The American Beagler Forum

Talking to Jim Mcquire and Tony Kildow and we r trying to figure out how PKC can be more finicially suited for the clubs. This is the dicussion in a nut shell. What if we created another division that only scored lines. Then u could enter more then one dog and clubs would end up with 40 dog hunts and it would be more money friendly to where clubs could afford to hold hunts. You would have to hold a traditional strike line hunt at least twice a year and the rest could be just line hunts but you would have to qualify in both division to be eligible for world hunt. The world hunt would consant of qualifing arounds being of the line division rules and the finales being of the traditional rules. What does everyone think of this more dogs more money. This is just in the dicussion stage right now need everyones input would be appreciated.

Ok bear with me.. We have been running trials but so far have only been to 1 PKC hunt..So your saying you could hunt multiple dogs, you could send your second and third dog out with someone else on the cast they draw correct? Ok so who would score the lines a non hunting judge?

I would get a little concerned about changing the rules so that people could bring more dogs especially if it means a non-hunting judge then has control of the cast. Part of the difficulty in other formats is getting enough judges. In particular, enough good judges. There are a few things that I think is making PKC more appealing to people. One is that the dog owners have a vote on decisions in the field, another is the format promotes the "total" dog by requiring a dog to hunt, and obviously the fact that you might get some gas money back instead of just a trophy or ribbon. As long as the "changes" do not effect those things, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I for the most part agree with Paul but I don't think it would be a good thing to bring more than one dog. it never fails you are standing there someone comes up and says can you handle my dog handles like a baby and then you spend all your time trying to catch the dang thing thats one reason I have been to a Little Pack trial in almost 2yrs it takes all the fun out of the trial. JMO

A trial that only scores lines sounds more like a horse race to me. In my opinion if your not promoting a hunting dog your wasting your time. If you want a horse race then maybe you need to get into greyhounds. Im not familiar with how much of a cut PKC gets of the entry fees now-a-days but back when they started out in beagles and our club held some events I felt they were getting way to big of a cut. I know they have to make money but with the annual fee they were charging the club for a charter($125 i think it was) plus thier cut out of the entry fees ($3 per dog i think it was) plus thier yearly membership fee for each person who entered a dog($20-$25) plus thier registration fee for each dog registered(I think it was $20) plus they also kept a percentage of the entry fees for escrow that was supposedly used for the world hunt I thought all in all was a little much and I think thier slow growth is the result.

I really like PKC the way it is.Running more than one dog would be a more profitable scenario and that would be nice, but we are promoting a total rabbit dog that hunts hard,jumps rabbits and runs a track as fast as scenting conditions will allow.Now if you just score lines with a non hunting judge I think you will have some dishonesty going on.I'd like to be able to run more than one dog but I don't think just scoring lines is the answer.Having to strike your dog in and majority of the cast being there to score dogs crossing the line keeps an honest man honest.We have been to the last two PKC hunts in Piketon and have had the most fun at trials that we have ever had.I first want to enjoy myself,and second see the absolute best dog win, being it mine or yours.If you keep it like it is now but only score lines with majority of the cast rules that would probably be ok.The only problem then is what Joe said it takes the fun out of it if someone else handles another persons dog and you have to chase that dog or whatever,been there done that, no fun,and to have multiple dogs of your own in one cast doesn't make sense running against yourself.I don't know I might be seeing this all wrong but I don't think it's the right way to go.Thanks,Pete

Gentlemen,

Make no mistake about it, PKC Hound and Hunter is here to stay the way it is. We are looking at some different options that our members might enjoy that would benefit our clubs. We will always be committed to our Hound and Hunter Format.

Thanks, Tony

The key here is we r looking at different things like Tony said I to as well as everyone else what to promote the total hound. I know of none that do this but to each his own. But in order for PKC to grow we have to come up with a way that a club can stand on its own as a PKC club. If you take arha for instance and changed there rule where you yourself had to handle your own dog everytime out u could not stand on your own as a arha club. AKC the same way your able to bring more then one dog and as a business as what PKC is you need to find ways to grow and be more profitable. For instance i have 1 dog registered PKC why i can only handle one dog in arha every dog i own is arha registered has well has AKC why because i can take more then one dog and compete. Maybe PKC could start holding cast and rolling dogs just do not think there is enough time in a day. Imagine if your world hunt went from 60 dogs to 755 like arha the prize money that would be available. Instead of 5000.00 you would be around 20000.00. And arron it is only 50.00 to hold a pkc charter. Another point that was made is if you do not handle your own dogs then u would have cheating going on. In a perfect world u will always have someone trying to angle rules to fit them its how you police those people. I just think if there was a another division let the people of PKC decide wheather or not they what to run a line division or hand there dog off to someone else to line there dogs and with numbers painted on the dogs or different colored collars like AKC and arha provide it would not be that hard to do. I say we explore the possiblities and realize that sometimes things could be changed for the better instead of always being so negative. I posted this because i feel if we all put r heads together we could make PKC clubs pop up like wild flowers and the pay outs could end up bigger then one man could grasp.

I don't think anyone was being negative. The post asked for opinions and everyone has one. Just don't want to see anything damage what is currently happening in PKC. I think clubs are popping up it many places. Obviously changes can be made that won't have a negative impact. JMO

Did not mean it in a bad way and yes clubs r popping up but how long can they last bills must be payed. Most clubs have to pay rent. and i love all the suggestions this is how a organization should be run with ideas good or bad and let the people decide. I just do not want to run two different clubs just to promote one they need to stand allow. I have two businesses and i do not take money from one to run the other. That is just suicide. I apoligize if i came off wrong i just want this organization to blossum like i know it can.

Frank stay out of the Poppy Seeds.

Everyones a comedian.

I thank you have a great idea just needs tweeking. Know matter what format you cannot please everyone. I am going to try PKC.

However I am a guy that always carry's more than one dog. The bad is you cannot send a dog that has to be called on a strike when a person has never seen the dog. I like the idea of having a voice. No one is trying to get away from a hunting dog or trying to change the judge format. Do not read to much into things. Come on keep a open mind. From what I read they are just trying to get it where you can bring more than one dog. Kind of hard to drive four hours one way to only have one shot at the winners circle. I like what you are trying to do. But hey that is JMO.

Keep in mind, most of the time, clubs are having double hunts. I generally run two different dogs at these. Some guys pound the ground with the same dog. Clubs are allowed to have triple events with the last hunt being a mandatory split. If clubs wanted to do this, you could run three different dogs in a day.

Thanks, Tony

I would like to see the PKC take on the akc Large pack format , expand to hare country. Using a payout system like the Coon hunts . $25.00 hunts get 25 entries in each class.. you could really bring in some $$ .