line breeding
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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guest
line breeding
i just wanted to know if anyone out there had any information on line breeding or a chart they would like to share. i am starting my on bloodline and would like the best information possible. thanks for your help.
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MDH68
Always breed best to best but use a little commen since, papers and charts do'nt make rabbit hounds.wore out boots&raged pants work better. 
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James Carman
inbreeding--linebreeding
Inbreeding is a way to set traits in your hounds. These traits can be either good or bad. One has to consider the traits of each individual hound to avoid doubling up on an undesirable trait. Never breed to a severely faulty hound just to stay within the line. One is ahead to go out of the line to correct a fault if no hound is available within the line to correct the fault. Then come back to the line for further breedings. Never breed paper to paper without regard to the individual hound. Remember to cull-cull-cull.
Line Breeding
Creating "your own" line of dogs does not mean they all have to be related and have common ancestors. Just breeding the best dogs you can find that (trait wise) match up well with your bitches should work well. Dont pass the oportunity to breed to a great dog because he is not related to your dog, or doesnt have a title. To me, Im impressed with people that have great dogs and the breeding isnt directly out of the "great ones".
Good luck
Good luck
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Gill Davis
Linebreeding
Its good to see concern on how to do it. Joes on the money.
I'd have to say that you need to see the individuals perform first and foremost to know what to do to increase the type of the same. Yet-
This is a very hard task. I'll explain this in as simple of terms I can so many can get this drift.
Lets say your compairing beagles to Rocks you skip on the water. first you need to choose the ROCK (your type of beagle)
Then you need to have your style of tossing.( your training.) and practice working the rocks across the water (DOGS IN THE FIELD)
You want a the rock that keeps going and skips well. To be a better lasting well working throwing rock.
You look down at the bank and there are millions of other rocks after you find your favorite. There all rocks but the one you picked you like the most cause so far its the best rock. You say well-there all rocks, but some are shaped different, Some are falling apart cause of makeup, and some are different colers- but there all good rocks-- WRONG!
You have to pick rocks that have some of the same shape to get that long throw. Some of the same strenth to make sure they last.
If you mix them up different rocks some of corse will always be less a throwing rock.
You may have the arm-(training down) Yet,you still don't know how to get back your favorite rock.
You need rocks from the same stone or bolder shaped much like your favorite. Although this dosn't pay -all the time and reseach anything but your satisfaction but you spend the time, effort and money.
how do you know your favorite rock hasn't got some other types of stone present in the entire bolder that falls apart? by watching, and learning what type of rock and blend and size you need- through many years of time you'll get closer to an answer. (you want consitent rocks like your favorite)
If you take Bushes beans to diner and too many show up to eat what you believe are your best beans--Then you mix in Vandercamps franks and beans to increase your beans for everyone that comes than you arn't serving bush beans anymore. __THERE MIXED YOU WON"T KNOW WHAT IT TASTE LIKE. Same with hounds.
If you keep litter of related litter for years and pick the very best-THAT YOU LIKE of the related breeding. And pour them back into the same dogs, or mix. --- WITHOUT breeding or mixing too much ingrediance in you'll get closer to a conformity of taste.(afterinspected time) two beans from the same parents weakens the beans!!!
The other worst thing is if the ingrediance is changed too much you loose the flavor, and if its over cooked you can too. If you mix too much in you loose the zest. but how do you know what to do later?
You will if you kept enough of the origanal stuff. And keep choosing your best of it.
If your starting out. The road is long cause you don't know who or what went into the origanal mix. was it a fluke? Alot of the time yes...
Maybe one dog out of your favorite litter turned out with his disire and taste for the work we want. Then you out-cross and have the same problem. what happened before to get this one other hound or can of beans. Or Rock. Did someone make the others congruent so you know what your getting? NO WAY!!!!!! So you get different type pups every time.
It takes years to make a special repetative sauce. becouse you made sure the mix was related and mixed just right. The genetic pool has many years of your best behind it- So- your make up is very simply more consistent cause you know every ingrediant was good you choose to put in and related in the same way of the distant supervisions past. Checking to make sure that they are so good your glad to put them in again , and again.
Then they have less choice to come out different cause even though They are different related things they had the same type of selection-The best of everything behind them as well.
Pedigree's can't tell you that all the time. you need to watch them develope for years to know how good the ingrediance is.
If you know in 20 years that every relative was incredable on both sides of the choosen ingrediance- you'll then be getting to know what you need.
Or buy a line developed in this way. But you don't change the name of the line cause then others can't find the mix to keep it going for others to enjoy. It will be lost!
you can change bushes name and noone will know where to find those beans ifbushes quit making them and you'll start mixing in the wrong type of beans and you too will loose the stuff it took many years to make. but oversee it and realize my own flustration when you try to help folks after your completely satisfied and every other person that trys you ingrediance is as well- but, they want to change the name so the ingrediance will soon be lost and the art of real true breeding is again guess work. after all that work and time you oversaw it to be made right.
Kina sad isn't it!
_But so very true. from first hand knowledge and experince. breeding is an art when done right. If you can show many greats no-matter where they go- Someone will be glad to take your effort away. & loose a very unselfish hard to do thing for others in our future by mixing wrong or not letting others know where the other half of what they own and need to mix back in.
One thing you can have though is great dogs in your back yard till you die unless you find someone as determined to keep them right as you where. And friends thats very hard becouse of foolishness.
know one thing for sure I do always own my own great hounds so in that way it payed off but, it slips out of your hands when you even try to help others enjoy the same.
My palns done but they need to know where there other relatives are- and won't becouse of so many Champions names will be changed so you won't know where they are or how to breed true again after I die.
And thats why everyone has such a hard time finding real true great repetitive same flavor lines.
You'll have those too that buy one great hound and mix to anything to sell unsuspecting folks what most should cull. ANd use a name that sells them to guys that wish you made more.
a way to safe guard this is watch for name changes. If there greedy enough to do this after 40 something years to make each hound right- there greedy enough to guess what they breed next to sell of the better hounds breeding as well.
I don't insist on not changing my hounds names but I wish they wouldn't cause where will the kids and guys find the real thing later for there own genetic matches of the same line? With as much time checking to make them all right in the long background without worrying about profit but making only hard working hounds to take after in the mix.
When you've bred long enough to take the same blood yet a cousin back in to say- an uncle and get 100 percent of your pups very successful- its an incredable thing. but to w2atch it thown away is the thing that will make you feel sad that it can't last for others. YOU WON"T NEED TO LOOK FOR A GOOD HOUND THOUGH OTHERS STILL WILL> Its people that lost the best laid plans.
Beagles are not a profit dog- you do the best most knowledgable things to improve what you have for you. and if you share? its an honer to those that get them. cause you will know when your completely happy with your dogs and results from long term consideration , time, thought, and hard field work to make sure you do it right.
Most won't take this kinda time cause its not worth it to them. and Im sorry to say its not since so many want to loose the lines with changing the possibillitie of finding a great a great linebred cross to breed the same dedication back in.
Beagles are not cost effective- and for me the hardest thought out breeding of our world today And for that there worth more and so grossly undervalued if done right. But, its for your own great hounds you should strive for, so you no longer have to buy 100 to get one good one.
You have to keep your breedings and train the entire litter very often to get the track laid in the right direction. and very few today have done that.
And why would they? when they can buy your work and ruin it for everyones future by hiding where there at for others to gain. Except themselves. again- I don't need a great hound I only try to share a few.
But what i am seeing is clearly- they will be lost whaen I pass if no-one cares to keep them right. and for the right reasons to share with others the happiness the effort can bring cause it sure isn't profit.
One complete outcross equals the loss of fifty percent and if a good line breeding has been practiced you'll still get better beans but soon its entirly lost! when mixing in one more thing yet again You gamble hard next. and you will lose some of your litter to no account and too much guess.
What some don't understand is this won't benefit me to take the time to share. I do it cause I know its right from doing it. I would have done better on this earth of lost breeding practices to help folks understand for no pay, and no gain, for myself. I already have great hounds and I don't sell millions and I don't pay out hundreds for adds to beg to sell. I got what i wanted but Im willing to share with some that care as I do. I won't overbreed what I cherrish to make profit. If you get a well planned pup. you'll have something that is a gift of god. cause I sure don't see why I really worked so hard to do this at times when folks are going to loose it every time I share a pup.
I love my hounds and they show they love me. I only breed some hoping that someone else will carry on what took so long to achieve- but, it looks like Im pounding my head in cement. So many don't see what i see. proof was in my last post.
Thats just how it is.
If I can't get these pups in dedicated hands its all going to be for nothing when I die.
You see im not worried about me having a great few. but those guys still going all over trying to have simply one, wondering why its so hard to find in the future as well.
this line enriched me every time I went hunting. Too bad they won't be kept alive. Im lucky im alive- often I wondered why? And I feel its to help the beagles as a breed cause when I was down they always picked me up and gave me reasons to live on.
Ive seen Miracles, I believe we all have a purpose and God has plans for us all. I was just nuts about beagles so I tried harder. Not for gain cause they sure never gave me what I spent back.
I think I'd like to help others see what I was lucky enough to learn.
If a kid like me- gets a hound like I had he'll always have something he's so happy with when the big guys take him hunting and don't want to leave him home cause his dog steals the show. There's my pay!
I'd have to say that you need to see the individuals perform first and foremost to know what to do to increase the type of the same. Yet-
This is a very hard task. I'll explain this in as simple of terms I can so many can get this drift.
Lets say your compairing beagles to Rocks you skip on the water. first you need to choose the ROCK (your type of beagle)
Then you need to have your style of tossing.( your training.) and practice working the rocks across the water (DOGS IN THE FIELD)
You want a the rock that keeps going and skips well. To be a better lasting well working throwing rock.
You look down at the bank and there are millions of other rocks after you find your favorite. There all rocks but the one you picked you like the most cause so far its the best rock. You say well-there all rocks, but some are shaped different, Some are falling apart cause of makeup, and some are different colers- but there all good rocks-- WRONG!
You have to pick rocks that have some of the same shape to get that long throw. Some of the same strenth to make sure they last.
If you mix them up different rocks some of corse will always be less a throwing rock.
You may have the arm-(training down) Yet,you still don't know how to get back your favorite rock.
You need rocks from the same stone or bolder shaped much like your favorite. Although this dosn't pay -all the time and reseach anything but your satisfaction but you spend the time, effort and money.
how do you know your favorite rock hasn't got some other types of stone present in the entire bolder that falls apart? by watching, and learning what type of rock and blend and size you need- through many years of time you'll get closer to an answer. (you want consitent rocks like your favorite)
If you take Bushes beans to diner and too many show up to eat what you believe are your best beans--Then you mix in Vandercamps franks and beans to increase your beans for everyone that comes than you arn't serving bush beans anymore. __THERE MIXED YOU WON"T KNOW WHAT IT TASTE LIKE. Same with hounds.
If you keep litter of related litter for years and pick the very best-THAT YOU LIKE of the related breeding. And pour them back into the same dogs, or mix. --- WITHOUT breeding or mixing too much ingrediance in you'll get closer to a conformity of taste.(afterinspected time) two beans from the same parents weakens the beans!!!
The other worst thing is if the ingrediance is changed too much you loose the flavor, and if its over cooked you can too. If you mix too much in you loose the zest. but how do you know what to do later?
You will if you kept enough of the origanal stuff. And keep choosing your best of it.
If your starting out. The road is long cause you don't know who or what went into the origanal mix. was it a fluke? Alot of the time yes...
Maybe one dog out of your favorite litter turned out with his disire and taste for the work we want. Then you out-cross and have the same problem. what happened before to get this one other hound or can of beans. Or Rock. Did someone make the others congruent so you know what your getting? NO WAY!!!!!! So you get different type pups every time.
It takes years to make a special repetative sauce. becouse you made sure the mix was related and mixed just right. The genetic pool has many years of your best behind it- So- your make up is very simply more consistent cause you know every ingrediant was good you choose to put in and related in the same way of the distant supervisions past. Checking to make sure that they are so good your glad to put them in again , and again.
Then they have less choice to come out different cause even though They are different related things they had the same type of selection-The best of everything behind them as well.
Pedigree's can't tell you that all the time. you need to watch them develope for years to know how good the ingrediance is.
If you know in 20 years that every relative was incredable on both sides of the choosen ingrediance- you'll then be getting to know what you need.
Or buy a line developed in this way. But you don't change the name of the line cause then others can't find the mix to keep it going for others to enjoy. It will be lost!
you can change bushes name and noone will know where to find those beans ifbushes quit making them and you'll start mixing in the wrong type of beans and you too will loose the stuff it took many years to make. but oversee it and realize my own flustration when you try to help folks after your completely satisfied and every other person that trys you ingrediance is as well- but, they want to change the name so the ingrediance will soon be lost and the art of real true breeding is again guess work. after all that work and time you oversaw it to be made right.
Kina sad isn't it!
_But so very true. from first hand knowledge and experince. breeding is an art when done right. If you can show many greats no-matter where they go- Someone will be glad to take your effort away. & loose a very unselfish hard to do thing for others in our future by mixing wrong or not letting others know where the other half of what they own and need to mix back in.
One thing you can have though is great dogs in your back yard till you die unless you find someone as determined to keep them right as you where. And friends thats very hard becouse of foolishness.
know one thing for sure I do always own my own great hounds so in that way it payed off but, it slips out of your hands when you even try to help others enjoy the same.
My palns done but they need to know where there other relatives are- and won't becouse of so many Champions names will be changed so you won't know where they are or how to breed true again after I die.
And thats why everyone has such a hard time finding real true great repetitive same flavor lines.
You'll have those too that buy one great hound and mix to anything to sell unsuspecting folks what most should cull. ANd use a name that sells them to guys that wish you made more.
a way to safe guard this is watch for name changes. If there greedy enough to do this after 40 something years to make each hound right- there greedy enough to guess what they breed next to sell of the better hounds breeding as well.
I don't insist on not changing my hounds names but I wish they wouldn't cause where will the kids and guys find the real thing later for there own genetic matches of the same line? With as much time checking to make them all right in the long background without worrying about profit but making only hard working hounds to take after in the mix.
When you've bred long enough to take the same blood yet a cousin back in to say- an uncle and get 100 percent of your pups very successful- its an incredable thing. but to w2atch it thown away is the thing that will make you feel sad that it can't last for others. YOU WON"T NEED TO LOOK FOR A GOOD HOUND THOUGH OTHERS STILL WILL> Its people that lost the best laid plans.
Beagles are not a profit dog- you do the best most knowledgable things to improve what you have for you. and if you share? its an honer to those that get them. cause you will know when your completely happy with your dogs and results from long term consideration , time, thought, and hard field work to make sure you do it right.
Most won't take this kinda time cause its not worth it to them. and Im sorry to say its not since so many want to loose the lines with changing the possibillitie of finding a great a great linebred cross to breed the same dedication back in.
Beagles are not cost effective- and for me the hardest thought out breeding of our world today And for that there worth more and so grossly undervalued if done right. But, its for your own great hounds you should strive for, so you no longer have to buy 100 to get one good one.
You have to keep your breedings and train the entire litter very often to get the track laid in the right direction. and very few today have done that.
And why would they? when they can buy your work and ruin it for everyones future by hiding where there at for others to gain. Except themselves. again- I don't need a great hound I only try to share a few.
But what i am seeing is clearly- they will be lost whaen I pass if no-one cares to keep them right. and for the right reasons to share with others the happiness the effort can bring cause it sure isn't profit.
One complete outcross equals the loss of fifty percent and if a good line breeding has been practiced you'll still get better beans but soon its entirly lost! when mixing in one more thing yet again You gamble hard next. and you will lose some of your litter to no account and too much guess.
What some don't understand is this won't benefit me to take the time to share. I do it cause I know its right from doing it. I would have done better on this earth of lost breeding practices to help folks understand for no pay, and no gain, for myself. I already have great hounds and I don't sell millions and I don't pay out hundreds for adds to beg to sell. I got what i wanted but Im willing to share with some that care as I do. I won't overbreed what I cherrish to make profit. If you get a well planned pup. you'll have something that is a gift of god. cause I sure don't see why I really worked so hard to do this at times when folks are going to loose it every time I share a pup.
I love my hounds and they show they love me. I only breed some hoping that someone else will carry on what took so long to achieve- but, it looks like Im pounding my head in cement. So many don't see what i see. proof was in my last post.
Thats just how it is.
If I can't get these pups in dedicated hands its all going to be for nothing when I die.
You see im not worried about me having a great few. but those guys still going all over trying to have simply one, wondering why its so hard to find in the future as well.
this line enriched me every time I went hunting. Too bad they won't be kept alive. Im lucky im alive- often I wondered why? And I feel its to help the beagles as a breed cause when I was down they always picked me up and gave me reasons to live on.
Ive seen Miracles, I believe we all have a purpose and God has plans for us all. I was just nuts about beagles so I tried harder. Not for gain cause they sure never gave me what I spent back.
I think I'd like to help others see what I was lucky enough to learn.
If a kid like me- gets a hound like I had he'll always have something he's so happy with when the big guys take him hunting and don't want to leave him home cause his dog steals the show. There's my pay!
-
Gill
Linebreeding
Again, not to make anyone feel bad but in most every line there was breeding made by accident and still registered, and dogs where bred to set in the house as pets at times too.
If you see one hound thats great you still don't know how many of his brothers and sisters where too! and you don't know if his parents and great grand parents wouldn't leave the porch. You can't be sure unless you raised them all before that or someone you knew raised a few as well to let you see your consistencie of the past. See- a pup can and will take after that porch setter at times if your makup has it back there. thats why some breeders cover there butt and say- well your lucky if 50 percent turn out. well yea!!!! becouse of there genetic codes makeup they can have two or three set on the porch no count lazy flea scatching useless hounds. THis isn't for my education its for those that want to know what I learned.
if you take a knife and a knife and a folk is mixed in you will get spurs if you could breed them. its in there code after that!
You do need to know more of the hunt factors of all the history to be more sure of what you get. full outcrosses can be a huge gamble that there was not only porch potatoes and house pet salesmen in the past!
the more you expariment and outcross the more you gamble that maybe the good dog you see was the only pup that turned out good in the entire litter he or she was born out of-If you know nothing about it!
Why is this so hard for folks to comprehend??? How many folks do you know that drove a thousand miles to breed a crummy hound to a world spoken champion- and your friend got one that crapped in the box and wouldn't hunt? you know why so many dogs can't produce?? cause they didn't always come form the best dogs !! they were the best at times born in the entire background. ( a fluke)Yet, so many folks have the idea that cause ones good all he breeds will be too. If a dogs not bred with at least 6 fantastic hounds on both side of his line he won't come as close to reproducing as good a pup as one that was. cause the one that is bred to well known of working relatives of the same kind of dogs , in the past turned out as good as he did. This hound has all those other greats behind him to take after as well--- with out floor wetters and porkchop porch hunters.
Overseeing it all is the only true way to know your gambling less. By tightening up the better chances by lack of guess work of whats behind them cause YOU SAW IT!!!! You later may even see one take after one of your favorite you miss terribly.
And you can't take simply everyones word. thats why so many guys are searching so hard people sell as many as they can some times.
I don't advertise and can't keep enough dogs and tick some off cause I don't breed as many as others- and they wait so long.
If I advertised I could no way keep up with demand. and I'd have no choice but to sell culls- I'd have to buy complete out-crosses to breed enough dogs and I'd be guessing more again of what GENETIC OR CHEMICLE MAKEUP was behind the out-cross- I couldn't know!
Its impossible almost!.
I used to do full outcrosses with other good dogs I bought to other good ones and guess what folks always wanted the pure ones I liked more. why? cause they were better! I knew they were but I wanted to sell some beagles but I wouldn't sell mine or overbreed them. but, I had so many folks say this dog isn't this or that when I used two other good or so called great lines opposite each other that I got rid of them as well and quit breeding that type- its simply too much gamble. it wasn't working like knowing. I kept the name of there dogs past on the dogs as well and glad I did cause they wern't reproducing near the kind of pups I could. glad I did. If you sell ten million of one line and had a few good ones in it what do you think you'd see 1000 do? theyed win but how many did they breed to have 1000 win. whats one million take away a thousand. and what about all those others that did nothing? who lost?
I know cause I did it.
You can out-cross a long time linebred bunch and you should once in a while to the hound that is THE most impressive hound as far back as you can find out about. but you still won't know most of them.
You keep that entire litter train it. and if they all turn out take the best of them back into your line and power up. but only do it every few years like 10 or fifteen. again if they don't turn out you may have made the wrong out-cross choice and you don't want to make mistakes so you try another and if your pups turn out good but not as good as your great ones folks never even had one that good in there life you get rid of them cause you see they still arn't as good as you need.
It would take hours to explain. and years to do it like I do. But you gamble every time you don't know them all in the background and even gamble a slight bit when you do but, much less.
Im giving years of experience and advise for free! take it or leave it. I know I am a happy owner and won't try to change what I have.
If you see one hound thats great you still don't know how many of his brothers and sisters where too! and you don't know if his parents and great grand parents wouldn't leave the porch. You can't be sure unless you raised them all before that or someone you knew raised a few as well to let you see your consistencie of the past. See- a pup can and will take after that porch setter at times if your makup has it back there. thats why some breeders cover there butt and say- well your lucky if 50 percent turn out. well yea!!!! becouse of there genetic codes makeup they can have two or three set on the porch no count lazy flea scatching useless hounds. THis isn't for my education its for those that want to know what I learned.
if you take a knife and a knife and a folk is mixed in you will get spurs if you could breed them. its in there code after that!
You do need to know more of the hunt factors of all the history to be more sure of what you get. full outcrosses can be a huge gamble that there was not only porch potatoes and house pet salesmen in the past!
the more you expariment and outcross the more you gamble that maybe the good dog you see was the only pup that turned out good in the entire litter he or she was born out of-If you know nothing about it!
Why is this so hard for folks to comprehend??? How many folks do you know that drove a thousand miles to breed a crummy hound to a world spoken champion- and your friend got one that crapped in the box and wouldn't hunt? you know why so many dogs can't produce?? cause they didn't always come form the best dogs !! they were the best at times born in the entire background. ( a fluke)Yet, so many folks have the idea that cause ones good all he breeds will be too. If a dogs not bred with at least 6 fantastic hounds on both side of his line he won't come as close to reproducing as good a pup as one that was. cause the one that is bred to well known of working relatives of the same kind of dogs , in the past turned out as good as he did. This hound has all those other greats behind him to take after as well--- with out floor wetters and porkchop porch hunters.
Overseeing it all is the only true way to know your gambling less. By tightening up the better chances by lack of guess work of whats behind them cause YOU SAW IT!!!! You later may even see one take after one of your favorite you miss terribly.
And you can't take simply everyones word. thats why so many guys are searching so hard people sell as many as they can some times.
I don't advertise and can't keep enough dogs and tick some off cause I don't breed as many as others- and they wait so long.
If I advertised I could no way keep up with demand. and I'd have no choice but to sell culls- I'd have to buy complete out-crosses to breed enough dogs and I'd be guessing more again of what GENETIC OR CHEMICLE MAKEUP was behind the out-cross- I couldn't know!
Its impossible almost!.
I used to do full outcrosses with other good dogs I bought to other good ones and guess what folks always wanted the pure ones I liked more. why? cause they were better! I knew they were but I wanted to sell some beagles but I wouldn't sell mine or overbreed them. but, I had so many folks say this dog isn't this or that when I used two other good or so called great lines opposite each other that I got rid of them as well and quit breeding that type- its simply too much gamble. it wasn't working like knowing. I kept the name of there dogs past on the dogs as well and glad I did cause they wern't reproducing near the kind of pups I could. glad I did. If you sell ten million of one line and had a few good ones in it what do you think you'd see 1000 do? theyed win but how many did they breed to have 1000 win. whats one million take away a thousand. and what about all those others that did nothing? who lost?
I know cause I did it.
You can out-cross a long time linebred bunch and you should once in a while to the hound that is THE most impressive hound as far back as you can find out about. but you still won't know most of them.
You keep that entire litter train it. and if they all turn out take the best of them back into your line and power up. but only do it every few years like 10 or fifteen. again if they don't turn out you may have made the wrong out-cross choice and you don't want to make mistakes so you try another and if your pups turn out good but not as good as your great ones folks never even had one that good in there life you get rid of them cause you see they still arn't as good as you need.
It would take hours to explain. and years to do it like I do. But you gamble every time you don't know them all in the background and even gamble a slight bit when you do but, much less.
Im giving years of experience and advise for free! take it or leave it. I know I am a happy owner and won't try to change what I have.
-
Guest
linebreeding
Thanks to Gill for taking the time to share some of his personal experience with the rest of us.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, the article on cleansing the gene pool in the Feb. TAB was also very informative along the same lines.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, the article on cleansing the gene pool in the Feb. TAB was also very informative along the same lines.