The American Beagler Forum

I first off want to say that I am not getting down on Midwest trials was just a little surprised after taking a few years off at the style of dog that was being promoted. We watched the final pack run and was really surprised at how far the pack was driving before they realized they had a loss. It seemed like all they could put together is about a 40 yard drive then run off the end another 40. We watched from the hillside and had a pretty good view. It seemed that all dogs were racing and not really worrying about the rabbit once again we saw where the check was claimed and where the pack ended the race, the check was well behind the pack and these dogs were barking 40 yards after the loss. I guess the reason for my distress is I want to begin trialing again as my health improves hoping to be ready this fall and I want to trial the kind of dog that would do well. I think what I am seeing is over competitiveness as I have to believe these are decent rabbit dogs when they are out of the trial scene. I like a dog that will run the rabbit and make the turns as fast as they can. I like a dog that can pick a check with no over run or a slight over run giving no mouth when they com off the end. I do like a fast hound but it has to be right and a check to me is just a change in direction. Maybe I want to much but I know these hounds do exist. If you Midwest guys were looking for a hound that runs as I describe where would you look? I also want to say that it was the only trial I have been to in years and might not be representative of all Midwest trials also if the type hound I like is not for Midwest what other formats might one look at running in. Thanks in advance Dave

IMO run the type of dog you like. Don't cater to the format or what the judges like. When you put the time in running/training your hound you know what you have regardless what others think.

He is right. Run the dog you like, I run Midwest and am happy with MY hounds. Whether they do good or bad they are mine. Keep running what you like the trials are great but they are not the measuring stand for personal taste.
Tom

not doubting your word, but never seen dogs go off the end 40 yards in small pack trial, have seen when it was wet and breezey get rough some but were running like a train wide open blistering fast caught the rabbit. in large pack on hare can get a little crazy at times. BUT challenge lies in that a smart dog can expose or capitalize off the mistakes of the pack mates. I personally feel the midwest runs a hunting style hound, and isnt like some peanut rollers down my way in carolina. Midwest is about accomplishment over style not being perfect but agree an idiot is just that needs sent home. A big nosed athletic run for fur dog can get a lot of momentum going if they fix the mistake run the bunny down or stay up close for me part of being an agressive and athletic and having the nose brains to stay up close on the rabbit- dont see that be faulty. i like to be bright eyed not yawning shivering on a stump waiting for the misery to end. gotta pick your judges or travel. most midwest guys like run to catch but lot will credit a checking clean hound too and do win. i feel certain days certain hounds can shine based on that hounds skills set give merit as earned.

If they were running that rough they shouldn't have been especially in the final pack. I've always been satisfied with Mid-West judging as a whole. I hadn't been to a trial in a couple of years & went to Mid-Ky or Jessamine's last trial. I was pleased with what I saw with the 15" male winners pack. They ran a rabbit for over two hours & never really had a long check; fast & smooth.

Thanks all for your replys. Sbeagler your right it is kind of hard to measure from the hillside so the over runs could of been less but I think they were closer to 40 than they were to 20. Please understand this was my first trial in years and could only surmise that this is the style of hound being promoted. Wells Woods that's the kind of pack I would like also, 2 hours of running with minimal breakdowns, that would sound thrilling. In closing I will say that I will continue to run the style that I prefer and go to some more and different trials and pick the style that will closely match up to my dogs style of running Thanks Tom and nhharris78 for you input as well. Dave

Why I always say I gun hunt first and trail second. Hard to kill rabbits on a dog that blows the track out of the water.

Will my opinion with field trials are, you as a beagler run hounds train them and you see that you have a nice hound that can do all that is expected to do will then you put your hound in competition. To me a houndsmen can have the best hound in the world but when you pay for a judges opinion things can change quick. For example, One of my hounds can run like a dream doing everything like a champion but if a judge see's something he or she don't like will then you get a minus. Trialing can be just someones opinion that is all, The last trial i had my hound in She ran and hunted better than the rest in the cast then she jumped a rabbit and sight chased it about 150 yards and got picked up Yes thats correct. So if you have a hound that is a awesome one and things don't go good for your hound that day just remember everyone has a opinion. Now in that respect I really like the Medwest and running beagles BUT will never take any trial Sirius because of the inconsistency in judging hounds. So if you see a hound doing things it should not be doing maybe in the judges eye it maybe doing everything right. No desrespect to judges I have a awesome time running my hounds in trials when i can but when i hear or see something that is bull or the greatest thing that ever happened i see the humor in it and move on. Having fun is what it's all about.

I promise if your dog makes the turn perfectly he won't be minused... Good lucking finding one that can do that consistently in a pack of hard driving hounds.

My philosophy about field trialing is to hope for the best & prepare for the worst. In going against competition, you need a good dog & a little luck. Judges are human & even the most honest men are going to make mistakes. When my dog messes up, I hope the judges didn't see it & when it does something good , I hope the judges are right there. If I think I have a dog that has what it takes, I'll give it about 6 trials under different judges & see what happens. In 20 years of trialing in the Mid-West, I can say every dog that I had that was good enough ended up getting good results sooner or later. Unfortunately, my luck seems to run about as good as most people's as far as getting a great hound is concerned; few & far between. If you let the results of a field trial determine whether you like beagling or not, you are in it for the wrong reason & won't last anyway. I enjoy every aspect of trying to develop a good hound & anything else is just icing on the cake.

If you want to see a good winners pack , check out one that the legend, Tony Eyers puts together.... ! I hope some of these veterans can keep on judging and help guide the new guys. Long live the Mid-West.

WELLS WOODS wrote:My philosophy about field trialing is to hope for the best & prepare for the worst. In going against competition, you need a good dog & a little luck. Judges are human & even the most honest men are going to make mistakes. When my dog messes up, I hope the judges didn't see it & when it does something good , I hope the judges are right there. If I think I have a dog that has what it takes, I'll give it about 6 trials under different judges & see what happens. In 20 years of trialing in the Mid-West, I can say every dog that I had that was good enough ended up getting good results sooner or later. Unfortunately, my luck seems to run about as good as most people's as far as getting a great hound is concerned; few & far between. If you let the results of a field trial determine whether you like beagling or not, you are in it for the wrong reason & won't last anyway. I enjoy every aspect of trying to develop a good hound & anything else is just icing on the cake.

Mr Wells this may be the best post I have ever read on here.

Very nice post Mr Wells

I think you should watch a few of the 13 inch classes. I have ran both 15's and 13's and I think you will find that the 13's inherently run cleaner due to the smaller size. I like a dog that runs the way you describe your hounds and I have had the best luck with the smaller hounds. I have seen nice packs in all classes but I keep getting drawn back to the 13 inch classes because it just fits the style I like better.. Give it a try with your best hound and have some fun. You may be surprised that your hounds fit better than you think.. I would try the 13's or even big females...Best of luck to you and I hope to see you at a trial soon...

By the way I joke with my buddies and tell them I set my sights real low so I am happy with the outcome and don't get disappointed...
My friend told me if your dog runs the way you trained it and you expected it too then be happy because that is as much as you can ask for..
Every dog has its day.

SMITTY1233 wrote:I promise if your dog makes the turn perfectly he won't be minused... Good lucking finding one that can do that consistently in a pack of hard driving hounds.

Why you solo a hound, and hope your's has the brains to know when to gear down and stay on track.

Jerry Blair, once a well known and respected AKC LP on Hare licensed trial judge in the Northeast use to say, "A good gun dog sometimes will make a good trial dog but a good trial dog should always be a good gun dog."

If you actually spend some time reading the AKC standard for a true hunting beagle Jerry's statement is valid. The bigger problem s that most of us breed/buy what we like in a hound which can often not be in line with the standard. In the world of mass production (equipment components/parts) adherence to standards is critical to reproducing replacement parts. I understand dogs are living things and as such precision is very limited. Yet if we all liked the same type of hound we might stand a better chance of consistently producing type and quality.

About the best we can do is to team up with people who like the same type hounds we enjoy and hope we can reproduce likeness.