Inconsistent measuring ARHA Little pack

[couch potato jim]

I am not very active at little pack hunts. I have been to a few and my dogs usually placed and I enjoyed hanging out and listening to the dogs run.

I called them at the office listed on their website. I explained why I felt the measuring explanaion should be reviewed. I specifically pointed out that the following should be highlighted in the explanation: Locating the top of the withers accompanied by a skeletal diagram. Measurement from top of withers.
Placement of the legs with front legs perpendicular to ground and same width apart from elbow to foot.
It is also important for the hind legs to be back behind the dog far enough for the hock to be
perpendicular to the ground.

The dog should be relaxed but not bulking or cringing. A dog that normally stands with slightly bent pasterns should not be made to stand up on their toes.

This is the way measurement should be done and the way it is expected to be done In every registry that I know of. No fault for taking after any of the registries that measure this way. Same height measuring procedure for all breeds of canines in all registries.

If someone is measuring your dog incorrectly there seems to be some responsability to teach the individual how to measure correctly.

I believe there is value in breeding and competing with dogs that meet the 15" breed height standard. Every knowledgable breeder should know or learn how to correctly measure a dog.

Just want to thank Touchstone, Tdog and others that are having issues with this inconsistent measuring. I thank you for trying to make a difference, Maybe ARHA can be helpful with this issue as well. Like I said My hound has won some big hunts over 50 hounds in a given hunt. I have a lot of time and money invested in her trying to get her to be all she can be in this Little pack format. It would be a devastating to have a hound get eliminated for someones inconsistent measuring. My hound is 14 7/8 inches, she has been in about 150 hunts in UKC, AKC, ARHA and I have NEVER! had a issue with her measuring in at a hunt. Touchstone is very true when stating there is a value in breeding and competing hounds that meet the 15" breed standard. This is why we as beaglers and organizations need to make all measurements consistant "ON EVERY HOUND". Focusing on the correct way to measure a hound is very important to folks that have these 15" hounds. I truly feel WE all should call ARHA with the issues we are facing today with this inconsistent measuring. It is US the beaglers that make this sport and we need to do something about this. So take the time and make a call "it starts with us". If we just complain on here nothing will get done so make that call. The people that have 15" hounds we should be able to compete with out all bull.

[cjones]

Im not sure how UKC measures but akc measures behind the withers. ARHA measures to the top of the withers so it is possible to have a dog measure an inch different between akc and arha, depending on the dog.

[couch potato jim]

Im not sure how UKC measures but akc measures behind the withers. ARHA measures to the top of the withers so it is possible to have a dog measure an inch different between akc and arha, depending on the dog.

Cjones, you are so right about this. AKC in my opinion is measuring correctly and has been for years. Just wondering why everyone has a hard time getting on the same page. Is it to much to expect for breed inspectors to be measuring the same no matter the format? All we can do is hope for the best when we get to the measuring stick. have faith that the person measuring hounds gets it right.

[sanfordssj]

Im not sure how UKC measures but akc measures behind the withers. ARHA measures to the top of the withers so it is possible to have a dog measure an inch different between akc and arha, depending on the dog.

[scott calkins]

thank you i hope your info didnt fall on def ears like mine did. again thanks

[raccoon crk kennel]

its funny how ppl was giving me hell for the same exsact oppinion i have of this post, its way to inconsistant, thats been my gripe the whole time not the rule its self! im quiting so not concerned with it, ill still go to trials and help judge but wont have to worry about a 14in hound measuring out!
funny how ppl flip flop from one post to the next,on the other post i was being told if i dont like it find another format,just dont run big dogs,list goes on and on,now same ones on here agreeing with my exsact point a month ago on the other post!!!!! must have been measure by a wacky inspecter in the past few wk ends....

[fulcount]

Cjones is dead wrong when he states theAKC measures 'behind the withers"
better read the rule book!
AKC measures at the highest point of the withers Maybe down your way you might see them
measure behind the withers That is the wrong way to measure
if you want to get a dog in that is oversize that is how you would measure
it would give the dog as much as an inch
Another thing you have to feel for the withers on each dog they are not all the same
some dogs have higher withers than others some slant to the back so if you drop the bar
the same place without feeling the withers you could be wrong

[cjones]

Cjones is dead wrong when he states theAKC measures 'behind the withers"
better read the rule book!
AKC measures at the highest point of the withers Maybe down your way you might see them
measure behind the withers That is the wrong way to measure
if you want to get a dog in that is oversize that is how you would measure
it would give the dog as much as an inch
Another thing you have to feel for the withers on each dog they are not all the samemy bad
some dogs have higher withers than others some slant to the back so if you drop the bar
the same place without feeling the withers you could be wrong

My bad! I thought I had read that akc mesured just behind the withers. Doesn't matter to me because I have no desire to run akc..

I do know arha measures to the top of the withers.. I have seen dogs measured correctly in arha and I have seen them measured 2 inches behind the withers.. I just spent the 8 bucks and got cards from mine so I don't have to deal with it unless called out at the stake!

[thornie]

Here is a couple sites to look at.
http://www.infovisual.info/02/068_en.html

http://www.lgd.org/library/measure.htm

[SUNRISE10]

The withers is between the shoulder bones feel for them measure there...
The first site that thornie posted above tells where withers are perfectly...

[mtnwaykennel]

I still think everyone is just pointing fingers at the breed inspector. A dog stands the way he/she chooses... every day may not be the same. If everyone (and not saying that they all do) measures the withers... then they are doing as they should. Even if he measures incorrect .. you can ask to have him measured 3 times ... am I right there? I am unsure but I think so. So if the breed inspector measures incorrectly... contact the master of hounds, have him witness the measureing.. and if they both agree and come up with the same (+/- an 8th) then truth is your hound may be to big. Patience with the guys and gals who have to mesure these hounds is important also. MOST of these clubs work thier but off to put on a good hunt. No one likes conflict at a hunt so they are going to do thier best to get it right. If you are an expert on measureing then please step up and help out a breed inspector you may see doing it wrong, but do it in a kind manor. Don't just go bashing these guys and gals that are doing the best they can to put on a good hunt and follow the rules as they know them!

Bill Woods

[Bad Luck Kennels]

I still think everyone is just pointing fingers at the breed inspector. A dog stands the way he/she chooses... every day may not be the same. If everyone (and not saying that they all do) measures the withers... then they are doing as they should. Even if he measures incorrect .. you can ask to have him measured 3 times ... am I right there? I am unsure but I think so. So if the breed inspector measures incorrectly... contact the master of hounds, have him witness the measureing.. and if they both agree and come up with the same (+/- an 8th) then truth is your hound may be to big. Patience with the guys and gals who have to mesure these hounds is important also. MOST of these clubs work thier but off to put on a good hunt. No one likes conflict at a hunt so they are going to do thier best to get it right. If you are an expert on measureing then please step up and help out a breed inspector you may see doing it wrong, but do it in a kind manor. Don't just go bashing these guys and gals that are doing the best they can to put on a good hunt and follow the rules as they know them!

Bill Woods

AMEN BROTHER !!

[SUNRISE10]

I'm a Breed Inspector no one has ever told me how many times I can measure a hound to get size..I like for both owner and myself be sure of dog size...Just don't get ignorant and we will get size rite...Our club has 2 B.I. if we get a dog close or over we both measure then compare what each other got...We don't want to measure anyone out...But if your to big you can't hunt...

[mtnwaykennel]

Right on Sunrise. All I am saying is that most of the clubs try to do right and do the right thing when it comes to measuring, judgeing and everything... so I am sure that more times than not that when measured off the withers then they will measure right. Just remember that we are all humans and we all make mistakes so everyone stay calm and see how it works out. Speculation is already raising gas prices .. do we need it in the beagle world also?

Bill Woods