cold nose

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:28 pm

I know some don't like the cold nose dogs that can run a track in bad conditions. I have a 4 year old bitch I am hunting right now and she is one that most might say is too cold nosed. It was 45 degrees today and I will tell you what she did. She started a rabbit at 2 o'clock and RAN it for 2 hours. She didn't have to put her head down too much. Just ran along like she was out for a Sunday drive. She had a few checks and had to put her nose down but most of the time you could not even see her smelling. If you didn't know better you would think she was just running along barking. No work to it at all. In the zone. Hooked up. We saw the rabbit many times and she jumped it several times also. She made it look easy. WHY? Because it was easy! WHY? Because she has that cold nose and tons of hunt and desire and brains. She was running as strong when we caught her as when she started. She was setlled in and pacing herself. It was no effort and she could have done this all day because she has that great nose. No warm nose dog can run like this dog can. They can do it for a while but it would be work to them. This dog will run like this much longer than a warm nosed dog because she is in her comfort zone. Cruise control. No effort. All you folks that are trying to convince me that my cold nosed dog has faults are living in a dream world. I say you have never seen a really top dog with a cold nose AND BRAINS!. No warm nosed dog can be a top dog. No warm nosed dog can do what the same dog with a cold nose can do. Your problem is that the only cold nosed dogs you have owned were probably worthless because they didn't have any intelligence. I will tell you that if you are going to breed the cold nose into them, you need to have the intelligence in your strain first. To have both is simply too hard for most folks to accomplish so they don't even try. The reason is because if you put a cold nose on a hound that wants to run only foot scent, you are in for trouble. They will fart around all day on a bad track. You must put the cold nose on a dog that will lift its head up and run body scent. They have to want to wind scent instead of running footprints. They have to be jump dogs. They have to have lots of desire and endurance. They must also be able to walk a bad track with their head down. It is hard to get all this in one dog. Most can't do it because they either don't have the genetics, or don't know what to do with it when they get it. Breed all the hot nosed dogs you want, but don't bash the folks that are able to breed a cold nosed dog just because you haven't seen it. You look foolish to the people that have..

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:31 am

Bob,

Sounds like my old girl.
NYH

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:04 am

thats a good post bob

. we need more dogs like that.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:16 am

Great post Bob! When the scent lays well a smart hound will lift it's head to take advantage of the high scent. It will seem as you described, a Sunday drive, for the hound is running scent that is described as being like a vapor trail left from a car on a cold morning. The hound will also run closer up on the rabbit with few checks for the high scent will round off some of the turns but will not last as long so the hound must stay close.
Sounds like your hound did a good job

...Patch

bowhunter59 · Post by **bowhunter59** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:25 am

sounds like ur hound did a great job but i have a question..how long did it take her to get it up did she bark many times ? before she actually made a line witrh this rabbit just how long did it take>???if a short period then i wont say she was a cold nosed dog if 5 minutes or more defintely a cold noser and u can keep her .. just curious

Post by **Bev** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:31 am

The best favor one can do his kennel is to remove the wristwatch before running dogs.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:18 pm

bowhunter---the first problem with answering your question is that you need to define what you mean by a cold nosed dog. Its a word game on the board that I don't want to play. Some think cold nosed means a hounds tracking style or intelligence. I use the term correctly meaning a nose that can smell rabbit scent more effectivlely than it needs to under normal running conditions. This has nothing to do with style or jump ability or intelligence or babbling or whatever else you think means cold nosed. The term is widely misused in Beagling talk. It is incorrectly used to define other traits it is not related to. Beagling lingo and jargon is stereotypical and needs to be more accurate. The amount of time it takes to start the rabbit is always going to be quicker with a dog with a better nose over time and many rabbits. If both dogs have the same jump ability, the one with the best nose wins.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:27 pm

After reading your post again I think you might mean is she a stupid dog. The answer is no and yes I will keep her thankyou as she is better than any warm nosed dog and proves it time after time in her ability to help me harvest rabbits. I have only been in Beagles since 1965 so don't have the experience of many but I have had more success with these type dogs than the warm nosed ones. Also had more success with smart jump dogs than dumb jump dogs. Same with tracking and so forth. Have to breed for brains first. Many breeders try to make up for lack of brains by breeding a warm nose. Good luck!

WELLS WOODS · Post by **WELLS WOODS** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:57 pm

I agree Bob, people should never breed for less nose to keep thier hounds clean; they should breed for more brains.

Joe West · Post by **Joe West** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:22 pm

Bob: I don't think anyone is against a cold nosed Hound if the phrase means a powerful nose. They are only against Cold trailing. ON the other hand if the phrase warm nose means poor nose then it would be safe to say that we would all be against that. The terminologey you use Cold nosed hound and warm nosed hound are not terms that I use so if I have their meaning incorrect please let me know.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:20 pm

breeding for more brains sounds simple enough. I harp on that but know as well as anyone that it is a hard thing to do. I know we have to make do with what we have until something better comes along. It is no simple matter to get it all in one dog and have them produce like kind. It is easier to take a little nose from them to keep them clean as Wells Wood says. Many dogs with excellent noses simply don't have the brain to make it work. Intelligence or aptitude is a tricky thing to hold in a line of dogs. You can inbreed it but find you can get dogs that are too smart. There seems to be a certain type of dog that you can inbreed successfully and still get the brains. Don't try to use dogs that are hyped up or nervous types. These traits get doubled up in your cross and screw things up for you. Only use the dogs that are not silly or fussy. Use the ones that act like old dogs when they are pups. The real steady ones but even that doesn't always work. I had a bitch once that was just about too smart but I could handle her and keep her out of trouble. I never could get her to produce her brains no matter what type dog I crossed her with. I finally bred her back to her grandfather and got one bitch that was as smart as she was but didn't have her little quirks. I considered myself lucky because I knew her pup would produce but never got to breed her and all the effort was lost. It can be and has been done though. Test and evaluate your breeding stock under adverse conditions and slowly a better dog will be produced.

WELLS WOODS · Post by **WELLS WOODS** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:00 pm

You are right; breeding that special hound is easier said than done. One that has the desire to be ready to go any time, any place and hunt the thickets like he doesn't feel pain; one that has the nose to run even under the toughest scenting conditions and find those old long checks that most dogs would give up on; and one that has the intelligence to know how to control that strong nose and desire.
Dogs like this don't come along very often; I've had a about 5 out of about 105 that I could tolerate; They are far from perfect , but hopefully they will produce dogs similar to themselves. My plans are to stay within the same family of hounds and breed only the best in ability and conformation and hopefully I can at least keep a few hounds that suit me for years to come; the good LORD willing.

laal · Post by **laal** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:23 pm

The reason I like big nosed dogs that don't open on a cold trail is what happens when the dog puts its nose on the rabbits a$$. If the dog opens the rabbit moves, if it keeps its mouth shut it will get close to the rabbit before it jumps.
I LIKE THE SCREEM, THE SITE RUN!! How many times do cold trailers that open on the cold trail do this?
It is a fault if a dog opens on a cold trail.

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:16 pm

laal how can you honestly say the dog is at fault for opening.Try this senerio I'm out running hare 2-3 strays bouncing around getting out of the way I watch were they go,temps are 15 deg 6" of week old snow and the line is 15-20 old now I call dogs over and put them on the line dogs start picking away on the line after say3-5 min they warm track up where you know the hare is moving again how could you call that a fault and yet the way I see that dogs had to cold trail it cause the temps and snow are common sense tell me that track was cold. My definition of faulty dogs are anything over 6mths old not able to go in solo or in company and jump and run rabbit or hare almost or at least once around to the gun.Steve

laal · Post by **laal** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:31 pm

Steve I would not call that a cold trail. You are talking about a rabbit that is up and running or at least moving. I can not give an opinion on what happens when it is as cold as you talk about, I am from south Alabama and if I run in a frost it is a different ball game.
I wish you could tell me why a dog should bark before it has a rabbit up.

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