WHAT DO YOU THINK(POLL)

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I am not sure how the ukc works on scoring. I do know that if a dog jumps a rabbit in any format it should be rewarded. We can talk about different rules and formats every day. I really like akc format, but in all honesty i still wonder how scoring is done at times. I also like arha but 1 hour promotes a pretty huge luck factor. Me personally i just wanna run dogs and talk smack with my buddies. Lots less stress.

[pete young]

David,
Are you saying that the judges in the Mid-West are not doing thier job correctly? It's like this, I have been to a large percentage of the Mid-West trials in the last 3 years. I have seen only a one trial where I thought the judges weren't giving a good honest effort. They almost always do a good job. I have placed, won and even got picked up(lol). I will tell you that every time I placed I thought they had it right except once. I will tell you every time I got picked up I thought they had it right except once. There was one other time that I didn't get called back that I didn't necessarily agree with the decision, but only 1 time have I thought thier was some funny business going on. I have been judged fairly and honestly and will continue to run in the Mid-West. There is no need for another association for the type of dog that you are describing. We already have it. We as members can always state our opinion and hope that changes are made. If you think they should reward a hard hunter more, then send out a letter to the officers in the Mid-West and see if you can get it addressed at the next association meeting. Who knows, there may be a lot of people that agree with you. I will always be behind a hard hunting dog.

[GETRDONE KENNEL]

I want my dog to jump a rabbit not a stick i like a good jump dog
never been to a AKC event though none in my area that i know of i did run in the UKC lastyear and met some nice people and seen some will nice dogs. just my two cents

[SAWBRIAR]

pete not in either one of the post that i've made have i said anything negative about another association or ferderation but it seems kinda funny that the one you speak of is the only one out of the ones out there ( and trust me there is a lot more than you or me either one has heard of) that seems to feel threaten by the mention of another or different association or a federation and it seems like to me that you are really trying to make excuses for the way that judging is being done at some of the trials, i've been around for along time and seen alot of good dogs come and go and i personally feel if you can make a dog akc field champion that there should be no reason what so ever you could not finish him in ukc or arha (big MIKE ABRAMS done it with BADGER in akc + ukc + JEROME MCCAMMON is doing with HAWK - RICK GERMADA ( may have spelled name wrong sorry) done it with SYRIS MCGEE in all 3 formates. my point is if a guy is telling about how good his fc is tell him to bring him to a ukc or a arha hunt and we will see if he's the legend that is being made up or if it's the real thing because when you really get down to it if they are doing it in one they should do it in all the others just like the dogs above are. on another note i personally would not even consider breeding or buying a pup out of a fc stud if i ask the owner to bring him to a hunt in another format or registery and he turn me down ( all things considered age health and other things that mite keep the dog from preforming at a top level) theres no excuse why dog that is fc and is healthy can't compete for other titles in other formats. oh yah if i'm not mistaken akc requires a dog to judged on hunt and jumping its own rabbit during a trial and i think you should be able to find all that info in the rule book it was on the judging test or at least the one i took a few years back.

[pete young]

David,
First of all I was only stating that there is already a format for the kind of dog that you describe. Not threatened in the least by other formats. Why would I care if someone starts another trialing format? I don't have enough time as it is to run the ones that already exist.
Secondly :I don't have to make excuses for any of the judges that I have run under. They have done a pretty good job in my opinion(for what that's worth).
Thirdly: The judges that I have seen have and will pick dogs up for not hunting. Some are more critical than others, but that is life. Everyone is different.
Lastly: Not everyone has the time and means to attend every format out there. I for one have chosen to run in the Mid-West because I like it. I also run ARHA Little Pack when I can and it is always second choice except for the big hunts that I can get to. There are so many trials that it is virtually impossible to make it to them all in any format much less run several formats. It all boils down to what you like and what makes you happy, but you can't honestly criticize a guy because he chooses not to run every format. I don't mean to cause hard feelings over this, but you are making it sound like a person has to take his dog wherever you want and run it in whatever format you want to see him run in before you will consider breeding to him. Is that right? If so, how can you expect that? I know if someone wants to breed to Thunder they are welcome to watch him run at a trial I am attending or come running with me anytime that I am going, but I would never load him up and haul him to a trial that I wasn't planning on going to just to prove he is a rabbit dog. That's just not happening. Good Luck in whichever format you choose to run. If it's a new format, who knows I may show up someday when I'm not running Mid-West.

[SAWBRIAR]

i had Jake and Curt stop by and i showed them the little debate we were all have and they think i 've made a good piont but they also promised they would not laugh at me too much and i would'nt get kick out of the our little club, Mike called and told me too behave,but he says he's still gona laugh at me alot anyway (you know because i care so much about what people think of me that i may not even be able to get to sleep tonight )LOL LOL HA HA!!!!! if never run another trial in another format agan it would not bother me in the least and i don't care to put the dogs i have down anywhere anytime with anybody in any format and the friends that have are the ones ive always had and they always will be so let em laugh i still got dogs to run and places to runnem at and i don't have to cheat steal or lie to do all i want to do. but serously what do ya think about a new federation or association starting up i think we got room for one more don't yall HA HAHA!!!!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

FELLOWS
THIS IS A GOOD DEBATE, BUT THE TYPE OF FORMAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM,AS LONG AS YOU HAVE PEOPLE INVOLVED THERE CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE PERFECT SCORING. I PERSONALLY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT ALL -3-FORMATS MENTIONED.BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OPINIONS JUST PICK WHAT YOU LIKE AND GO FOR IT .IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.FIND ANOTHER ,BECAUSE IT WILL NOT CHANGE TO SUIT YOU.I'M KINDA LIKE JIMBO JUST GO TO B.S. AND VISIT MORE FUN THAT WAY.J.M.O----------.---P.S IF I WAS LOOKING TO BREED TO A STUD DOG THE LAST PLACE I WOULD WATCH HIM RUN IS AT A TRIAL.TO MANY THING'S GOING ON TO FOCUS ON THE ONE HOUND.......

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[BrewerMo]

----------.---P.S IF I WAS LOOKING TO BREED TO A STUD DOG THE LAST PLACE I WOULD WATCH HIM RUN IS AT A TRIAL.TO MANY THING'S GOING ON TO FOCUS ON THE ONE HOUND.......




Good point

[SAWBRIAR]

i agree with you as well Ruffus about picking a stud but the point i'm try to make is that some of these people that finish these dogs in akc or the elite format because that is what they are saying, feel they are too good to run in the other formats with the low landers or commoners and that it would bring some sort of descrace on them and there elite breeding programs or fine hounds they are breeding and trialing, they would'nt be caught dead at ukc or arha trial but they would expect you to buy a dog from them or breed to there stud, in a way i use to kinda feel the same way then i went to the ukc nationals and those guys put on a show it was better the any akc or any other hunt i have ever attended, they work just as hard and put just as much time in there dogs as anyone else dose and trust me they got some good hounds up there and plenty of rabbits to runnem on its a show you guys that have not been need to check it out. but the thing is you get a lot of these guys that get into it 1st and 2nd year they are resiting pedigrees like scriptures out of the bible and getting there judging license # and they start clicking up with the elite doing little favors here there and yonder and the next thing you know fc dogs and they are certified dog experts that can tell you everything you need to know about how to hunt and trial and even on how too be a man if you want to sit and listen long enough. just think the option of somthing else for the same thing would be nice and to actually give you credit or the dog in what ever your into and not have too cling to coat tails to get it done. you know it was AKC that said if you judge in any other formats you would not be aloud to judge there trials because it would compromise your ability to properly evaluate the hounds in theirs ( B/S ) thats just happen because some of the elite want to narrow the field of judges and eliminate any competion for other formats and better the odds to make field champions for theirselves,you end up with the same judges trial after trial or some coat tailer thats going go a long with what ever the judge on the other side says. (BOY I NEED TO CHANGE MY NAME FROM SAWBRIAR TO SPOON CAUSE I JUST STIRED IT UP NOW LOOK OUT!!!) LOLO HA HA HA !!!!

[BlueGrass Boy 1]

HEY SAWBRIER,

LOOKS LIKE TO ME YOU OPENED UP A BIG CAN OF WORMS WITH THIS POLL, BUT IT'S LIKE THIS- WHY SHOULD IT MATTER WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT YOUR IDEAS AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING THAT WILL HELP TO PROMOTE THE BEAGLE. THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING PEOPLE DON'T LIKE ABOUT A CERTAIN FORMAT OR ASSOCIATION. I'VE ALWAYS TRIALED IN THE MID WEST AND THE UKC. I'VE NEVER TRIED THE ARHA, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO. IT'S HARD TO BE A WORKING MAN AND TRY TO MAKE EACH AND EVERY TRIAL IN EVERY FORMAT AROUND. I GUESS IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT FORMAT FITS YOUR HOUND'S RUNNING STYLE THE BEST. MY TOP GOAL IS TO FINISH MY HOUND AS AN AKC FC, BUT IF IT NEVER HAPPENS, I CAN TRULY SAY THAT I'VE HAD A BLAST MAKING NEW FRIENDS AND SEEING SOME AWESOME HOUNDS IN THE FORMATS THAT I RUN MY HOUNDS IN, THE MID-WEST GUNDOG ASSOCIATION AND THE UKC HUNTING BEAGLE PROGRAM.

[Jamie Rice]

It appears one is looking for a scapegoat to lay blame on. Fact of the matter no association whether it's Midwest, UBGF, or any other can accept responsibility for the way judges judge. That responsibility is on the judge him or herself. And honestly it all goes back to the club level. It's pretty simple hire judges that judge the way you think they should and run under the ones that you think judges the way you feel accurate. All the mistakes you mention should be demerited and if severe enough grounds for elimination. If a dog isn't hunting IT MUST BE PICKED UP. There's no if, ands, or buts about that. Hunt is the easiest thing for any judge to look for, however it seems so many people try to make a mountain out of a molehill. SUCH IS EASILY DETERMINED IF THE GALLERY MARSHALL IS DOING HIS OR HER JOB. Once again it's the club and judge's responsibility to instruct the gallery marshall on their duties. However I'm sure you'll find in the SPO rulebook a phrase along the lines of the gallery marshall is to keep handlers together and only to allow them to move when instructed upon by himself/herself. In essense if the marshall instructed the gallery to stand still rather than beating brush you wouldn't see dogs being tallyed on game not jumped by the dogs themselves.

If you feel there's a need for another association by all means proceed with trying to create one. However it may of best interest in trying to succeed in putting on a licensed trial first. Lead by example is what I'm getting at.

Now I don't think anyone of the officers in the Midwest Association nor any of the Midwest clubs feel threaten by any current association let alone the idea of a new one. Personally I say good luck. As for your ideas and improvements any club is more than welcome to bring it forth all ideas during an association meeting. However while your club was a member of the Midwest I don't remember them ever attending an association meeting other than the one where your club was voted acceptance. And to best of my knowledge only thing that Cedar Creek had to say at that meeting was thanks for being allowed to join the MWBGA. You can't expect anyone to hear your concerns unless you voice it when a platform is presented to you. Nevertheless with this post I guess that's your way of saying Cedar Creek won't be rejoining the Midwest? IF SUCH IS TRUE AS THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THE MWBGA I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT YOUR CLUB FEELS THAT WAY. However Cedar Creek is still responsible for fees owed from the all-age trials they held last year. The MWBGA would appreciate if such funds would be mailed to our treasurer at your club's earliest convience.

[danny vansickle]

i agree with pete young,there is nothing wrong with tally ho sticks and puttind dogs on game,we dont have enough time to let them hunt some areas.

i think they should let us carry sticks and bust the brush in arha lp,if i had a dollar for every cast that went 60 minutes with no rabbits or a dog finallytripping over a rabbit and winning while walking beside the gallery.we bring our best rabbit dogs not trained to handle dogs and we are there to run rabbits,sometimes the rabbits are sitting super tight and we only have 60 minutes,get them up and put the dogs on them.get the show on the road and then we would not have dogs in the finals championing out on hunt and handling descisions.i would not let any of my dogs get its win to champion on hunt and handling cause everyone would label it as a dog that championed out that way,thats just my 2 cents.

[SAWBRIAR]

well you hit the nail on the head Jamie with that big long drawed out post at least at the end anyway CEDAR CREEK will not be in the MID WEST GUN DOG ASSOCIATION and if it would have been up to me they never would have jioned in the first place i think if you talked to WAYNE you will find out he feels the same as i do, i know by looking at our records there were 3 payments sent to the MID WEST by CEDAR CREEK i am look at all 3 now, and if i find anything short on our end i will deliver it to you personally hand to hand but if not you want need to worry about it. p/s thanks for the judging seminar i fell asleep trying to read all of it don't know if it took or not but ill save it and keep reading it till it dose who knows i mite make super judge with all that info HA HA AH !!!!!

[coolbrze]

Sounds like Mid West style to me - fast, clean line running hounds.

[SAWBRIAR]

hey where did everybody go sure did get allfull quite in here was it somthing i said??????????????????? hah hah hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!