SIZE,SIZE,SIZE,SIZE.........................

[Pine Mt Beagles]

MR PATCH
THAT IS ABOUT THE BEST EXPLAINATION I HAVE SEEN OR HEARD.--THANKS

AND-KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[MasonsBeagles]

IMHO, the size standard was not set to decide whether a beagle is a beagle or not, it was set as a guide for what a properly made hound with the gifts and desire we hope for, would not over match the intended purpose(to be followed on foot for viewing the sport) or the game pursued(which would ruin the sport/viewing houndwork).
A hound may be 16"s but the rate and pace at which it hunts may be perfectly fine for following on foot and giving good sport.
When hounds are snatching rabbits up in short order, you've over matched the game and ruined the sport of watching good hound work.

One wise old Pack Master said, when you get your pack to where they routinely catch their hare, you should work towards getting that quality within the smallest package possible for best sport and your enjoyment...

That was good.

[danny vansickle]

danny you have been doing a lot better on here but let me ask you question ,what do you think is the bigger problem the size of the dogs or dogs ghost barking and buddy judging it seems that people are letting these mouthie dogs steal hunts; you can always call for a measure on a dog, but very little can be done for these dogs popping off ; good luck this weekend

I NEVER,EVER THOUGHT I WOULD DO THIS,BUT I AGREE WITH YA JIM HORN,I HATE A MOUTHY DOG,AND TOO MANY MOUTHY LYING DOGS ARE WINNING CAUSE EITHER SOME JUDGES ARE AFRAID TO MINUS FOR PULLIN,OR DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN A DOG LYIN OR GETTIN A CHECK.IF THEY EVER STARTED PICKIN DOGS UP FOR EXTRA MOUTH IN LP,WELL,LETS JUST SAY THIS,THERE WOIULD BE A LOT OF MAD HANDLERS.

[DRamey]

Harley, good info, thanks. I was quoting some professors who probably don't know nearly as much about the subject as you, as it sounds like you have personal experience with livestock. Nothing takes the place of hands-on experience, I was trying to offer one possible explanation for why it seems that more and more hounds are going over just in the recent past. It also seems plausible, now more than ever after gaining info from you, that hounds are going over because we keep pushing to get them as close to 15 as possible and are just breeding bigger nowadays. Again, thanks for the education. I can always find room to put more, no matter how old this dog gets! I'm not going to offer my opinion as to the right/wrong of this, though, because all my hounds are under (one Buzz female is just barely, and she is out of a small female) and the fact that I haven't trialed in a couple of years. I do see how that it can get emotional, though, and I urge everyone to keep a cool head and an open mind, and learn what you can by putting yourself in the other guy's shoes.

[joe kaschak]

Not even finished with the 1st page but thought I would mention that 16 in beagles have been accepted as the standard since the 1800's It happens to be the breed standard for the British Kennel Club. If you remember your Beagle history, almost all of our American beagles originated from the English beagles(I believe a lot started from the Satchville-Thorpe hunting packs and the American blue caps were English decent).

[HarleyPA]

It's official, I got one thats oversize.

Oh well.

Ramey, I wasn't trying to suggest that the big dogs are purely a result of genetics. I do think there is something to the food we feed today, but its not harmones. We have a much better understanding of the nutrition that dogs require now days. Generally they don't just eat leftovers from the kitchen table nowdays.

Anyhow, who really knows? For all we now there has always been over fifteen inch beagles. It's just that there was never a method of free and convienent communication like there is now, ie internet.

I remember when I was about ten a fellow gave me a beagle, it was a brace type. That dog went oversize. Why would you need an over fifteen beagle for brace?

BTW, good post Patch.

If Patch is right, then that means Vannastys' pocket rockets are out. Cause they go to fast to enjoy wathing them on foot.

[rock pushin rabbit hunter]

I don't understand why so many people have a problem with starting an over 15 inch class.As long as they put a limit on it,say 17 inches.It would only be a plus to hound owners because it would add value to a dog that is over.If there was a format for them to run under you wouldn't have to sell them for just gundogs.By the way,I bred two 14 inch A.K.C. registered dogs.The bitch raised 9 of them,7 are already over.Neither dog had an oversize dog anywhere in their pedigrees.All NKC is trying to do is give these dogs a format to run under so more hunters can enjoy feild trialing their dogs.Idon't see why this should bother anyone. GIVE THE BIG DOGS THEIR OWN CLASS AND LET EM RUN!!!!!!!!

[TC]

if you Will look at the english Standard (british)(FCI) it says.


SIZE Desirable minimum height at withers 33cm (13 ins). Desirable
maximum height at withers 40cm (16 ins).

*** Please note, in the USA, there are two recognized sizes.
13 inches (Not exceeding 13 inches at the withers.)
15 inches (Not exceeding 15 inches at the withers.)

So If you were to go by the English or FCI standard any Dog measuring UNDER 13" would also need to be Disqualified!!!!!!!

[rock pushin rabbit hunter]

Anyone that thinks only purebred Beagles are being run in these hunts is only fooling themselves.The R.H. in ARHA stands for rabbit hound,not beagle.Iwould say alot of champion and grand champion dogs have a little somethin else in their bloodline besides beagle.

[Ronnyg]

if you Will look at the english Standard (british)(FCI) it says.


SIZE Desirable minimum height at withers 33cm (13 ins). Desirable
maximum height at withers 40cm (16 ins).

*** Please note, in the USA, there are two recognized sizes.
13 inches (Not exceeding 13 inches at the withers.)
15 inches (Not exceeding 15 inches at the withers.)

So If you were to go by the English or FCI standard any Dog measuring UNDER 13" would also need to be Disqualified!!!!!!!

Why would 13" need to be DQ'd? It states "Not Exceeding" Doesn't mention a minimum does it? Then I don't understand why some people who want an oversize class say put a limit of 16" or 17"........if you are in favor of an oversize class don't put any limit on it, but don't be surprised when you find people who start showing up with coonhounds LOL.

[TC]

if you Will look at the english Standard (british)(FCI) it says.


SIZE Desirable minimum height at withers 33cm (13 ins). Desirable maximum height at withers 40cm (16 ins).

*** Please note, in the USA, there are two recognized sizes.
13 inches (Not exceeding 13 inches at the withers.)
15 inches (Not exceeding 15 inches at the withers.)

So If you were to go by the English or FCI standard any Dog measuring UNDER 13" would also need to be Disqualified!!!!!!!

Why would 13" need to be DQ'd? It states "Not Exceeding" Doesn't mention a minimum does it? Then I don't understand why some people who want an oversize class say put a limit of 16" or 17"........if you are in favor of an oversize class don't put any limit on it, but don't be surprised when you find people who start showing up with coonhounds LOL.

Doesn't mention a minimum does it?
YES It Does
I Didnt Say disqualify 13" just anything under!!!!
if everybody wants to go to the English or International Standard of 16" then the whole standard would need to be Followed SOOOOOO
Anything UNDER 13 or Over 16" would be disqualified!!!
thats what I am saying you aint gonna make anybody happy
So Why Dont we just go BY the STANDARD as it was adopted for the US...

Now as far as crossbreeds being Run in ARHA
PROVE IT!!!!!!!
And if you know for a FACT that this is the Case Say Something!!!!
BUT HAVE PROOF!!!!!!!!

[Brush_Buster]

If a dog is 24 inches tall and has pruf that its a beagle let it run. If it 9 incshes tall and has pruf let it run. Let the best dog win. I see 16in. dogs run the crap out of rabbits every day. But they arent allowed to hunt in a trial. I think they may be faster , but they have a problem geting there nose to the ground they are so big. so let the best dog win.

[Ronnyg]

if you Will look at the english Standard (british)(FCI) it says.


SIZE Desirable minimum height at withers 33cm (13 ins). Desirable maximum height at withers 40cm (16 ins).

*** Please note, in the USA, there are two recognized sizes.
13 inches (Not exceeding 13 inches at the withers.)
15 inches (Not exceeding 15 inches at the withers.)

So If you were to go by the English or FCI standard any Dog measuring UNDER 13" would also need to be Disqualified!!!!!!!

Why would 13" need to be DQ'd? It states "Not Exceeding" Doesn't mention a minimum does it? Then I don't understand why some people who want an oversize class say put a limit of 16" or 17"........if you are in favor of an oversize class don't put any limit on it, but don't be surprised when you find people who start showing up with coonhounds LOL.

Doesn't mention a minimum does it?
YES It Does
I Didnt Say disqualify 13" just anything under!!!!
if everybody wants to go to the English or International Standard of 16" then the whole standard would need to be Followed SOOOOOO
Anything UNDER 13 or Over 16" would be disqualified!!!
thats what I am saying you aint gonna make anybody happy
So Why Dont we just go BY the STANDARD as it was adopted for the US...

Now as far as crossbreeds being Run in ARHA
PROVE IT!!!!!!!
And if you know for a FACT that this is the Case Say Something!!!!
BUT HAVE PROOF!!!!!!!!

Sorry TC I meant under 13"............I agree 100% we should stay with US standards........last I checked that's where we are.

[danny vansickle]

If a dog is 24 inches tall and has pruf that its a beagle let it run. If it 9 incshes tall and has pruf let it run. Let the best dog win. I see 16in. dogs run the crap out of rabbits every day. But they arent allowed to hunt in a trial. I think they may be faster , but they have a problem geting there nose to the ground they are so big. so let the best dog win.

i second the motion

[Pine Mt Beagles]

WELL I WAS THINKING (YES I KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS) BUT ANY WAY SINCE THE- NKC-ARHA- WAS STARTED WITH NO CLASSES FOR 13 IN MALES OR 13 IN FEMALES 15 IN FEMALES AND 15 IN MALES THEY ALL RUN TOGETHER AND WAS STARTED SO PEOPLE WITH GRADE DOGS WOULD HAVE A PLACE TO RUN THEIR HOUNDS IN COMPETION BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT REGISTERED AND DID NOT HAVE A STANDARD. I REMEMBER TALKING WITH MR MORGAN, ABOUT THIS WHEN- ARHA- FIRST STARTED.NOW IT HAS CHANGED AND,,,,,,,,, MY QUESTION IS WHY HAS IT CHANGED,,,,,,,, IT IS RIGHT BACK TO THE POINT THAT A PERSON WHO HAS A GRADE DOG, CANNOT RUN IT AND DON'T WANT TO.YES THEY CAN REGISTER IT AND SPEND THE MONEY JUST TO FIND OUT LATER, HEY WE GOT STANDARDS MAN RULES AND SUCH, YOU CAN'T BRING THAT JUNK IN HERE, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S HOW WE GOT THIS BIG IN THE FIRST PLACE ----WELL ENOUGH - FOR NOW GOING HUNTING-------- SOUNDS LIKE AN A.K.C. BOARD TO ME NOTHING WRONG WITH A.K.C. WE JUST DON'T NEED TWO OF THEM....?

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES