Heavy inbreeding or linebreeding

[Dave Swiger]

What I have seen most successful is breeding the best you can find that suits YOUR type hunting to another dog that suits YOU best and your chances of getting pups that will suit you are the highest.

In all breedings ever how you do it out of many choices, you will have one come out outstanding in your eyes and outstanding in the particular trial format, so much so it seems it was made for that trials rule book. When it wins lots of trials, many that trial that same format folks will breed good and bad dogs to it hoping it will bring trophies to their house. Folks that trial different formats wouldn't have it and in some cases, neither would a hunter.
Who knows, it might of had 7 brothers and sisters that were culled and buried or were so so at best.
Chances are high in that case, 7 to 1 that your breeding will take after the ones culled with exactly the same blood line as the trophy winner, but that is seldom mentioned.

The more any dog is bred, even a mediocre one, the better the chance it will produce more champions but the same chance it will produce the same percent of culls too. It has been true in any performance animal, horses or dogs, the higher the stud fee and investment, the more are bred to it and even more important the more excellent time and training will go into its pups training since so much is invested.

I had rather breed to a dog that its brothers and sisters both are good dogs rather than the big name champion that had its siblings culled hard.

john, as i have said before, dogs inbred by me and other dog at my kennels are top notch rabbit dogs first and then bred to other top notch rabbit dog of like breeding. my first concern in breeding is the quality of the dog and then pedigree. read my bottom of this post

we bred rabbit dogs to rabbit dogs to get rabbit dogs

jim, we need to get together and run dogs, we have said this for several years now

[chapkosbeagles]

hay you guys dont have to pay me to judge hounds..... a am always happy to watch some beagles run as long as you dont mind hearing the truth....


inbreed or outcross i just like a good hound yours mine or joe blow dont really matter to me

[Alabama John]

Dave,

I am not knocking anyones breeding, we all feed what we like and that is the way it should be.

Back in the day, I paid two weeks hard work pay plus shipping for a 6 week old female out of Postman after much debate between him and Diplomat. Both were the best thing going at the time and both studs were of the famous Pleasant Run Kennels. My other pups out of real good hunting stuff were thrown out the back door to start by themselves in the fields around our home. Not her, she was sent to the best starting pen and money spent on her was more than on all the other dogs combined. How many times I have seen that done by others today.

Folks that trial look for a dog that fits the rule book of whatever trial they choose to participate in. They hear of a dog that might fit,, go try it out, and if it fits the rule book of a format they have chosen to participate in, buy it and compete it, maybe make it a Grand Champion or whatever the highest award is in that format.When they find it, it might be the only throwback to another time and the other pups in the litter not be like it at all but more like the goal of the breeder that trials another format. Seen that many times too. It will be his cull.

Doesn't matter as it will win trophies competing. Bad thing is, folks will want to breed to it not really knowing its genes are for a format they wouldn't want.
That is what happens most of the time by far when folks breed to a winner instead of the total blood lines history.

Dave,i'm not telling you anything you don't know well, but trying to help novices in this beagling business better understand breeding.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

We bred for our needs and wants. Not what the beagle boards suggest. Works for us outside my small circle , I really care less.

[Pine Lakes]

I personally, am not big on inbreeding. I am however in favor of line breeding, maybe to a fault. I'm certainly not a big breeder nor do I want to be in fear of the lack of burial grounds. I've overlooked good studs for lesser dogs(still good though) in an attempt to "highlight" the characteristics of a particular line. It is my opinion that certain lines handle inbreeding and linebreeding better than others. The old Mt Zion Pete lines seemed to react differently than say the Fish Creek line of hounds. It seemed to me that heavy linebred Pete dogs could be very aggressive while the Fish Creek strain seemed to develop shyness and lose size. Like I say about everything concerning the breeding of beagles, noone has all the answers. What works for one person may be a total disaster for someone else.

Every breeding begins as a Hypothesis if you will. The Scientific Method can be applied(in a sense) to breeding.
1. Choose and define the phenomenon that you want to figure out and explain. (proven cross)
2. Collect information (data) about this phenomena by going where the phenomena occur and making observations. Or, try to replicate this phenomena by means of a test (breeding) under controlled conditions that eliminates interference's from environmental conditions.
3. After collecting a lot of data, look for patterns in the data. Attempt to explain these patterns by making a provisional explanation, called a hypothesis. (expose the offspring to consistent training and don't "cherry pick" for results)
4. Test the hypothesis by collecting more data to see if the hypothesis continues to show the assumed pattern.(Repeat the breeding) If the data does not support the hypothesis, it must be changed, or rejected in favor of a better one. In collecting data, one must NOT ignore data that contradicts the hypothesis in favor of only supportive data(cherry picking). If a refined hypothesis survives all attacks on it and is the best existing explanation for a particular phenomenon, it is then elevated to the status of a theory.
A theory is subject to modification and even rejection if there is overwhelming evidence that disproves it and/or supports another, better theory. Therefore, a theory is not an eternal or perpetual truth.

The last sentence says it all. Nothing in the world of breeding beagles is eternal or perpetual truth. There are too many factors like genetics, nourishment, socialization, training, environment, and the biggest factor is human involvement. So basically it is my theory that you can take all the information that I, or anyone else give you, and flush it down the tiolet. Good luck and remember that no matter how you breed, enjoyment is the ultimate goal.

After reading your college paper sounds boring and bs !

It's all BS! That's the point. You see everyone, littlewoody probably didn't even understand what I stated and offered a totally ignorant comment that happened to be correct(unbeknownst to him). The provervial blind squirrel finding a nut, just like breeding a good beagle.

[littlewoody]

What u wrote is bs . But some people just know how to breed hounds .

[Pine Lakes]

What u wrote is bs . But some people just know how to breed hounds .

Like who? Enlight us all so that we might share in the knowledge.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

Pine Lakes wrote:

The last sentence says it all. Nothing in the world of breeding beagles is eternal or perpetual truth. There are too many factors like genetics, nourishment, socialization, training, environment, and the biggest factor is human involvement. So basically it is my theory that you can take all the information that I, or anyone else give you, and flush it down the tiolet. Good luck and remember that no matter how you breed, enjoyment is the ultimate goal.

Probably,the best explanation of breeding ,I have heard in many years,

I have studied genetics since 1974,
And still don't know crap,But I do know line breeding is ,my favorite,,,That said you absolutely have to out cross,and inbreed,at certain times with certain hounds,the trick is knowing when to and when not to do it.
But,,you will never establish a true line of hounds that CONSISTANTLY reproduce good hounds with like characteristics ,by ,,Out crossing it's just not possable,,there are far to many variables involved,
Out of -The best 20 Hound I have ever saw,
2 or 3 were out crossed the rest were LINE BRED,,Not INBRED,,,there is big difference,I have saw the things Chip mentioned,-------->genetics, nourishment, socialization, training, environment, and the biggest factor is human involvement. Play a very big role in the out come,of ,selective breeding ,,one,,thing I would point out is some people talk about training a hound,,You don't Train a Hound to perform that is inherited plain and simple ,you can train a hound to handle,,and sometimes,if you run a pup with an older Hound it will pick up some of the older hounds style,mostly cutting and swinging,,In My opinion you can cause a hound bred to run a close line ,to cut and swing ,but,you cannot train a hound out of cutting and swinging hounds to run close.

Just my opinion.
To breed Beagles ,you have to have a passion, for the little hounds,not just look at them as a tool ,to get the job done.
Keep'em Running

[Alabama John]

That is right, the passion is the main thing in the breeding, feeding, raising, starting, culling, training, doctoring, and hauling of beagles. If a man just wanted to hunt or run with a few dogs with his friends he would be far ahead to try out some for sale and pick those individuals that run and hunt together that suit him. Make himself up a pack like he wants and buy them and not breed.
In most cases, the odds are in his favor, he will be getting the best rabbit dog for hunting or running in his situation the seller has. Probably won't have any titles, but will all be champions in his eyes and that is where it matters.

[Dale Pea]

Champion in his eyes. Wisdom comes from Alabama John, again.

[Little Indian Creek]

How does a pure bred breed start?

[cris axtell/coal hill ken]

Every breed of dog in the world today is the result inbreeding and line breeding. You pick two dogs with the traites you want then breed them. Then you keep the pups that display the traites you want and breed them back to a parent or sybling to lock in those traites. Hay wait a minute doesn't that give you bug eyed, bull leged, short eared idiots?

[bill (flint river )]

Every breed of dog in the world today is the result inbreeding and line breeding. You pick two dogs with the traites you want then breed them. Then you keep the pups that display the traites you want and breed them back to a parent or sybling to lock in those traites. Hay wait a minute doesn't that give you bug eyed, bull leged, short eared idiots?

i am not sure how long u have ben around, but i have seen a few jig hound that could shovel snow with out opening there mouth. i have seen short eared, bull legged, short mussel. so before u crack jokes, it has happen and will happen again when guys don't have the balls to cull the ones that need it.

[bill (flint river )]

just looking at a pedigree i kept from one of these hounds.

her name was taylors heartland blue bell breader was paul r smith. this hound had almost a inch of under bite. thank good i meet the fella half way, he ended up given me the hound when i bought another, she got home, ate a nice meal then was put to rest.

[cris axtell/coal hill ken]

Bill if you read the posts from Ron then you would know why I said that. If your getting dog with bad under bites you need to cull them or do not make that breeding again. I'm not stupid or kennel blind.