Redtick's field trial debate thread

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:39 am

Swing, that would be better than just a judge by himself. But, a judge has to be able to keep up with the dogs in thick brush. He would be just guessing. I do appreciate your thought and imput. New ideas will help improve competition beagling. Maybe your idea will take hold.

Ted Peercy · Post by **Ted Peercy** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:43 am

Dave,
I don't personally know anyone that has responded on this post. A goal of mine was to meet Lynn Perkins at the World this past April. He has some intelligent posts and seems well respected on here and I wanted to meet him as I did Big Dog for the same reasons a couple of years ago. I never caught up with him. But I do have a dog in this fight. I run Little Pack and currently have a bloodline that goes back 9 generations in my kennel, with some outcrosses. I've owned begles for 46 years. In the 8 years or so that I have been trialing, my kennel has produced 2 grand champions, 8 champions, and 2 more that could become champion on any given hunt. Am I proud of their accomplishment. Yes Sir. You don't have to mention me or my dogs by name. When you attack the format I run, you are throwing off on them. I passed by some deer hunters lining a rifle the other day and went a quarter mile down the road to a nursery and turned 4 dogs out. I spent the next 30 minutes trying to keep them from harking to the gun shots. Are they gun dogs. Yes Sir.
Also, I've spent a little time looking for your name or kennel in hound standings in AKC, NKC, UKC, and PKC formats, but cannot find you. Can you help me out there? If your dogs are as good as you say and you can document it, I might want to cross in. But if all it takes to be a professional is years of beagle experience and an opinion, then I am one also. LOL Ted Peercy-Willow Springs Kennel

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:50 pm

Redtick:
I am sorry to see you starting the same kind of stuff again and again.No matter what you claim,you are one of the worst about personal attacks.By calling Todd "toad" and implying that Lynn might be a part of a group that cheats.If someone implyed that you might be part of a group that cheats I think you would quickly take offense.Those things are in fact personal attacks.You claim to be a "professional" beagler.If that is true then I am sorry for what beagling has become.To again address some of your various statements and comments on trials that you have ran.The first PKC beagle hunt that you ran in Indiana..I was on that cast.If there was anything funny going on I would have been the first to say something.Craig tull is not my buddy in any way shape or form.The fact is that we just got beat by a better dog that day.You saw as well as me that his dog turned down trash.the rabbit we ran that you later(many days Later)claimed was a squirrel was jumped in a thicket at least 60 to 70 yards out into the field.If it was in fact a squirrel then your dog was barking on trash.So which is it?either your dog will run trash or it was a rabbit?You constantly say you want to run for money,that you are a pro beagler.I have offered you that opportunity before and will repeat it again.There are several different ways we can do it but I would propose that we put two of your dogs up against two of Lynns.We would have two judges that we both agree on that we would pay 50 per judge.you pay 25. 00 to each judge annd I pay the same.I have no problem with Terry Runyon as one of the judges.I know he is a friend of yours and you have bred to his males but the one time that I met him he impressed me as being 100 percent honest and also as soomeone that knows dogs.I would submit one of the Browns from up around ft wayne as being another possible judge.I met them one time and they also impressed me as being honest and knowing dogs.We would would run UKC rules with only the judges scoring the hounds.I think we want the hounds to get what they earn and not gain or lose anything due to "handling".We would run in your part of the country as I dont mind giving your dogs the homefield advantage.The only thing I would ask to insure fairness about cast sites is that I am allowed to pick the one or twu cast sites out of a total of about ten or so.I dont need to see them but I would like to at least have some some sort of description of all ten so you cant take me to a place that you have ran every day all day for two weeks.We would run for a thousand dollars.The cash is to be there that day.Someone that wee both agree on will hold the money.If this is agreeable to you then please let me know so we can the ball rolling.I have ran with what you consider a good dog and I have ran with Lynns dogs.I have no problem putting up the cash even though I am just an amateur and will always be one.I have given you every advantage I can so you will take me up on this offer.This wager is not meant as any kind of knock on UKC as I like how UKC does its scoring for the most part.Probably the one thing that I dont like is you have to be a fairly aggressive handler to get what is due to you in alot of casts.The thing that I take issue with is simply how you conduct yourself on these boards and your constant attacks on both individuals,hound accomplishments,and the various formats that you dont approve of.
However on a more positive note I will say this about you.You stand a dog on the bench as good or better as anyone I have ever seen.To me that is probably the only redeeming quality I have witnessed out of you to date.Please reply soon

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennels

Stump Jumper · Post by **Stump Jumper** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:35 pm

I have been watching this topic from the begining and I have to agree with JMurphy. I think it is time put some dogs on the ground and settle this debate. A grand is a steep wager in my book but Redtick if your hounds are all of that, like you say then all that should be left is the Runnin. Will Redtick accept this offer?I am interested to see how this turns out

bullboy · Post by **bullboy** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:15 pm

i'm waiting to see the reply since lynn placed 2 and 3 in the little world must be buddie judging it always is ps tick no one can tell me theres no bs in ukc i've heard the stories about fishline and washers at coonhunts making up another dog to fill the card honey holeing for your buddies dog and then if you want to put money in the mix

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:21 pm

I have made this sort of offer before and it was turned down.I think it is reasonable to expect an answer within a certain amount of time.I know Redtick pretty much gets on every site every day so I think it is reasonable to expect him to either accept or turn down this wager by Wed at 10 pm central time.
Thanks

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

MasonsBeagles · Post by **MasonsBeagles** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:14 pm

Redtick cant reply just yet he is busy combing through every dogpound and Humane Society in a 300 mile radius trying to find his next brag hound. Until he finds it.....THE SEARCH CONTINUES>

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:03 am

Ole Redtick was busy this weekend running his squirrel dogs for cash in a PKC money squirrel hunt. I got beat by a better dog on that particular day. I was also busy showing one of my coonhounds which I did get a win on. I enjoy my beagles but I have other great hunting dogs as well good beagles.

I still have the tape made at the first PKC rabbit hunt and it clearly shows me and another cast member (who hunts squirrel dogs also) talking about whether the dogs were going to tree the squirrel. As for the dog I was hunting, because my much better dog was in heat , I was hunting the ARHA Little Pack Rabbit Champion that was gunshy and she WAS probably running trash. For all I know, she may have got her Championship wins running trash. I sold her cheap.

I would have to review this thread, but I don't believe I called anyone Toad on this thread. I do know of a fellow named Todd that in my opinion, doesn't go by the UKC rules. Rules that he should know very well.
I am not accepting any wager at this time. But, if PKC evers come up with an acceptable single set of beagle rules, I would be glad to meet any one of you in a PKC cast with the money on the line. Hopefully, a large amount of money.

I see all you guys swearing your dogs don't win ARHA Little Pack Hunts on 100 yard, possible trash trash tracks. Yet everytime I go to one of their hunts, every cast I am on seems to be won on one these very questionable tracks. Odd isn't it?

Murph, your challenge seems intersting but I get the same kind of challenges with my coonhounds and squirrel dogs. I just don't have the time to fool with them. Bring your best dogs to one of the local hunts. I may get the whole thing on video tape. I tape my beagles hunting them with a gun, training them, competing with them, and get $20 a copy for the DVDs I make. I have UKC, ARHA, and PKC Beagle Hunts on them. Buy a copy and make your own decission on the dog's work. Instead of trying to win bet hunts, I will bet I will put every $20 check I receive in the bank. I get checks in the mail nearly every day. Cha-Ching!

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:29 am

Redtick:
Why am I not surprised.You constantly have hearlded the advantages of UKC rules over other formats.I am not swearing anything about the arha or any dogs that run in it. I simply offered to run with you under UKC rules in your home area yet you backed down again and started talking about pkc. If you are truly interested in the cash then these dogs that you claim are 100 yard champions shouldnt worry you a bit.I cant do anything more than offer to run in your area using judges that you know and under a set of rules that you favor.I have have given you all the best of it yet you still run away
.Buying one of your tapes would do nothing for me.You claim to be a pro beagler and great breeder/houndsman.I am just a poor handler who runs dogs sometimes.Yet I know just enough to know a quality dog when I see it.You sell gunshy,trashrunning dogs.Why does that not surprise me?I have a feeling we will run again together .So far the times we have met I beat you.Unfortuately at your home club we didnt draw out in the field together.I purposely went there in hopes I would draw out with you .I was beat by the mystery man dog.Not cheated,not outhandled,just beat.But thats ok I am not a pro by any means and that dog is a good dog who has been known to win.Of course you and I did meet on the bench.What happened there?Not a big deal to me because in the field is where it matters.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

Post by **Aaron Bartlett** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:41 pm

J.,
Give Redtick a chance to get clearance on the money. Im sure he would have to get Francis Gale's approval before he wagers that kind of money. I know with all the tapes he sells and the big waiting list he has on all his "born naturally trash free" beagle, squirrel and coonhound pups that little bit of pocket change probably isnt much but he may have to do extra chores around the house before she will give him that extra allowance.

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:13 pm

Aaron.lol .I wont keep this thing going because I realize that it doesnt add anything positive to Bev's board.However I dont want people to think that people like Redtick are what UKC is all about.I like UKC and think that it has alot to offer to the beagling public.I think beaglers in general are a good group.I hate to see good people's accomplishments lessened by others.I could give literally dozens of examples but will recite a couple of quick ones here.I talked to Lynn Perkins this morning.He was as excited for Bobbie and Paul Prevot as he would have been for himself.When I voiced that I still would have liked to see him win,his reply was that I wouldnt if I would have been there& seen how that win affected that couple.Thats class!When competing on the bench at Redticks clubI won not because I am such a great handler as I am actually a very poor one but rather because when it came down to the final two dogs Ralph Saunders gave me pointers on how to stand my dog even though I was competing against a friend of his.Thats class!My goal is not even to tear down Redtick as most of the time I simply feel sorry for him.I dont like the piling on he gets sometimes even though I think he brings much of it onto himself.However when he starts this stuff of tearing down the accomplishments of others and their hounds I will always say something that reveals his complete lack of credibility.I have let this thread degrade into less then I wanted it to be and I apologize for that.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:51 pm

Redtick you are a Glutton for punishment. I run almost all UKC right now,as for cheating it happens,I'd say all formats have that problem. Most of the time its inconsistancy by a Judge,on purpose or by mistake. When I Judge a cast I let the cast Judge,there are a few Judgement calls I have to make but for the most part the cast decides. I judge line control consistant every time and run the clock by the rules,those are the realy big things,checks have to be taken and runable to score them. If the rules are followed its a real good format and a fair one. Thats why you have everybody involved in the cast to make sure things are ran right,there are exceptions and they will weed themselves out or won't draw many at there hunts. For the most part UKC hunts are fun,some folks get a little to competive but they spend alot of money EVERY weekend trialing,Running the challange series and wanting to win money from the incentive fund to help pay for it,I see othing wrong with it,and if you have the dog power to beat there dog they won't complain. I garentee you'll see some fine hounds in UKC hunts and the ones that can't cut it you don't see for long. There not crazy running idiots like people think they have to be able to Jump,run with control and be a good check hound or they will not go far. The real problem I see in trials is hounds that lack nose.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:20 pm

Stoney, if I needed money for anything and needed to ask Frances Gail for some, she would give me all of the money I ever would need for anything I thought I needed for, no questions asked. She bought me a new truck for my birthday one year. She may buy me a new one for my birthday this year. She is a very sweet lady by anyone's standards and has a lot of friends all over the country. I am a very lucky man. Let's leave her out of this.
You are right about me selling enough tapes and pups to have a dollar or 2. But, I don't squander my money. I do use the money to buy a good dog every now and then. I have Champion coonhounds, Champion squirrel dogs, and Champion beagles. All carry bloodlines I have had for a good while, some for up to 10 generations. I just bought a new computer to edit my video tapes with.
You spoke of Ralph Saunders. I would like to see apply for the position of PKC Spokesman for The PKC Beagle program. PKC sure needs someone to build their beagle program, it could go under if some changes are not made real soon. I would apply but I am retired and while I consider Larry Meeks a good friend and a very good Christian, I am too independent and outspoken to be an effective spokeman for any beagle organization. I like being able to say what I feel like saying instead of having to be careful not to step on any one's toes. So, if I think 100 yard Champions are counterfeit, I like being able to say it without worrying what my boss would think. I think PKC beagling has a lot of potential under the right leadership. Larry is my friend but he doesn't know anything about competition beagling and was poorly influenced by some folks that gave him poor advise. Having 2 sets of rules with 1 set not being popular is proof of that. The PKC Small Pack option was a BIG mistake. The PKC beagle program is suffering badly because of it. There would not be a Hound & Hunter set of rules if I didn't raise a fuss at the first PKC beagle hunt about it. But, it has proven to be the most popular set of rules. No one hunts under the other rules. You just can't hunt for money with those rules, it is too easy to cheat.
So far this thread proves to me there is an interest in competing for cash prizes, some folks have not tried other types of formats, so they think their format is the best without knowing the difference, and that there are a lot of folks that like to bash me instead of saying something intelligent. I reckon there is no rule about folks having to make an intelligent message to be able to post on this board.
I will say this thread has certainly drawn some interest. Maybe my plan worked.

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:24 pm

Redtick I was willing to let it die after proving how counterfeit that you are.But again you gloss over the facts to try and push your own agenda.First off you address the post to Stoney then you imply he has said something about Ralph Saunders.I dont see where he mentioned him at all.I mentioned him as a beagler who conducts himself with class.Another thing you mentioned 100 yard champions yet my dog has won a UKC world qualifying event. I guess he isnt a 100 yard champion.I also offered to run against you for cash using UKC rules and UKC judges.You quickly ran the other way.You keep trying to imply that someone is trying to defend a particular format.I have repeatedly said that I like UKC and run UKC.My problem is simply with how you try to make yourself look big by trying to lessen the accomplishments of good individuals and their hounds.Here is your main problem,you desperately and I mean desperately want to be someone in the beagling world.I have seen you try it by buying champion dogs running down other people and their hounds and twisting the truth to the point that you are quite simply a liar, even running down your own organization when they wouldnt do what you want.everything but paying your dues.Now your big thing is that you are going to be big in PKC.you can try and convince these folks that you have some sort of influence over Larry Meeks but I just dont see it.I sure didnt see it at the the first PKC hunt.He didnt seem too impressed with you at all.Where we do agree is that I also think Mr Meeks is a good manand way too good a businessman to ever let you be the frontman for pkc.now as for your contention that the small pack format has had something to do with PKC not taking off,I just dont see it.I can tell you of several people that could not get there paperwork from PKC to even begin holding hunts.I dont know whose fault that was so I wont lay that at anyones door.I want PKC to be successful.I like to run in just about all formats without trying to tear down the ones I dont favor.The way I look at it if PKC is successful then that is another brick in the wall to stop the anti hunters.That is the group I am against.Whether you realize it or not you play right into their hands with alot of the crap you pull.And if my posts are not intelligent then my only defense is that you have lead me by example in that for approx the last 2 years or so.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

pztrailman · Post by **pztrailman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:29 pm

redtick

I reckon there is no rule about folks having to make an intelligent message to be able to post on this board.

You should be glad there aren't any rules. I think you would be one of the first to go.