Ive heard three people on here say AKC are the real FC dogs.

[T LEE]

I would like to try AKC SPO Midwest trials. They are just too far away from me . The AKC SPO trials in my area are Very conservative. I have been twice to SPO trials in NC . You won't see many Branko , Patch , Northway , T-Rex or any of the faster style running dogs place much down here. Most will be Robs Diamond , Shorts Pro and Tiny Bull bred dogs doing the placing. The SPO trials I attended were ran in a fenced enclosure. We cast our group and it wasn't long before the the race was on. I looked over a small field and saw the rabbit cross. I was thinking that the dogs were on a split but it was the same rabbit and a gap of 60 yards between the front dog and the pack. My female was pulling away and I was feeling good. She ran 3/4 of a circle without a breakdown. Her first check was 5 sec. and she recovered it before the pack even got there. I then hear "Pick her Up , Pick her up ". The red faced judge then told me she was running "To much Rabbit" . I put my dog in the truck and staying to watched the cast run. I then saw the speed that my dog should be running to place. The two judged walked and wrote on the score card at the same time as the pack ran .Sometimes they got in a fast walk when the pack was Really pushing hard. I would welcome a Midwest type trial in my area. What we have now just isn't the style most guys from this board run.

[Bryan]

Weaver, Where is New Castle at from Pittsburg?

[Smoke'n Mack]

Shoot up 79 about ~35 miles north of Pittsburgh til you hit 422. Head west towards Ohio, you'll run right into it.

[lab]

I have had dogs in UKC ARHA and AKC and I believe AKC is the hardest format to win in. In AKC you better have a dog with speed and great line control. You will not get away with a swinging dog as you do in ARHA. When you run your final cast in AKC your dog may run 2 to 4 hrs before a winner is found. IN AKC your dog better have alot of drive and have no quit in him. As some of these guys have said these dogs are just as fast as any other format but the cast may run longer and especially the winners pack will be out there much longer then any other format. I also like the idea at AKC trials you do not see many clubs using there own judges. You have many judges from different states. The main thing is no matter what club you are in where there to meet people and have fun.

[John-PA]

It's all in where you go to AKC trials. There are a lot of clubs around my house here in SW PA, but I travel to NY, Eastern PA and Vermont for my trialing. It all depends on where you go, different federations run different styles of dogs in the AKC.

[ClearForkBeagles]

I run NKC Little Pack, never run UKC or AKC. I feel that a person should just run what ever style makes them happy. Don't keep running in a division that makes you mad or stressed, try something different. I also feel that where a person lives has alot to do with what and where they run. Most people are not going to keep traveling eight to ten hours just to run a certain style dog, when they have other styles of dogs running within one or two hours of their home. I don't have any problem with how a registry runs their hunts, a good dog is a good dog, and you like what you like! My only problem is with the AKC, and it is with the registry itself! In my dealings with the akc I always have ended up feeling like all that they cared about was the money! They care nothing for the animals, but only for those registration fees! The akc is a just a big money racket, nothing else. I absolutely am not talking about the houndsmen of the akc, only the people in the administration of the akc. People do act like those papers that say akc on them make their dog better, well i don't know about you but my dogs can't read, papers don't do anything for the way the dog hunts and runs a rabbit!

[lab]

8:20 am

I run NKC Little Pack, never run UKC or AKC. I feel that a person should just run what ever style makes them happy. Don't keep running in a division that makes you mad or stressed, try something different. I also feel that where a person lives has alot to do with what and where they run. Most people are not going to keep traveling eight to ten hours just to run a certain style dog, when they have other styles of dogs running within one or two hours of their home. I don't have any problem with how a registry runs their hunts, a good dog is a good dog, and you like what you like! My only problem is with the AKC, and it is with the registry itself! In my dealings with the akc I always have ended up feeling like all that they cared about was the money! They care nothing for the animals, but only for those registration fees! The akc is a just a big money racket, nothing else. I absolutely am not talking about the houndsmen of the akc, only the people in the administration of the akc. People do act like those papers that say akc on them make their dog better, well i don't know about you but my dogs can't read, papers don't do anything for the way the dog hunts and runs a rabbit!Cliff Everts

Clearfork you are right about papers do not make the dog run any better but in AKC most people know what there dogs are out of. It use to be some dishonest peoples through papers on a dog that did not belong on that dog but AKC now has it after I believe 4 breedings a male must be DNA. So people have had to cut down on doing that so most of your beagles today are coming out of whatever your papers says it is out of. With most of the other registry's alot of the dogs you do not know what they are out of. Alot of them are single registered. Those dogs can become Champions. I know I had a female dog that had about a 1/4 rat terrier in it with beagle and I sold it to a guy telling him it had some rat terrier in her even though she looked all beagle and he champion her out in one of the other registry and then selling her for close to 1000.00 dollars without the new owner ever knowing about her not being all beagle. In AKC I do not think you will see many beagles like that. Alot of the guys in AKC DNA the females that most of us use for breeding. This is the nice part about AKC. I am sure there are a few dishonest people still putting papers on dogs that aren't what they are suppose to be but you will always have a few that will not be honest to make a dollar. Yes AKC sure makes there money but I know talking to them they will tell you about all there overhead. I use to have nothing but non-registered dog but went to AKC dogs around 10 years ago because when it came to selling pups you can get so much more then a non-registered dog. I do not have that many pups each year but the ones I do have you can get as much as two to three times out of them then non-registered pups and since you are raising a litter you should get as much as you can.

[ClearForkBeagles]

I agree with you lab, It just really bothered me one time I raised an akc litter, it was thirty seven dollars to register the litter and then I wanted to keep a pup so then I had to pay another fifteen buck for adult papers on it! $52 to register one dog that I created, well basically I mean I owned the male and female, that is just too much. I have no idea what it costs now. Then the last straw, i sent in a litter registration and they told me that my date of birth on the litter was wrong, i called and asked what they meant, I thought maybe I entered the incorrect year or something stupid like that, they read the date back to me and that was not the case, the date was correct! I then proceeded to ask why they thought that, I mean come on, how in the hell would anyone know in that organization what day those pups were born unless they were standing there with me all night while I sat up with the mother helping her and just making sure she would be alright. Well they weren't with me and I put down the exact date they were born, I still don't know why or what they were trying to do, but by the time I was done with them I had three people crying on the phone. I have never tried to register one again with the akc, as a matter of fact I almost aviod akc dogs, If I like the dog, it doesn't matter what it is, if I am having a hard time making a decision on buying one or not, if it is akc that is my determining factor I just won't buy it. However this was a bit of an eye opener for me. Looking at pedigrees and seeing FC in front of alot of dogs names I ofcourse knew that this meant Field Champion, but I did not realize that the titles were not different according to the style of the hound, Midwest, brace, etc. If it says FC they are a field champ, but you have to research to find out what style of hunts that it is a FC in.

[billy]

Also, some casts that go out on the midwest or large pack will go for a few hours when UKC PP will go on for one hour. Plus you get to see who the judges are in advance before the trial begins...

I have seen packs in the midwest go out for less than 20 min. while other packs at the same hunt will go out for 2 hrs. That does not give every dog the same shot at winning. dont know about ukc at all, but the nkc is the most fair I have seen yet. arha pp is the format I like the best.

[Casey Harner]

Also, some casts that go out on the midwest or large pack will go for a few hours when UKC PP will go on for one hour. Plus you get to see who the judges are in advance before the trial begins...

I have seen packs in the midwest go out for less than 20 min. while other packs at the same hunt will go out for 2 hrs. That does not give every dog the same shot at winning. dont know about ukc at all, but the nkc is the most fair I have seen yet. arha pp is the format I like the best.

I agree Billy, they can go out for 20 minutes, but if a pack in 20 minutes is either losing the rabbit and not running it at all, then why should the judge allow them to run more. I also don't like knowing when you go to a ARHA hunt or a UKC hunt, people's beggin others to judge. They should have that lined out. That just really gives a good reason for trial and error, never know whose gonna buddy judge at that level. I'm sure a lot of it don't happen, but I do perfer Midwest. But I do agree I like the ARHA PP just as much!!

[toldyouso]

Hear we go hopefully arron bramlett does not shut this down for the last time this conversation came up he who tells the truth is the bad guy lol. Look as long as u run a hound who really cares what organization they run. I have run Mid west Little Pack ukc and now going to try pkc because it makes since to me with gas prices and the bottom dollar might has well try to win money. I still say this meet up with guys u do not know run your dogs on a day u have nothing to do and if u know anything about hounds u will see. And again maybe u will not. But i have seen bad and good in all of them i am very opinionitive and mid west just did not work for me. Same judges same views and i refused to change my style of dog that i like to run. I do not believe there is any rule book that states the mesurerments of a check area. I know when there is a loss a dog should be rewarded for a recovery i do not care where the rabbit is recovered and there is no judge that is quick enough to stay on the rabbit. Yes the rabbit because u as a judge would have to know where the rabbit turned. We has houndsmen put the trust in our hounds to tell us that. Right or wrong. I am just saying. The one thing in all are rule books is check area NO SUCH RULE if so give me numbers. Recovery of a rabbit is totally different then check area no such thing again. I keep bringing this up because i believe this is the biggest agruement u will get between a little pack man and a mid west man.

[J.C. Blair]

This horse has been beat to death.........I bet there are 30 threads with the same rhetoric.......no offense meant at all.......just run your dogs and have fun, thats what its all about at the end of the day..........

[J.R Dunlap]

I have ran in all those formats and like all of them but over the last ten years i stayed in UKC i like the dog style better.
How ever this year i will run some AKC spo and some PKC .
I started trailing in the ARHA little pack and like it very well at the time i started there were more little pack clubs in my area now
UKC has taken over. I have fun in almost every hunt i goto but some times its the people that screw it up for every body not the format.
Now i see the UKC going with more of a little pack style dog i myself like a track dog so i went to my first PKC trail i like i think but will have to goto a few more to really get the fill of it.
I don't think any format is better than the other you just have to find what you like.
Our club is now going to hold some PKC hunt due to the fact we can't get dates from UKC.
But i don't think any one's Champion is better than others if i breed to a dog it don't matter to me whats in front of the dog's name its what he does on a rabbit that matters.

Just my Thoughts

J.R Dunlap

[JUDE]

I have never ran or watched a AKC field trial however I have ran and seen the NKC trials and I have much
more respect for a FC over any of the other titles . However I also can tell from a far off that the AKC
requires lots of cash that most don't have . Trying not to upset anyone so I'll also say that there are many
people out there that own hounds of FC material if they had the time and money . Just my one cent worth
because my opinion probably aint worth .02 .

If my post has upset anyone please be man enough to call me 1-606-395-9898 and we'll discuss it .

[wildcatfan0309]

i used to be one of those guys that hated the thought of a akc trial and loved to bash'em
but ill have to admit i shouldnt have judged on my thoughts and what the some of the lil pack gods had to say about the akc trials
i have only been to two akc trials and it was just recently and im allready hooked on them
there is no luck in akc like there is in nkc arha lil pack
In akc
if you got a good hound you will do good
if you got a average or weak dog you will never see a akc winners pack

in nkc arha lil pack
weither you got a great dog or a junk dog
you still have a good chance of doing some good that day
and time after time because of luck and the way the format is layed out ive seen the junk dog beat the great dog
in akc the great dog gets the chance it desearves to show what it can do with out the junk dog being in the way because the junk dog wont last no time and the judges will remove him from the pack

ive trialed a ton in arha lil pack and
ive trialed some in ukc
and ive owned champions in both formats that wasnt worth the food they ate
but i really think it takes a real world class top notch hound to make a akc feild champion
i know im no akc expert since ive only been to two trials
but just go and try one it wont take ya long to realize that akc is the format that in it takes a true world class rabbit dog to excel in
i like lil pack and ill run it every chance i get as well as run akc too
but in my worthless lil opinion i dont know if akc fc dogs are "the real fc dogs" or not i guess thats a matter of opinion
but i know from which format id like to have a dog championed out and sittin in my kennel in .......AKC HANDS DOWN!!!