Letter from ARHA

[Panther Creek]

Well, why complain, you can always get an official measurement. Oh, that's right, ARHA doesn't do official measurements.

Well, at least it will be an approved measuring stand. Oh, that's right, PVC pipe or a tacked together yard stick is OK in ARHA.

Well, at least the breed inspector measuring your dog will be trained. Oh, that's right, ARHA doesn't have measuring seminars.

Well, you can always take him to an Official Measurer in case you have doubts. Oh, that's right, no such thing.

I know, wait until the finals of the World Hunt, and maybe you will get measured out. Then you will know that your dog is too big.

Maybe we should all raise little 13" pot-bellied, crooked-legged little pigs. I am sure that would really improve the breed. Let's all keep the littlest male in the litter. He will surely be the most dominant, and make the best rabbit hound.

If ARHA really wants to improve the breed, why not make dogs entered in the field score a certain amount of points on the bench. You could take off a few points for dogs that good nutrition and a strong breeding program caused to grow.

I gave away the best young male I have raised in the last several years this summer because he was in sometimes, and over others. When I read something like this it makes me think I must be the dumbest guy alive to get rid of a big, strong, dominating young dog because he might be pushing the limit.

And to all of those guys who say, "you know he is over ..........," please start at the beginning and read this post again.

13", pot-bellied, crooked-legged little pigs?????
WOW! I know what kinda dogs you like-or don't like!
Just tell us what you REALLY think!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

JUDE
YES" I AM TELLING YOU THAT IS A FACT.... .AND MUCH MORE ,
PINE MT BEAGLES

[randy hicks]

been awhile for me and arha rules, does arha have rep go from club to club and actually show the judges what is the correct way a hound should be measured, and to look at the clubs measuring stands? there is a good article in the better beagler this month on measuring hound by matt slocum

[THALL]

If you run a 13 1/2" dog in the 13" class or a 15 1/2" dog in 15 " class your a cheater. if your dog is too big you know it. If you can live with it so can I. If you don't want guys bitching about your big dog, leave him at home and play by the rules. Official measuring won't stop a cheater he just needs more friends to help him cheat. I've heard guys bragg about championing a dog that was a little over 13", in the 13" class. In the same conversation they said they hated buddy judging.

[fletch]

GUY'S IT ISN'T SIZE OF THE DOG THAT WINS THE HUNTS. IF YOUR 13 OR 14 INCH DOG GET BEAT BY A 15 OR 16 INCH DOG, YOU CAN'T BLAME IT ON THE SIZE OF THE DOG.THERE ARE MANY,MANY,MANY,13 TO 14
INCH DOGS THAT CAN FLAT SMOKE THEM BIG 15 TO 16INCH DOGS. I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS,IT NOT THE SIZE OF THE DOG, BUT THE SIZE OF THE DOGS HEART. MYSELF I DON'T CARE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. BUT I SOON TO RUN MY 14 INCH DOGS WITH THE BIG DOGS AS I WOULD A 11,12,OR 13 INCH DOGS.




Fletch

[Chimney Rock Kennel]

Well, why complain, you can always get an official measurement. Oh, that's right, ARHA doesn't do official measurements.

Well, at least it will be an approved measuring stand. Oh, that's right, PVC pipe or a tacked together yard stick is OK in ARHA.

Well, at least the breed inspector measuring your dog will be trained. Oh, that's right, ARHA doesn't have measuring seminars.

Well, you can always take him to an Official Measurer in case you have doubts. Oh, that's right, no such thing.

I know, wait until the finals of the World Hunt, and maybe you will get measured out. Then you will know that your dog is too big.

Maybe we should all raise little 13" pot-bellied, crooked-legged little pigs. I am sure that would really improve the breed. Let's all keep the littlest male in the litter. He will surely be the most dominant, and make the best rabbit hound.

If ARHA really wants to improve the breed, why not make dogs entered in the field score a certain amount of points on the bench. You could take off a few points for dogs that good nutrition and a strong breeding program caused to grow.

I gave away the best young male I have raised in the last several years this summer because he was in sometimes, and over others. When I read something like this it makes me think I must be the dumbest guy alive to get rid of a big, strong, dominating young dog because he might be pushing the limit.

And to all of those guys who say, "you know he is over ..........," please start at the beginning and read this post again.

I agree 100%.
I have hounds that are from 12" to 17" I run them together and unless it is very open most of the time the little ones are puttting it on the big ones specially in the thicker cover. I have never had someone's dog measured nor will I ever have someone's dog measured.If i walk up to stake with a 13" female and the 4 walk up with 16" males and they beat me it will be because they had better dogs not bigger dogs. A rabbit dog is a rabbit dog no matter what size it is.

[randy hicks]

ARHA OR NKC should really address this issue and go with maybe fifteen in offical since they run anything small to fifteen in the same class. when you hear guys say they dont care about size and some guys do care about size thats fine in a hunting situation but in field trials you shouldnt get to run a hound in the world hunt and beat so many hound to get to the finales just to be measured out by a man who maybe dont care about size but uses this rule to an advantage to to take out a fellow beagler and not to mention one less hound to run against in the finales at the world or any other nkc hunt.

[SilverZuk]

So those that don't care what size hound others run -
Do you care if a judge scores 10 second checks?
Strikes a dog with 2 barks instead of 3?
Doesn't minus a dog until 4 minutes?
A judge doesn't use a watch, just estimates the time?

Those are rules too.
No big deal right?
Why not have no rules at all?
Just go out run your dogs, save yourself the entry fee money, drink beer, cuss, or run through the woods naked?
When registering for a trial you are paying to enter a game with set rules.
I guess I live in a dream world expecting that those rules will be followed and enforced.

The rules are laid out, I prefer to be within them and not wondering/worrying that my dog might be measured every time I walk to the casting stake. You want to push the rules, or worse be completely ignorant when you buddy sells you a "full 15" dog and never have him measured until you get to the world hunt. That is your own stupidity.
You act like they changed the rules on you yesteday.

From what I have seen "fulll 15" means over 15".

[Pine Mt Beagles]

ZUK
YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT BECAUSE MOST JUDGES ,DON'T GO BY ANY RULE'S AT ALL,NOT GIVING'" JUMPS" IS THE BIGGEST AND MOST OFTEN OVER LOOKED,BUT A 151/2 INCH HOUND REALLY BOTHERS PEOPLE AND I DON'T THINK IT'S BECAUSE IT IS A RULE,PEOPLE THINK IF THEY CAN GET ONE DOG OUT" THEY HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING,,,,,,IF ALL PEOPLE WERE SO SET ON RULES THERE WOULD BE A LOT MORE TALK. ABOUT NOT GIVING JUMPS AT 3:00 IN THE EVENING OR THE LONG AND SHORT CHECKS,,,.DOGS WITH NO HUNT ,BACK TRACKING,PULLING DOGS OUT OF THE CHECKS..FIGHTING... FEMALES IN HEAT.... DON'T EVEN MENTION" WELL" YOU HAVE A MASTER OF HOUNDS"" WHO"" ALWAY'S SAY'S I HAVE TO GO WITH THE JUDGE, YEA I KNOW MAYBE ONE IN A HUNDRED MIGHT KNOW THE RULES AND CHANGE THE JUDGES SCORE.MY POINT IS THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE AND NOT JUST ON THE 15 IN DOG'S.AND TO MUCH MORE TO MENTION AND IN ALL OF THE YEARS I HAVE RUN I HAVE PROTESTED TO THE MASTER OF HOUNDS """""ONE"""TIME TOOK ABOUT 30 SECONDS .ANYWAY GOOD LUCK AND
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Just my opinion, Why dont the watchdog commitee adapt a honest bunch of guys and measure all dogs in question at 1 of 5 big hunts? Then give a offical card that cost 20.00 dollars.They are all about the money anyhow. Cheating is a club too club problem , why dont clubs have there moh do the measuring and then make that club liable if he measures out the next time maybe even adapt 1/4 inch rule from different times measured,We will not all measure the same and oh yea, no show poses. Until you start at the bottom (make clubs more liable with pulling charters ) youll see it clean up. The moh is the most important position at any club out there , its always looked over the most. Make the clubs belly up when they cheat

[fletch]

NO,I NOT SAYING THAT THE BUDDY JUDGEING,SHORT CHECKS,SCORING DOG WHEN THERES NOT EVEN A RABBIT UP OR EVEN THERE, IS RIGHT.BUT THAT DOESN'T GOT ANYTHING TO
DO WITH THE SIZE OF THE DOG.CHIMNEY ROCK KENNEL,BUDDY YOU MAKE MORE SENSE THAN ANYONE ON HERE,ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. GUYS LET THESE GUYS BRING THOSE
BIG DOGS TO THE TRIALS,AND JUST TAKE YOUR LITTLE DOGS AND HUNT.IF THEIR BIG DOG BEATS YOU ,THEIR DOGS WHERE BETTER DOGS (BOTTOMLINE).

NO CHEATING.SIZE OF DOGS IS A BAD EXCUSE FOR THOSE THAT CAN NOT WIN WITH THEIR SMALL DOGS.
Fletch

[Mark H]

Jimbo i agree totaly and silverzuk you have made a great point that is something i have said for a long time but the guys that run oversize dogs just dont see it as a rule violation.They think that a 12 in hound should run with a 16 in and as far as the hound is concerned they are correct. but our rules in the game we play say nothing over 15in. It has nothing to do with who is bettering the breed and who is not if you come to a hunt where the rules state no hound shall measure over 15in and you enter it anyways you have just violated the rules and think that anyone who challenges your hounds size must be scared to run against your hound. Wrong they are just trying to play by rules.

[rock pushin rabbit hunter]

A.R.H.A. has worse problems than over-sized dogs being ran.I think their worst problem is the buddy judging at these big hunts.This is enough to make any field trialer want to throw his hands up and give it up.I think ARHA should send a member of the watch dog commitee out on some of these casts just to keep judges in check.Get the crooked judging straightened out,at least at the big hunts,and then worry about the size of the dogs.If the judging situation isn't taken care of,it will eventually destroy the sport.A word of caution to ARHA,don't bite the hand that feeds you.There are more over sized dogs running in your hunts than you think.Acomidate them with their own class or raise the size limit,to eliminate them all together would very foolish and rough on your wallets.Just a dumb Hillbillys opinion.

[pine top]

well i have read and reread all the coments on this therad
and i wuold like to put my two cents in if there is a problem in arha little pack with dogs going over 15 in . there are rules in place to self govern this within the lp div .
but it starts with the bread inspector voted in to office by his are her club if thay will do there job to the best of there abilaty in my openion 90% of over sized dogs will go away and with that said we as handlers can get the rest gone by simple having a dog misserd at the poles you cant fuss about dogs over 15 in and not do your part every person that has a dog over 15 in knows this are at lest suspects it so insist on your bread inspector to do there job if thay dont theclub voted them in and can get them gone .
there is the young pup that gets reg at 6 mounth old all is good the first fall then he are she comes back in the open class 16 in tall not the bread inspector falt the pup was under at time of reg but if some one suspects this pup is to tall and does not have it misserd then it is there fault not arha lp div .
but the thing that i here in most of the comments is the trust you put in the person missering your dog i personaly have a dog that has been cheked probly 15 times over the last 3years from fla / ala/ ms/ind/all over he is 14 3/4 to 15 not over never he stands well not a problem to messure but way does he have to be messurd so many times i agrae with you put a check sation at all big 5 hunts charge 20.00 all dogs found to be 15 and under permanit card if the dog is found to go over gone there and then no 2end are 3ed chance but by a arha offical that is certified to do so.
i have been in arha 10 years i have been in hunts from fla to ind i have seen a lot of judges and moh i can not recall ever seeing out and out cheating some mistakes yes some judgment calls i might have done different yes but not flat out cheating .
now i know some of you have dogs that are 14 3/4 and if this dog is hard to messer thay can vary easy go over and this is more than like'ly going to be a problem for you and me untill we can get some thing permanit in place so when the rules com meets again lets all submit a rule change for better are wrose but untill then lets use the rules we have in place it will make things better

jerry carter ms state rep lp div

[rock pushin rabbit hunter]

If you think out and out cheating does'nt happen ,you'r only kidding yourself.It happens in subtle ways that only the most experienced trialers can pick up on.When a pack of hounds is out of sight,a judge can come back with any score they want and all they have to say is that it was a judgement call.If someone was there to oversee these judges,it would go on alot less.I know there will probably never be anything done to help fix this,it's just part of the game we play and should just learn to accept it.It is just disheartening to know that such a great sport has so many flaws.We all know how the game is played,and if we can't deal with the realitys of it,I guess we should find another game.REALITY CHECK!!! There is buddy judging,there is little clicks,and there are dogs getting pushed through bcause of who their owner is or where they are from.WAKE UP.