The complete hound

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Pretty soon we will have an answer to all of these tantalizing questions about genetics. It wasn't very long ago that scientists figured out size of all dogs were linked to chromosome 15 and more specifically just a few genetic sequences within that chromosome 15 individual sequences out pf 30 million I think..

We have the technology now to figure out exactly why some dogs are slow and some are fast. We can isolate any gene at all within a k9 genome but there is just a few problems. Within the next 15 years household computers should be able to handle most of the technology needed to genetic mark anything your heart could desire.

But first,

1. Someone has to WANT to figure it out scientifically and dedicate a good part of their life studying it. Right now, not a lot of people are offering grants at at schools or Bio labs to study Beagle speed genetic markers.

2. You need a super-fast computer that can statistically analyze the data and not take decades to go through billions of base pairs.. Right now all the best computers in biology are being used for disease research and things that people care more about than beagle speed.

3. You need people to volunteer to donate DNA from traditional brace lines and the super fast, run to overtake dogs.. A good sample size would probably be about ten dogs from each group preferebly all heavily related in a pedigree.

Don't really know why I posted all that, just sayin I guess.... I may have my Advanced Biology class call some vet schools and find out what we would need to do in order to look at something like this for a project..

Or you could just call Dexter Reffitt. If you can get ahold of him.

[gwyoung]

maple Valley, Very good answer.You would think the folks who are involved in Science who are trying to breed better beagles would be wise enough to simply ask someone who is doing it! Now, I am all for science but I don't believe those of us that are trying to breed better beagles need to see our Biology teachers before we do so, I believe this would lead to a backwards path. But hey, I may be wrong but I haven't seen anyone post as to the contrary and show some evidence of their claim, several examples would be nice!

[chapkosbeagles]

I have talked to a lot of old timers they say that we are breeding for speed( hot nose tight lipped hounds)
They said they olny breed what fed um period( colder nose hounds that could run in any condition. Alot of the old boys say we are getting away from what feeds up to what can win summer trials

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

mo Beagler, Go back and see what everyone else is aware of, The very next post after your's was not mine as you incorrectly state. look at it again. furthermore you were not the only one who mentioned Biology. look at that again. No apology necessary, just try to get the facts straight will be apology enough. Now to get to the heart of the matter I simply asked if anyone thought their Biology teachers were capable of breeding better beagles than the greats who have done it. Simple question for all, if you think yes than say yes if you think no than say no. This is all it means, you do not have to attack the question, or even answer for that matter. I can't make it any more simple than that!

I am pretty sure everyone on this board is smart enough to figure out you were refering to me regardless of what your trying to say. I don't even care that you were, its no big deal to me... The thing that got me scratching my head was this jem of a statement:

I have a feeling there are actual breeders that know a lot more about how genetics work than do Biology teachers. This includes the breeders of Horses and such as well as the breeders of dogs. How some think things should work compared to how they actually do constitutes a big difference. I personally don't believe there is a Biology teacher on the planet who understands how genetics work ( at least in Beagles and probably other animals as well) better that The Likes of the Krpans, Or what George Nixon understood. These people proved their theories time and time again.

You do realize biology teachers invented the term and define the meaning of genetics. To say that someone who puts two dogs together to breed knows more about genetics than someone who has studied actual genetics for a minimum of four years and when you get into Ph.D's upwards of 20 years, is either meant to be disrectful or shows your SEVERE and UTTER lack of understanding.

You do realize that a geneticist can code the entire DNA sequence of a hound and manipulate ANY SINGLE chain of DNA to get whatever results he or she wanted right? Faster speed, more nose (assuming there is only a few genes for that trait) size, brain, or insert whatever trait you wanted... Thats not sceince fiction, its science fact... I've watched them do it on monkey's, beagles, and rats.. Most universities use beagles to study genetic traits becasue they are so friendly and genetically similar that it makes for an easy study. Look it up if you don't believe me...

Mo Beagler, I am sorry, but I forgot to answer what you pose in your last paragraph. You say I am confused and that I am mistaken "Could' with "Are". Go back and look at the question again. I did not ask if they are doing it at all . ( for someone who " defends science you sure have trouble with comprehension) I asked if they " knew" how, I asked if they were " capable" . This sounds like " could" and not " are" doesn't it. It was a fair question , and I am sorry you did not understand it. Now, since you are a Biology teacher, ( yes, this is a question for you since you wanted to jump in.) do you think Biology teachers know more about breeding hounds than the average person who has bred several champions in the field under many different registries, including some who have even bred world champions. And if so what is your evidence for it? Have you bred any hounds , being a Biology teacher How did they work out for You, lot of Champions? And you say the Geneticists, Biologists, and Vets do not know more than the " serious ' breeders How come? and how would you characterize a " serious" breeder. Just curious. Once again thanks for jumping in and showing the willingness to answer questions!

I will answer this question for the third time.. Yes I think Biology teachers (specifically refering to college teachers not high school teachers) know more about breeding hounds than the average person who bred several champions.. Again, this is because they have more information available to them not because they are smarter or have done it for decades. They can isolate traits and modify them or they can isolate them faster by looking at the traits beagles have and breed dominate traits into them and bad traits out of them quicker than just by chance. Thats why even sometimes the best crosses on paper don't ever produce anything. The hardest part of breeding is that you don't know what dominate and recessive traits will be passed on with certanty. Biologists can eliminate some (not all) but some of the randomness to breeding. They just don't spend a lot of time on the subject of beagles because there is no money into it. Most of us are poor!

I already answered the question about breeding hounds. I have not... I should have said professor instead of teacher.. Most high school teachers don't know a whole lot abut how you actually modify DNA and even if they did, don't have the million dollar equipment to do so..

As far as your statement about horse breeding you ARE WAY WAY WAY wrong... Take a tour of the Budweiser plant and talk to the Kleidsdale biologists. They make 100 percent of the breeding selections and make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to do studies on them and produce the best horses. And they do. No one else in the world comes even in a distant second to those guys. Again, not cause they are smarter but because they have the equipment to do so.. There is a LOT of money in horses because people who own the cream of the crop are wealthy and spend whatever it takes to get the best. Beaglers just don't have the resources to get the job done and make a biologist care enough about studying speed and drive. But they could if they wanted to. that is a fact.

I guess you are looking for me to site a study and I can't give you one because I am not aware that is has been done. but I have seen it done in other animals on first hand experience and know they could do it. I saw it everyday at MU when I took care of the animals for a semester for extra cash. I can say though that without vaccines that chemists and biologists make and vets to keep animals healthy you probably wouldn't even know what a beagle was. Worms, parvo, rabies, heart worms and everything else would have done the domestic k9 in by now. Hell, if I could have got my professors to study beagles I would have!! THey sure had enough of em cages to study but mostly they studied diseases on them or the effect of drugs they want to use on humans.

[ohlinger]

lmao...here we go again...this board is always good for a couple laughs... ......when you get this accomplished let me know i'd like to buy one of these geneticaly altered p.h.d certified perfect hounds...

[bucks better beagles]

I have once again learned one lesson from this kind of post. Never ask it. Everybody knows what a complete hound is but nobody agrees on how to get them or even the qualifications. If you take the chance factor out of breeding dogs, you remove all the excitement. GW is right. We don't need to talk to a professional. Just breed the best to the best and hope for the best.

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, Go back and look at my original post, What I am pretty sure most ( not including you ) can see is my post though an honest question was definitely aimed at chapkosbeagles remark about Biology, ( that is why it was after his post and not yours) but was not aimed at him it was a question for all. No ill will intended to anyone but it is obvious to all but perhaps you who I was addressing. to be honest with you I rarely ever read your posts unless you address me). Thank you for at least answering the question of whether Biology teachers know more about breeding beagles than most houndsmen. ( why do they not know more than all of them, I think this would be interesting answer.) But you can't give one example of them ever displaying this ability,of it ever being done, not one single shred of evidence to back up your claim and you never done it and have never seen it done. This is all that needs to be said I asked a question , you have answered it, with absolutely no results or evidence to back up your claim. That is called an unproven theory my friend not a fact. if you can find any evidence to back up any claims you make in the future it will lend a little more credibility to your 'stories". Oh yea, thanks for the info about how the domestic dog would have been dead by now . Let me give a Biology student a little History lesson. Domestic dogs were walking this planet thousands of years before man ever invented a vaccine for anything. I will now resume my normal practice of skipping your post but I think I will also skip the ones addressed to me as well. No facts in them.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Mo Beagler, Go back and look at my original post, What I am pretty sure most ( not including you ) can see is my post though an honest question was definitely aimed at chapkosbeagles remark about Biology, ( that is why it was after his post and not yours) but was not aimed at him it was a question for all. No ill will intended to anyone but it is obvious to all but perhaps you who I was addressing. to be honest with you I rarely ever read your posts unless you address me). Thank you for at least answering the question of whether Biology teachers know more about breeding beagles than most houndsmen. ( why do they not know more than all of them, I think this would be interesting answer.) But you can't give one example of them ever displaying this ability,of it ever being done, not one single shred of evidence to back up your claim and you never done it and have never seen it done. This is all that needs to be said I asked a question , you have answered it, with absolutely no results or evidence to back up your claim. That is called an unproven theory my friend not a fact. if you can find any evidence to back up any claims you make in the future it will lend a little more credibility to your 'stories". Oh yea, thanks for the info about how the domestic dog would have been dead by now . Let me give a Biology student a little History lesson. Domestic dogs were walking this planet thousands of years before man ever invented a vaccine for anything. I will now resume my normal practice of skipping your post but I think I will also skip the ones addressed to me as well. No facts in them.

Its after his post because this thread does not allow you place it before or after anything... You have to let your comment fall in order that it was received. You are only fooling yourself and I don't care if you read my posts or not... Your not hurting my feelings at all.. Matter of fact, its kind of better that way so I don't have to bother thinking about replying to you everytime you say somehting stupid or ask a question you really don't want an answer to.. And with your attempt at berating me it leaves even less doubt that your first response was intented for me..

Just for the heck of it, and I have no idea why other than I am super bored right now, let me resond to your statement about domestic dogs with another analogy... (you know to the rest of the board since its clear your practice is to not read my posts) Humans have also been around fro tens of thousands of years too but they sure as heck didn't live 70-100 years old and were smaller with less muscle and lived or died based on the enviornment around them.. The reason people and animals are "better" now and lvie longer, are bigger, healthier, stronger, faster, smarter, etc... is because we got rid of diseases killing people and finding better food sources and figuring out what works and what doesn't work through experiment and design. Sure if we didn't have modern medicine around beagle may still be here but thats highly unlikely, parvo wasn't even around 50 years ago and rabbies would force communities to euthanize most animals for the protection of people.

Since your so high on "facts" prove to me a back yard breeder knows more about genetics than a GENETISIST... That seems like the more ridiculous statement of the ones that have been flying around.. You can't, and unless your really ignorant (and maybe you are, seems like a possibility at this point) arguing against the fact that scientific advancements in the world have helped out Canines and therfore beagles is ludicris..

But we both know your question had nothing to do with actual fact or science. You just threw some rather dumb statement out of thin air because for wahtever reason when we talk about medicine, sceince, biology or anything into a topic your defense mechinism or your ego kicks in and you have to attack it. Maybe you had a crappy teacher growing up? I don't know but I will stoip writing now because your probably not reading this... I'll take your lack of a response to be so unless you really do read my comments and just needed somehting to say against me because you know your wrong.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Since your so high on "facts" prove to me a back yard breeder knows more about genetics than a GENETISIST
Would you please tell me how to pronounce this------ Also where would i aquire this degree? Thanks again.

[gwyoung]

Folks,just thinking about some recent "revelations" as compared to some other things. I have had to re-think some of the beliefs that I have commonly held and admit I was possibly wrong. Most notably, A friend of mine who I thought was completely Loony because he believes in the Tooth Fairy. I am now convinced that there is in fact a Tooth Fairy. Here is why. He told me he has never seen the Tooth Fairy, Has never heard the Tooth Fairy, Nor has he ever seen any evidence of the Tooth Fairy. Nor does he know anyone that has ever seen or heard the Tooth Fairy. Now that is good enough for me, The Tooth fairy definitely exists. You can't just overlook facts like that!

One other thing that was brought to my attention. My first post on page four had to fight one hour and 14 minutes to get on the site. I posted right after Chapkosbeagles and it apparently took over an hour to be posted. Is this normal, can we speed it up a bit? or could there be another erxplanation?

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Since your so high on "facts" prove to me a back yard breeder knows more about genetics than a GENETISIST
Would you please tell me how to pronounce this------ Also where would i aquire this degree? Thanks again.

I really really really hope that was an attack on my spelling rather than you not knowing what a geneticist is... and you can aquire a degree in the field at almost all 4 year universities that have bio and chem labs, Some universities have started calling them fancier things since the field has broadened in the last decade or so of research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneticist

Here is an older yet relevant article from the Princeton review about what a geneticist does.

http://www.princetonreview.com/careers.aspx?cid=202

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Folks,just thinking about some recent "revelations" as compared to some other things. I have had to re-think some of the beliefs that I have commonly held and admit I was possibly wrong. Most notably, A friend of mine who I thought was completely Loony because he believes in the Tooth Fairy. I am now convinced that there is in fact a Tooth Fairy. Here is why. He told me he has never seen the Tooth Fairy, Has never heard the Tooth Fairy, Nor has he ever seen any evidence of the Tooth Fairy. Nor does he know anyone that has ever seen or heard the Tooth Fairy. Now that is good enough for me, The Tooth fairy definitely exists. You can't just overlook facts like that!

One other thing that was brought to my attention. My first post on page four had to fight one hour and 14 minutes to get on the site. I posted right after Chapkosbeagles and it apparently took over an hour to be posted. Is this normal, can we speed it up a bit? or could there be another erxplanation?

I can't see, hear, taste, touch or smell your brain .... I suppose it doesn't exist either...

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Na actually i really didnt know how to pronounce it. Call me silly i suppose.

[chapkosbeagles]

Hay I still follow ya I understand how experts can select certin trates ,chromosones,genetic strains,ext

I just want to do it in my back yard not a lab any info is great

[S.R.Patch]

The problem is, "I'm afraid after we solve this crossword puzzle, we're done...