs...Great running and weather..Anyway last year at the ukc world this exact thing happened on my cast..Three min. Caught the dogs..and judge a ukc state rep said handle dogs, ok just as I went to grab mine she jumped a rabbit and sight chased chased it into a swamp..I tried really hard to catch her for about ten minutes, meanwhile the rest of the cast stood and help their dogs. The judge..state rep. Was having discussion with cast a time out could not be called..she wasnt trailing split or out of hearing..they had to stand n wait..I withdrew my dog because I felt it eas sportsmanship thing to do..In the older rules it used to be 30 min. But I have been told that is not the rule any more..I dont like it.. unfair to the cast to have to burn hunting time with dogs on lease..
Hopefully we can get the correct answer from Allen this weekend..
These questions online are a good way for everyone to learn and be on the same page..

Great discisson for someone trying to understand UKC beagle trials. This situation brings even more questions to my mind. When the judge says to handle dogs is that a time out? If not then wouldn't the dog that was struck and the rabbit seen be an open track? if not then an order to handle the dogs would be a time out as I can'tsee having it both ways. Every time the dogs are handled I doubt each handler will control their dog at exacdtly the same time. In my eyes the situation above comes down to one of two choices, either the track is open or time out is called. In no circumstance should any dog be given an advantage of a strike while others are on the lead so either they are cut into the track to score or time out is called.
The rules on the UKC site are for 2010-2011 so they evidently are not the new ones spoken about although the 2013 PP rules are there which do address the 30 min. rule and I don't understand why it would still be of importance in one format and not all of the same registry.

[pappaw]

just read the hunting beagle rules and can,t find anywhere that it touches on this situation, but the performance pack rule defin it clearly if handler can,t catch dog in 5 min. cast dogs and if hound is not back with pack in 30 min. it is scratched.

[hurryup]

Apples and oranges when you compare PP and Hunting beagle..No time out is not called to handle dogs.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Vicky just a quick question for lack of knowing, if your dog jumps and sight chases a rabbit after a dead track then why cant everyone put on it and go from there? And yes to scratch your dog is pretty strong especially should you be leading in points.
Several time in lp if track is dead then time out . Now dog b does what urs did, i would ask if your strugging to catch it if everyone wants to let there dogs go and go from first check. That to me seems fair also.

[jumpNrun]

Just enjoy the beagles boys. Im usually mind boggled after each trial i go to. lol I am goin to start my own format for fun just for friends and whoever wants to come. SOON TO COME! I personally find pkc to have the least holes and flaws on judging but it has many as well. so im in the works for somethin new that people will like. We need the right dog to win. Also i had to catch my dog Goose 12 times in 2 cast as the world hunt this year and brought him back to 9 dead tracks.

[TC]

EXACTLY WHY I Quit trailing in UKC HH to many "Grey areas"

[hurryup]

Other handlers didnt want to split, so I had to catch mine..
and yes I am enjoying my dogs, I havent entered a UKC hunt yet this year..lol..but I sure have had my dogs out having a ball.. have ran some PKC and enjoyed myself.

[rabbithunter5890]

I was at a pp hunt and we had a good 15 min chase and they would not score because a dog wouldn't pack. Finally when the chase was almost done the dog was picked up. We never had another chase,so there wasn't any scoring. I didn't care much for the rule, and was wondering why this was? Thanks

[Big Mike]

RH5890,
From your description, it appears the hounds were running from "first check" either a judge or handler jumped the rabbit or a rabbit was seen, that had not been produced by the hounds. Scoring begins from the "first check"(if all handlers agree) when "all" hounds have packed in on the race. I believe the 5 minute rule should have applied to hound that failed to pack within that time frame.