Is finishing a dog to akc fc still a big acomplishment

[wildcatfan0309]

i always heard how hard it was to finish a dog in akc spo midwest,
heard it was so hard that for years i wouldnt even attempt to run in the format.
Finally decided that i had the caliber of dogs and the right style dog to run akc
because always heard that it takes a fast good tracking rabbit dog that runs clean ,can turn a rabbit out of the pack on a dime and swinging and skirting was absolutly not tolerated.
I always ran a lil rougher dog than i thought akc would like not by choice just never could gettem clean enuff.
well me and my uncle aquired a couple dogs that we liked and was tough as nails and was the good clean style that we always heard akc wanted.
My uncle went to his first trial which was the hoy runoff where he placed his dog 4th
and thats about all the luck weve had besides making the winners pack some of the times
we are in no way akc veterans but we know a dog and we know the rules for the most part
now getting to my point..
first off dont get me wrong i know several dogs with wins and that have finished that i would own right now if they were forsale and have seen a few judges that i really like and judge a dog the way i always thought it was done in akc
we have run against alot of dogs that would embarass a lil pack dog it swings so hard and gets so ruff in the pack while we have been running akc
and these wild and crazy dogs are placing winning and finishing not any certain dogs just akc dogs as a whole
but the worst thing is in order for these dogs to win they have to be judged all day and what lil bit i see of the race i see a lot of stuff that dogs should be picked up for.
one especially is when a dogs swinging and leaving track uncovered and the true rabbit dogs are behind trying to run the un covered track they are not getting any score because the judges are scoring the swinging dogs and you ask a judge why your dog got picked up and he tells ya for low score its not set up that way thats why theres no short cut from one side to the other in a nascar track because ya got to fall in line and do it right if ya want to win ya cant just go from last to first by cuting through the pits and and driving through all the campers in the middle to get to the other side before the other drivers get there
alot of these judges that judge and put wins on the ruff dogs also like and run ruff dogs
has akc always been this way
i hope not because i know a bunch of bloodlines and beaglers that ive aways kinda looked up to as kind of the big dogs
because they have back grounds of akc fc's and have been akc fc's there selves and have produced akc fc's
i thought it was really a great prestigess lifetime accomplishment to finish a dog akc
and i bred for what i thought akc was about because if a dog was a akc fc i figure it was clean and a true line controlled rabbit dog never dreamed that i was actually breeding to a over running cutting and skirting out of the pack to get the front leaving track uncovered wild crazy maniac
guess what im wondering is, has it always been this style dog that wins akc or has it just started recently
and if it has just started recently is it as big of a deal to make akc fc as it was when the old dogs from yrs ago made fc
thanks for reading hopefully i can get some answers i know theres some old timers on here that know alot more about the then and now of akc than i do
thank you
josh mcdavid
(606) 225 1308

[mybeagles]

has akc always been this way

Josh,

I think that's a very legitamate question. I have attended or judged a couple trials a year for about 12 years now. I have definately noticed the hounds getting much rougher...... Right now in the Mid-west you have judges that require a pretty clean running hound and you have some that could care less how rough a dog gets they will be scoring them. I'm expecting this issue to surface more frequently, but I expect the rougher style hounds are going to "win out". There are considerably more Little Pack dogs and judges involved in the Mid-west and that is having a big influence.

I'm expecting the guys running more conservative hounds to withdrawl from the Mid-west and more and more Little pack guys to start competing.

As a judge you have to judge the dogs they present to you for the day. If 80% of the class are hard hitting rougher style dogs its unlikely your going to end up with a winners pack picked from the remaining 20%.

It's an interesting development that I will be watching the next couple years.

Mybeagles

[Casey Harner]

If I was capable of judging I would view the situation like this, I would try to see if I could kill a rabbit over the dogs that I have presented in front of me. If they keep losing the rabbit or creating loss after loss, then they would be picked up by me.

[TC]

has akc always been this way

have definately noticed the hounds getting much rougher...... Right now in the Mid-west you have judges that require a pretty clean running hound and you have some that could care less how rough a dog gets they will be scoring them. I'm expecting this issue to surface more frequently, but I expect the rougher style hounds are going to "win out". There are considerably more Little Pack dogs and judges involved in the Mid-west and that is having a big influence.

I'm expecting the guys running more conservative hounds to withdrawl from the Mid-west and more and more Little pack guys to start competing.



Mybeagles

pretty much Says it all right there!

[LaMarr Rhoades]

15 inch males in the mid west are 100 percent no different than little pack dogs,its way more accomplishment over style now.i think turbo had a huge influence on this.seems to me around his era is when the change started to happen.im sure some people love the change and im sure some hate the change,but its the way it is and its not gonna change,akc bloodlines are going to have to adjust or they will fade away in midwest in my oppinion

[eddywilliams]

Who are the judges in MID WEST that likes to judge a clean hound in 15 in ?

[Chris Shoopman]

If they Run TO Catch! they haft to get a lil wild... thats the way i like them

[JUDE]

[sharon]

Josh,

My suggestion is to look at the judges and find out what format they run their dogs in. I would guess that some, who like the rough dogs, are also competing in Little Pack. They are probably looking to champion their dogs out in more than one format and therefore are allowing the rougher dog to permeate the AKC format. I guess AKC will have to decide if that is the direction they want their format to go in. Their decision will determine whether an AKC FC is still a big accomplishment or not!

[mybeagles]

Who are the judges in MID WEST that likes to judge a clean hound in 15 in ?

Eddie,

You have been running in the Mid-west to long not to know. It's not realistic to create a comprehensive list and all the associated feathers that would be ruffled.

A clean running dog thats not all over the place causing disrupted running is what the AKC SPO rule book is designed to promote. Just because a dog is slower doesn't always mean they are rule book hounds either.

Associations can migrate in whatever direction the populace wants......thats going to happen over time. The only part I don't like is showing up and not knowing what to expect. There should be less variance in what is considered a fault versus accomplishment.

If I was capable of judging I would view the situation like this, I would try to see if I could kill a rabbit over the dogs that I have presented in front of me.

Casey,

It's not about "deciding how you want to view the situation". Its about what the rule book says. Judges selecting dogs based on how they want to view the situation is what causes all the variance. The AKC SPO rule book is very well written and if followed will result in the deserving hounds with the ribbons. Judging shoud be objective based on the rule book, not subjective as to what style hound you think is best or what you think is a fault or not a fault.

Mybeagles

[wildcatfan0309]

im not blaming any dogs or bloodlines
we have a nice dog out of bandit thats clean as can be and i know theres some ruff ones out of bandit right now
and we have two dogs out of the turbo line thats really clean two
the dogs problem i think thats being run is the way they are trained not bred
and "my beagles" u are right ya never know what the style is thats gonna be favored
the day of the trial
we got ruffer running dogs and clean dogs
which ones should we take to the trials?????
ya never know till your there but 90% of the time these ruff dogs are the pick of the day

[Topfuel John]

You know i have a male in the 15 inch male class that only needs 30 pts to become FC.Thats a huge accomplishment to me.If he ever gets it done,i hope people just dont look at him as some rough little pack dog,cause hes not! Ive been to my fair share of akc spo hunts(15 inch) and sure their are some rougher ones,(their is going to be) but from what i have seen an the judges iv seen they do a preeety good job of getting out the ones causing disruption or not running the style they try to promote.Me,i like a fast dog! With a fast dog like akc midwest promotes,you will get some rough running,their competitive! i have never personally been to a little pack hunt,so i dont know how a little pack dog runs,so i guess i just go on what i hear. I know the same bloodlines are in both akc midwest and arha(little pack).I think akc wants a little tighter dog,so thats why i run alot solo,teaching them to run the line.So if i ever finish my dog its a big deal to me,cause i put alot of time into it making my dog what hes is,and the most important thing about all of it is just have Fun with it no matter what format u run.

[BCBeagles]

Josh,

My opinion, take all you can handle, I plan on taking no less than 2 hounds and sometimes up to 3 or 4. More fun that way to me. Good luck with your hounds!

[wildcatfan0309]

i dont intend to run akc anymore if the ruff swinging dogs are gonna win
wish the best of luck to the people that do intend to run akc if i ever hear that its cleaning up again ill be back running i and still may hit a couple trials with the right select judges that i seen do it right
i was just wondering if it had always been the way it is now or did it used to be a straight rabbit dog line running format
i got my answer from several on this post and private messages and glad to see that it used to be run right
thank you

[hard on a check]

15 inch males in the mid west are no different than little pack dogs,i think turbo had a huge influence on this.seems to me around his era is when the change started to happen.