SIZE,SIZE,SIZE,SIZE.........................

[DRamey]

Back to to where the discussion started to go on the previous page, if I may. Theories are out there that people are breeding big hounds to big hounds and getting oversize hounds, but I don't see that much of that around eastern Ky. Since most trialers want to stay under, they avoid crosses that are likely to go over 15, or crosses that have produced offspring that went quite a bit over (16-17"). We had an interesting discussion in one of my education classes today concerning children maturing physically earlier than in the past. I know, you are looking at this and saying "Ramey is a'fixin' to rant and go off topic," but hear my ideas. At least one anatomy/biology professor that I know has said that all meat from the grocery store (chicken, beef, pork, EVERYTHING) has been injected with growth hormones. The class discussion concerned the early onset of puberty, I won't detail it as it would not be proper, but look at middle school kids. When people take in enough of it for enough generations, it shows up. Undesirable parts--scraps, byproducts from the same animals that we eat end up in the better dog foods. Growth hormone=growth=bigger animals: hounds or otherwise. SOmething to think about while you read these posts and talk about how crazy Ramey is! (BTW, my own family says the same thing!)

[Kenny VanHoose]

Come to think of it my dogs have been going through puberty at an earlier age!

[mccall]

Vanhoose your dogs have been starting earlier and are being successful.Are they on roids??????? Congraulations on the successful fall on and off the bench!!!!!

[SilverZuk]

People are afraid to measure a dog that they know is over because if that person judges them the next round they may "retaliate" against them.
It is the truth. Why should they get mad? they know they are packing a dog that is over 15. IF you get caught..you get caught. Don't be mad..be thankful you ever got him in a cast. The times I was measured I just let them measure and go on. I know some of my dogs are under but are right on. Some get upset when they know it is a rule..they know they are packing a big dog..and it is the other handlers right to ask for a measurement on the rule which says 15 inches?

Exactly the way I feel about it, and couldn't have said it better.

I raced motorcycles for years.
The rules say 125cc in the class.
Some guy shows up with a 250cc - Do you think everyone should say "Awe shucks, if I can't beat a 250cc with a 125cc, I shouldn't be out here anyway."
If size doesn't matter, how come so many people run 15" and 16" hounds?
Because they are cool?
No, it is because typically they are faster and in LP speed is an asset.

[J.C. Blair]

In that case, I think Lynn needs to tell BuzzSaw that his height was gonna help him with his speed, ya think its too late to break the news to him Perkins??

Ive ran ARHA on and off since 92, I remember when they would measure em before the hunt too. I like the idea of official measure with state reps.

[danny vansickle]

no,silverzuk,they dont run big hounds cause they get aomethin extra out of the size,mqybe,they just happen to find that special hound that suits them,and it happens to be it a 15 1/2 in body

would someone explain to me how a 15 1/2 in dog has an advantage over a 14 in dog in lp?scoring is based on hunt ability,strikes and kumps,and check power.how does size make a difference?

did i say no i aint runnin that dog cause he is 13 inches when i found jessie?no,he had that special somethin,if he was 15 1/8,i would have prolly passed at that price,but it is a shame,so many good hounds have to be shoved away cause thay are an 1/8th to 1/2 in over.

if they would start official measuring houns,yeah,you MAY get the occasional 15 1/8 to 15 1/2 in there,but you wont have 16 to 16 1/2 in hounds!!!!!!!!!

[HarleyPA]

Hello;

I put off responding to this cause it really doesn't affect me. I have a big male that I believe is over, I'll find out Sunday. I'll quote Pine Mt as best I can. I was talking to him about my male. He responded to me, "why should we penalize the ones that eat good". Ever since then I really haven't worried too much about it.

Ramey, we put harmones into beef for a reason. Do you think we would put something into an animal to make it convert feed better if that thing was just going to sit in there and not get used? That doesn't make sense, at least not from a financial stand point. The other thing is that the body, everythings body, nautrally has harmones. Any animal that goes to slaughter has to have been off of any growth harmone for a set amount of time before the slaughter. The idea being that the body has time to revert back to the nautral level of harmone.

However, the injection sites are specific, and are not to be used for human consumption.

Now back to the subject. If you get beat by a dog that is 1/2 or 1" over, by what you think is speed, I believe your either looking for an excuse or your not a houndsmen. If that dog was faster and was way ahead of your dog then he had speed, but he also had the line control to go with it. And that makes him a better dog doesn't it? In the end a rule is a rule. The problem seems to be in enforcing that rule. Measure the hounds before you sign up, UKC does it, and I haven't seen a problem with it.

If they do start an over 15, I think I might have one to run.

[danny vansickle]

RUN HIM ANYWAY HARLET,I SAY,DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT VANNASTY MEASURIN YA!!!!!!!

I AINT SQUEEEEERRRRED!!!!!!!!!!!!


I CAN SEE SOME PEOPLE MEASURIN 16 IN HOUNDS OUT,BUT,IF A GUY CALLS FOR THE STICK,AND A DOG MEASURES OUT BY 1/4 IN OR SO,THAT TELLS ME ONE THING,HE IS WORRIED AND LOOKIN FOR THE EASY WAY.

THAT MAY PIZZ A FEW OFF,BUT HEY,I AM GOOD AT THAT,I KNOW,RULZ ARE RULZ,BUT I AINT GOIN TO BREAK A FELLOW HOUNDSMENS SPIRIT,OR MAKE HIM MAD OVER A 1/2 IN.

YEAH,THERE ARE A COUPLE REDICULOUS DOGS OUT THERE,HEY,I HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF PACKIN ONE LATELY .BUT FACT IS,SIZE DOES NOT HELP IN LP!!!!!!!!!!

SIZE DOESN'T BEAT YA IN LP......FEAR DOES

[Pine Mt Beagles]

DANNY
LIKE I SAID BEFORE THIS IS NEVER GOING TO BE SETTLED EVERY ONE KNOW'S-- YOU CAN""" PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE, SOME OF THE TIME, BUT NEVER PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME""""ONE QUESTION , SAY SOME ONE HAS A REALLY GOOD 15 IN FEMALE FULL 15 IN AND SOME ONE HAS A TRULY GOOD 151/2 IN MALE .THAT IS A GOOD MATCH FOR YOUR FEMALE . BY MATCH I MEAN" BLOOD LINE ,,NOSE ,FOOT, HUNT, ETC.AND YOU KNOW THAT THE CROSS WILL PRODUCE SOME GOOD HOUNDS NOT JUST FOR NOW BUT FOR FUTURE GEN'S TO COME, ARE YOU GOING TO ANOTHER MALE,, THAT IS NOT AS GOOD, TO STAY IN THE STANDARD YOU SHOULD KNOW, THAT IF YOUR FEMALE IS 15 IN YOU CAN BREED HER TO A 13 IN AND GET 151/5 IN PUPS, SO ARE YOU GOING TO NOT BREED HER.OR ARE YOU GOING TO TRY TO BETTER THE BREED .I THINK THE FEED OF TODAY, AND THE HEALTH CARE WE GIVE OUR HOUNDS MAKE'S A DIFFERENCE. J.M.O. AND" NO I DON'T HAVE A HOUND OVER SIZE AT THIS TIME"

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[jim horn]

tell you what danny from this dayforth i promise you when i draw you i will ask to measure your dog it would better than hear you whine for a hour ,see i have drawed you before

[danny vansickle]

GO FOR IT JIM,I DONT RUN ANY DOGS IN LP THAT ARE OVER,NONE,I WISH I KNEW WHO YOU WAS WHEN YOU DID DRAW ME,I WOULD LOVE TO PUT A FACE TO YOUR NAME,YOU NEVER POST UNLESS IT IS TO STIR SHYT WITH ME,GOOD TO KNOW I STILL HAVE ONE OR TWO FANS OUT THERE,I AM NO LONGER CHARGING FOR AUTOGRAPHS JIM,SO,LOOK ME UP

MEASURE ME,I HOPE YOU DO,I WILL BE AT ATLANTA OHIO ALL WEEKEND,BRING YOUR BEST,AND YOUR MEASURING STAND,YOU CAN MEASURE MY HOLE PACK.

ACCORDING TO MY MEASURING STAND,MY DOGS ARE ALL 15 AND UNDER.

[danny vansickle]

tell you what danny from this dayforth i promise you when i draw you i will ask to measure your dog it would better than hear you whine for a hour ,see i have drawed you before

YOU KNOW SOMETHIN JIM,I CLICKED ON YOUR PROFILE,YOU HAVE 12 MATCHES OUT OF 22,ALL 12 OF THEM ARE DIRECT SLAMS AGAINST MYSELF,OR OTHER GOOD HOUNDSMEN ON THIS BOARD,AND I WOULD BET THAT THE 10 NOT THERE ARE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN DELETED BY THE MODERATOR FOR CAUSING TROUBLE............

I AM SURE YOU ARE AWARE,I WAS BANNED FOR 30 DAYS FOR STIRING TROUBLE,I BELEIVE YOU ARE A PERFECT CANDIDATE FOR A VACATION TOO.............

COME TO ATLANTA AND RUN WITH SOME GOOD DOGS,HEY,MAYBE YOU CAN FIND ONE UP THERE TO BUY,THEN MAYBE YOU CAN WIN A TRIAL OR TWO AND THEN PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHO YOU ARE,TRUTH BE KNOWN,YOU ARE PROLLY JUST ANOTHER TWO FACED TROUBLEMAKER HIDIN BEHIND A DIFERENT NAME,WICH EXPLAINS WHY ALL YOUR POSTS UNDER JIM HORN ARE SO NEGATIVE,I WOULD LOVE TO SEE STONEY BRANCH TRACK YOUR IP AND LET US KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE,SHURELY NO ONE IS THAT JELOUS AND HATEFULL TO SIT BACK AND CONTINOUSLY STIR TROUBLE ON 100% OF THEIR POSTS.........


I THINK YOU NEED A TIME OUT,EVERYONE ON HERE HAVE BEEN GETTIN ALONG LATELY,LETS TRY TO KEEP IT THAT WAY,WHAT DO YOU SAY?

[S.R.Patch]

IMHO, the size standard was not set to decide whether a beagle is a beagle or not, it was set as a guide for what a properly made hound with the gifts and desire we hope for, would not over match the intended purpose(to be followed on foot for viewing the sport) or the game pursued(which would ruin the sport/viewing houndwork).
A hound may be 16"s but the rate and pace at which it hunts may be perfectly fine for following on foot and giving good sport.
When hounds are snatching rabbits up in short order, you've over matched the game and ruined the sport of watching good hound work.

One wise old Pack Master said, when you get your pack to where they routinely catch their hare, you should work towards getting that quality within the smallest package possible for best sport and your enjoyment...

[jim horn]

danny you have been doing a lot better on here but let me ask you question ,what do you think is the bigger problem the size of the dogs or dogs ghost barking and buddy judging it seems that people are letting these mouthie dogs steal hunts; you can always call for a measure on a dog, but very little can be done for these dogs popping off ; good luck this weekend

[CHRIS WHITT]

IMHO, the size standard was not set to decide whether a beagle is a beagle or not, it was set as a guide for what a properly made hound with the gifts and desire we hope for, would not over match the intended purpose(to be followed on foot for viewing the sport) or the game pursued(which would ruin the sport/viewing houndwork).
A hound may be 16"s but the rate and pace at which it hunts may be perfectly fine for following on foot and giving good sport.
When hounds are snatching rabbits up in short order, you've over matched the game and ruined the sport of watching good hound work.

One wise old Pack Master said, when you get your pack to where they routinely catch their hare, you should work towards getting that quality within the smallest package possible for best sport and your enjoyment...

That is the best response I have ever heard on this subject ... great answer