UKC 's New format ?

swing · Post by **swing** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:18 am

How is the judging going to be done as far as checks and dog work, will there be a judge running with the dogs or is the gallary going to do all the scoring?

swing · Post by **swing** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:47 am

Im not going to even respond to that last post, I will wait for someone with some knowledge to answer my question.
All I got to say Redtick, you are a piece of work.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:07 am

If you arent on the dogs how can you score them right?

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:53 am

Swing.....The way I understand it in a nutshell is that there will be 5 dog cast. You will have active and non active handlers. The judge and active handlers will stay together and everything will be scored out loud by the judge. I understand that a judge will not be running behind the dogs scoring alone. I do know that all dogs will get struck in that barks before a rabbit is produced, they will all strike in for the same points, if the rabbit dont get produced ALL dogs struck in take minuses, but once it is produced no other dogs get struck. The Judge does all scoring......but the active handlers have to witness it and I think can question it. Once the rabbit circles, handlers and judge will be looking for a line to mark just as if hunting...when the dogs start coming into view the judge will be scoring minuses and checks out loud in the presence of handlers. All dogs who cross the line in 15 seconds will get the same amount of points. Casts will be 1 1/2 hour long....and the dog will be disqualified after 3rd or 4th minus.

I am just trying to go by memory, but I think I have m ost of that correct. I do know they are trying to eliminate every possibility of buddy judging, favortism and handlers winning instead of dogs while still promoting a clean running dog. And all dogs will be CERTIFIED(solo a rabbit to the gun) before they are given Champion status.

I know I need to get me some more fire power but think I will wait and see what it takes. I can tell already a guy better have a clean, hard hitting hound, that dont babble, skirt or swing(no pun intended).

Hope I didnt confuse you more than you already were. Take care.

Randy

Huntin54 · Post by **Huntin54** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:03 am

What is this new style called. I have been reading about it for a while and just wondering if it was a done deal or not.

Cork Legue · Post by **Cork Legue** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:54 pm

It's a done deal!
The UKC Performance Pack is on its way!!!!
Randy did a great job explaining the new system!
A dog that hunts hard,Runs strong,and MUST Run CLEAN!!!
This dog Will Dominate in this new format!!!
Thanks Cork Legue...

MDH68 · Post by **MDH68** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:49 pm

One thing they have eliminated is the possibility of Reddick running in this format. As he has already beat the new format up, even before the first dogs hit the ground. By eleminating him its a success already. It must sound like a daycare at his house with all the whining and crying he does.

Mike

swing · Post by **swing** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:12 pm

I just have a few questions about the scoring I guess, isnt what you just described pretty much the way the UKC does it already?
I know I am confusing everyone even more, could maybe the rules be posted and let people send in some advice to what is already established rules and see if there needs to be some changes made before the new format hits the market.
I know I am going to try and promote it out this way, if it is going to try to bring back the best all around beagle for the time they are on the ground.
I liked the idea that they had before, where the judge judged just like in P.P. but the gallery judged also and you combined the scores when the cast was over, I would think that would do away with buddy judging.
I know Redtick dont like a judge out alone judging but what it sounds like in a road and what it looks like when your right on top of the hounds is 2 different things, I know, I have been there.
I think that idea is atleast worth a try before it is kicked under the table.

Huntin54 · Post by **Huntin54** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:07 pm

So is there clubs that are already adopting this new format. Let me know when the trials are going to start for this. I definately want to see this if they are what you say.

dmbarnes · Post by **dmbarnes** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:53 pm

Swing, It is my understanding that the active handlers need to stay up with the judge. It is also my understanding that all the handlers can choose to be inactive and leave all the scoring up to the judge. I beleive that the rules are in place at least for the first year. The rules are very similar to ARHA PP rules as far as scoring checks and minuses. There will not be any jump points awarded only strike points. If all handlers choose to be inactive then there will not be any lines scored. I haven't seen the rules yet, but this is what Matt Glomski and Aaron Bartlett has told me. I think that Randy did a good job in his description.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:05 pm

I wish it all of the success it deserves but you are right, Ole Redtick WON'T be participating.

Yeah, the old "what it sounds like on the road and what it looks like when you are on top of the dogs" sounds like the line a judge uses when he picked his buddy's dog over the dog that was doing what it sounded like in the road.

If you get a whole cast running behind the dogs, they are going to be turning the rabbit more than just a judge does which is bad enough. No wonder there is so many checks, every time the judge turns the rabbit by crashing after the dogs, the rabbit gets turned and a check is man made.

If you call a "clean line" a dog that runs the rabbit clean around to where I can get a shot at him, that is clean. Anything else is just a track straddler who doesn't have enough brains to run a rabbit to catch. They can be as clean tracking as this program would call for but if they don't bring the rabbit around to a possible shooting position, they are worthless in my pack. Give me a beagle with enough brains to bring the rabbit back to a possible shooting position as fast as possible. I will sell the other kind to Morgan so he can win in his new program.
I hear UKC is thinking about a "walkie talkie" program for the hobby beaglers. They run their tracks clean.

swing · Post by **swing** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:59 pm

Your not worth us even wasting our time on, you have 2 beagles left after a 30 yr breeding program, so that pretty much sums your beagling up right there.
Redtick , you forgot to post in your last post about registering the very first litter in PKC, by the way, what has registring that litter done for you and do you have any of those dogs left that you registered?

Another thing Redtick, have you ever ran over your beagles to actually watch what they are doing or does the way it sounds in the road due good enough for you.

Jesse Duncan · Post by **Jesse Duncan** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:00 am

I was reading in an earlier topic where Redtick was saying that he produced many champion beagles. He said that the proof was in the pudding, just go to his website and all the beagles with lakeland in front of the name was the ones he made champion. SOO.....I went to the web page and there was only one lakeland named beagle!!

WAY TO GO REDTICK!!!!!! Thats pretty good after 30 years of beagleing!

Jesse Duncan

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:21 am

You folks are reading stuff that is not there. I have never said I have bred a bunch of Champion beagles, I did say a buddy and I have bred beagles for 30 years but just for our personal hunting dogs, not for anyone else, and I have been following beagles for over 40 years but I have been competition beagling for about 5 years. I have competition coon hunted for over 30 years. I think some of you guys post lies hoping folks will believe them. They are lies.

As for standing in the road judging dogs, I have done that for 30 years. And, in the dark on top of it. UKC's bread and butter is made from guys standing in the road at night judging hounds. A knowledgable houndman can easily tell what a hound is doing standing in the road at night. There are guys that make a living off of being able to tell what a hound is doing while standing in the road at the middle of the night. UKC doesn't make much money off of beagles and will make even less from guys chasing their beagles around trying to judge them.

When I was a boy around 13, my grandfather told me to stay close to where the beagles jumped the rabbit and wait quietly. The beagle will bring the rabbit back. It still works today. Of course I hunt good beagles that consistantly bring the rabbit back and I judge them by their ability to be able to bring the rabbit back. You can have all of the "clean line' in the world but if they don't bring the rabbit back, they are culls. Always have been, always will be. You guys need some brace beagles. That way the cast can stay up with them.

swing · Post by **swing** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:32 am

As for standing in the road judging dogs, I have done that for 30 years. And, in the dark on top of it.

Thats why you are down to 2 dogs after 30 yrs of breeding beagles. LOL

You folks are reading stuff that is not there. I have never said I have bred a bunch of Champion beagles.

No , I know you havent all the champion beagles you have got you bought them from someone else, and you dont even know if they got their degree's legit or by pushing the pencil.

I did say a buddy and I have bred beagles for 30 years but just for our personal hunting dogs, not for anyone else, and I have been following beagles for over 40 years .

So for the first 10 years did you follow around imaginary beagles or what?

UKC's bread and butter is made from guys standing in the road at night judging hounds. A knowledgable houndman can easily tell what a hound is doing standing in the road at night.

Well Redtick , I havent coon hunted in a UKC event for several years but, last I recall they dont score speed and drives at night nor do they score checks or backtracking or swinging, so as far as them standing in the road all that get scored is strike points and tree points, so there is a little difference there.
With beagles you can score a strike from the road but as far as checks standing in the road is pretty much useless and scoring a speed and drive you might get lucky and he might cross then again he might not, and if you got a mouthy dog as far as you know the rabbit is never lossed.
Stand in the road if you want, I think I want to know what is going on, so I am going to get in there.

UKC doesn't make much money off of beagles and will make even less from guys chasing their beagles around trying to judge them.

Well Todd there you have it, you better throw the last idea out the window, The God of beagling said this new format wont ever work, and if he said it , its the gospel

When I was a boy around 13, my grandfather told me to stay close to where the beagles jumped the rabbit and wait quietly. The beagle will bring the rabbit back. It still works today. Of course I hunt good beagles that consistantly bring the rabbit back and I judge them by their ability to be able to bring the rabbit back.
Wouldnt you like to get in there and see whats going on, havent you had days where tracking was bad and you wanted to see who was actually getting all the hard work done or did you have a dog that seemed to be popping here and there wondering if he was doing the work or if it was the dog when it opened we seemed to be going somewhere then, if you are satisfied with what you hear from the road I wouldnt put much stock in your breeding program, I think if I was you I would get someone to come and run over my dogs and see what I really had, thats just me tho, I wouldnt be satisfied standing in the road myself, thats just me tho.

Of course I hunt good beagles that consistantly bring the rabbit back and I judge them by their ability to be able to bring the rabbit back.

Well if that is all you interested in I bet I can turn you onto some more champions to buy, Id rather get out there and pick out the ones that are doing the job as efficent as they can without an extra bark here and there, but you standing in the road wouldnt know anything about an extra bark here and there, all you know is Cricket is the first one out in the road everytime whether she ran the rabbit right or not dont matter as long as she makes it to the road first.