Redtick's field trial debate thread

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:12 am

Swing, give UKC trials a try, you may end up liking them better. I am glad we are not butting heads like we once were.

I have certainly paid some dues for speaking my mind on some contraversial topics.

Swing, I very much agree with you on the cheating and underhanded stuff.

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:53 pm

not trying to argue here, but what makes you think ukc is or will be any better/honest? in ukc (coondogs) a good handler with a lesser dog can easily beat out a poor handler with a good dog. a good friend of mine has the #1 producing english dog in ukc and its kinda funny to hear all his stories

he has to tell. not that ukc is a bad org., but i really dont think its the promised land as some here think its gonna be. personally i think you guys shouls start a whole new registry as was talked about. that way you can take the best of all the formats and blend it together and at the same time, eliminate the faults of each also. just my opinion... and i know that would be a costly and time consuming project but youd be a lot better off.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:34 am

Blackdirt, the main 2 advantages of UKC over ARHA are that a rabbit has to be seen in front of the dogs for plus points in UKC and the majority of the cast scores the dogs instead of a judge off by himself.

As for leadership, I personally think UKC's beagle management is in office because his brother-in-law is his boss more than his ability to go by UKC rules.

So ARHA is not the only registry that has management problems.

I have video tape of a cast I was on with current ARHA LP officers serving as judges. Small wonder a dog that came from one of the officers kennels won the cast. I put it on one of my beagle videos.

I have been to a lot of UKC casts, both daytime and nite time casts. I never base my breeding program on titles won in their registry but I can say that with the other registries also. You need to hunt with a dog to judge his ability, not rely on some title that may be as phony as a three dollar bill.

A few years back Frances Gail and I talked about starting another registry, we believe we have the resources to do it. But, we are both retired and didn't want the job.

Blackdirt, the same guy that you got your information about UKC has told me about your beagles.

He hasn't called me for a while, please ask him to give me a call.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:12 am

Redtick wrote:Blackdirt, the main 2 advantages of UKC over ARHA are that a rabbit has to be seen in front of the dogs for plus points in UKC and the majority of the cast scores the dogs instead of a judge off by himself.

As for leadership, I personally think UKC's beagle management is in office because his brother-in-law is his boss more than his ability to go by UKC rules. So ARHA is not the only registry that has management problems.

I have video tape of a cast I was on with current ARHA LP officers serving as judges. Small wonder a dog that came from one of the officers kennels won the cast. I put it on one of my beagle videos.
So Redtick you are basiclly accusing the officals of cheating for this dog,you don't feel the dog deseved to win?

I have been to a lot of UKC casts, both daytime and nite time casts. I never base my breeding program on titles won in their registry but I can say that with the other registries also.

You need to hunt with a dog to judge his ability,
This is some very good advice

not rely on some title that may be as phony as a three dollar bill.

Now i have disscussed this with you before,regardless of how you feel what titles my dogs have earned i am proud of them and most people are proud of their hounds titles they have.Just because you disagree means squat to me.Best thing you can do is not bring this back up for you know what will happen again Bev will ban that

A few years back Frances Gail and I talked about starting another registry, we believe we have the resources to do it. But, we are both retired and didn't want the job.

Blackdirt, the same guy that you got your information about UKC has told me about your beagles. He hasn't called me for a while, please ask him to give me a call.

Have you ever once thought that the problem with these kennel clubs might not be them but maybe YOU,
Dave's problems with the formats=
1)nkc little pack-score on squirrels,cheating officals,don't have to see the rabbits
2)ukc-Management,because so and so is a brother or brother-in-law
3)Pkc-because 2 sets of rules,and what kind of champion will we have one that you see a rabbit to score and one you don't

I'm sure there is problems come up here and there but for one person to have problems with all this,makes you kinda say HMMMMMMMMMMMM

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:38 pm

Lynn, my positions and opinions are consistant. A lot of what you put is related to my feelings about Little Pack (Small Pack) rules. They allow what I consider inferior dogs win. I have always said that and that is what I believe. On the LP hunt I was talking about, I was hunting a little female that has 3 straight 1st place wins in the only 3 UKC hunts she had been in. The entire cast determined which dogs got which points. Not some judge off by himself that could possibly be showing kennel favortism.

Lynn, your dogs may be great or you could be part of some type of click that favors each other's dogs. What I am getting at is a thread I read on a board (I truely can't remember which one) about an ARHA "Kentucky Mafia" versus an "Ohio Mafia". To me, it sounds like some clicks are using underhanded dealings for certain guys to win. One guy that was supposed to be in the "Kentucky Mafia" wins a lot in ARHA.

Lynn, you may have great dogs but until I see them in person, your dog's titles would have little value to me. I hope you are winning fair and square and have no reason to believe otherwise.

As for the UKC official, I haven't said anything about him that I haven't said to his boss. Apparently, UKC has trouble finding good help. They have fired some officials and then ended up firing their replacements. I do think if a good replacement could be found, they would consider getting rid of him.

Bev could delete me at any time. But, that wouldn't change anything. And, I am not the kind of person to do this, but this board, like most other message boards, is of the type where anyone that would want to post annonomously, can do so by buying some software and using another "user name". Again, I wouldn't post that way but anyone could do that as long as the format is like it is. ALL of my posts will be under my usual handle "Redtick" and with my real name, Dave Haugh, attached. You don't have to agree with me. I can debate the issues without becoming bitter enemies. There are some folks that can not rationally debate the issues. And, it doesn't matter which registry they favor.

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:55 pm

Redtick wrote:You don't have to agree with me. I can debate the issues without becoming bitter enemies. There are some folks that can not rationally debate the issues. And, it doesn't matter which registry they favor.

good statement dave. i agree 100%.

im not a trialer... i was just making a statement from an unbiased, un-involved point of view. if i was gonna trial, personally id go to an arha one. maybe this new ukc thing will be better, but only time will tell.

and dave- your subtle "knock" on my dogs

... my buddy also told ME about YOUR dogs... so i guess were even

. go find someone else to argue with cause i aint bitin'.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:38 pm

Blackdirt, sometimes it is best to be like a lot of folks in the entertainment industry are, say anything you want about them, just get the name right. I know the fellow we are talking about a lot longer than you have and he always talks about other guys dogs

. And, I am sure he has raked mine over the coals many, many times with some of my other coondog friends and other people we both know. I would wonder if he didn't talk about my dogs!
Please ask him to give me call, I can't get a hold of him since his phone number has changed. I like him with all of his faults. Heck, he may know about a few of mine.

bullboy · Post by **bullboy** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:17 am

redtick I guess all the judges at the little world ,the world, the nationals,and ky state hunt all must be in the mafia lynn's placed dogs at all those big hunts it's got to be everyone because they pick judges at the event.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:48 am

How many hunts has he won in UKC beagle hunts? Not that there could not be some hanky panky that goes on at their hunts also. But, it is much harder to pull it off, especially if all of the cast members know the rules. The entire cast can vote on most of the scoring, so 1 biassed judge can not determine the winner. Everyone says the judges are unbiassed. I personally don't believe it and think it goes against human nature. I have stood next to a number of judges that made poor decissions on UKC hunts and seen them get over ruled. These were veteran beaglers.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:08 am

Redtick i'm not using swings post to argue with you,if you want to DEBATE as you call it start a new post on this subject and we'll go from there.If you are done looking silly then shut the

up and be done with your dead horse

cause you've done beat it to death,mister

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:21 am

Lynn, let's see some UKC wins on those dogs.

Of course, the entire cast has a say on who the winner may be, not just a member of "The Kentucky Mafia".

We have been down this road before! If you want to debate the issues, we can do it on another thread. If you just want to keep up the B.S. both of us are speading, I don't think there is much to talk about. Neither one of us are presenting the best image of ourselves.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:20 am

Redtick, I know im from VA, but I want to join the Kentucky Mafia. Its funny how people talk about Buddy judging. I had never been to a ARHA trial or met any of the Judges. I went to my 1st trial Labor Day in Elkhorn City KY. My bitch took 4th. I have since been to 5 other trials in 3 States and placed at all of them. I championed a little dog in those hunts with a win in North Carolina and places in VA and KY.I met new folks at every hunt. Yes Im sure some Buddy Judging happens, but dont think it is everywhere.
I know a lot of awful stuff happens in UKC as well. Yes I have been to some, and know of Denny Duggan (out handle) people to win the UKC World hunt. It happens all of the time.
As far as seeing a rabbit goes, that is ridicuolous. I guess a hunting judge would sometimes not see one that his dog was not scoring on. Having to see a rabbit leaves it up to luck who will win a hunt. If a judge knows anything about dogs, he will know whether or not the dogs are running a rabbit or not.
Also if it sounds like Im tooting my dogs horn, I am. I am very happy with her, and dont like people discrediting dogs they know nothing about.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:28 am

Redtick wrote:Lynn, let's see some UKC wins on those dogs. Of course, the entire cast has a say on who the winner may be, not just a member of "The Kentucky Mafia".
We have been down this road before! If you want to debate the issues, we can do it on another thread. If you just want to keep up the B.S. both of us are speading, I don't think there is much to talk about. Neither one of us are presenting the best image of ourselves.

Redtick first let's get something out of the way,I DON"T like you at all.You are entitled to your opinion of me and my dogs.I will have to say that i am NO member of any mafia,i really don't like you saying that either but as i have know for years thats your style.

Yes we have been down this road and i will not go down it with you again,i have came to realize that you do not know a dog even if it bit you in the ASS,also you are an idiot when trying to debate as you call it all you do is get more stubborn in you explanations you dream up.

Do you gun over all your dogs?I know you wouldn't promote a gunshy dog,you know a guy of your caliber in the dog world.Where are all these so called high calibered,high priced,next world champion BEAGLE pups you claim to have put out??I've not seen nor heard about any coming from the famous redtick kennels,i capitolized beagle because i don't want to hear crap about your coonhounds.

I will make things clear to you about UKC,first there are no clubs in my county or surrounding counties,and unlike you i'm not driving all night to go to any hunt,if there is one close by but the biggest reason it doesn't appeal to me is i would hate to have a handler like you or you (as far as that goes) have to maybe decide my fate of winning the cast because for some reason i just get the feeling your not a completly HONEST person

.

Like i said before you have your opinions and i have mine,you are entitled to yours as i am mine.I don't like the fact that you run your mouth about other peoples hounds titles and exspect them to not say nothing,i shouldn't have not even commented to you over this for i knew were it ws going and that you are not mentally compatiable to see no other way then your own.so no more on this,if you want to DEBATE

futher just send me a PM where i can really tell you how i feel about you.If you want to end it,then let it go

PS i had swings permission on this thread to DEBATE

you back,i really wish you'd start another thread on this and get others opinions on your comments about little pack

xdawg · Post by **xdawg** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:37 am

Redtick...

I'm setting here wondering to myself why or even how you can judge a dog that you honestly know nothing about...

I run UKC and have run against some ARHA hounds that could burn it up in UKC also...

Lynn has some fine hounds, watch and see.... Old Buzz is reproducing well and i'm sure in time you'll see some of his hounds winning in UKC.

I don't understand why you want to call people out? Have you accomplished all you can in UKC? How did you do Worlds or Nationals?

-Jack
UKC'er Through And Through Keepin It Real....

mud · Post by **mud** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:29 pm

I don't know redtick.I know Lynn from talking to him through emails.I would not know him if he walked off the street.I don't field trial just gun hunt and pack run with friends.However I find Lynn to be a quality individual willing to help anyone.I was looking at a few Northway dogs. Lynn used to be the owner of one of the dogs.He was gracious and helpful to me.I got in touch with him on 3 seperste occasions with questions.I feel he tried to answer honestly and to the best of his ability.I offered an apology for taking up his time.He got back in touch again offering his help anyway he could.I have seen him on this board put dogs up for sale for his friends and others.It did not work out in the purchase of the hounds but I would like to thank him again for treating me like a friend when we had never met. Phil