politics of our sport that need to be addressed

[THALL]

Sorry, but I didn't belittle anyone. AKC needs judges thats a fact. You talk like you know dogs, and you are young and can run. You complain about the same people winning. I'd just like you to get your feet wet, and learn how difficult it is to judge a pack of nice hounds. I was like you at one time. I'd flap my jaws until i judged a few and seen what it's like to judge a pack of dogs that were all pretty nice. My invite is open to you anytime!

[TC]

I HELPED Judge 56 little Males at a Derby Trial One Time ( Whew ) That Right there Told me I wasnt near as Good as I thought I was LOL
Was Told we did an Excellent Job Brought back a Awesome Final pack And was Invited to judge a few Trials not to long after that..
Just before I was scheduled to Judge Got as Call From the Club (UBGF/DSBGF) and was told that I had been Voted Down by the members of the Club to judge as I liked a little Stronger Dog than They Did ???????
Said oh Well no problem Same thing with the Next Club 4 months later in the meantime I had judged 2 more derby trials AGAIN I was told that my services Would not be needed as again I Liked a little Stronger hitting Dog than their members wanted,?????
I Also Took longer than they liked When judging and MADE the handlers Stay back away from the Hounds unless called for..
I And my partner (After discussing it) in two trials also Required Every Hound to be able to HUNT We Jumped NO rabbits for these hounds and made them hunt their own SOME seemed to take Offense to this.. Especially When they were cut for not Hunting!! In Each Of these instances We brought back a Good Winners Pack that was able to Get the job Done and Not take 4 rabbits to do it.
The ONLY correlation I could Come up with is that in all three trials the Same folks were there and only One of them placed a hound that later became a FC. And THEY had been Consistently placing before we judged...
I Placed My name with AKC midwest But was Never asked by them to Judge.
Now I only Know of a Few Folks who can Actually keep up with a pack of hounds BUT if a person has Ever Spent time in the Field with hounds they Know that you Do not have to Stay with them to judge them. Experience will tell you that you can Cut the hounds off and see a lot by Doing so!! More than you can trying to Struggle over the top of brush pile or through the thick Stuff!!! just because a fella is a little older and a little bit heavier Dont mean they Cannot judge and bring back a Good pack of hounds
Some just Dont like it When you judge By the Rules......

[chapkosbeagles]

teddy i did not see where you said you would feed me and put me up. if this is really the case i would take the time and come down althow i am still on my appprentice ship as i cant get anyone to even let me in the door so i dont get paied yet but would still come on down call me 19897257836 i will give you all my info


but guys junk wont place under me. i am a real houndsman that is honest and will pick up hounds even if they are handled by branko himself. if they are not pulling weight they will pull you to the truck.

[chapkosbeagles]

let me start by saying over the last few years i have bought mid west champions that COULD NOT RUN WITH SOME OF THESE 8 MONTH OLD PUPS I HAVE. YEAH I HAD TO CULL UM. THEY WERE JUNK WONDER WHO WAS JUDGING THIS HOUND TO FINISH IT.

I THINK MID WEST RUN A SLOWER MORE CONSERVITIVE HOUND I CAN DANG NEAR CRAWL AROUND THE BUSH TO JUDGE THEM. TEDD I PROMISS WHEN I PULL THESE HOUND OUT THE TRUCK YOU WILL LOOK AT THEM AND SAY IF THEY MAKE THE STAND THEY ARE GOING TO BE HARD TO BEAT. THAN YOU WILL SEE MY BEST RUN AND ASK WHAT A PUP WILL COST YA I MIGHT CLEAN YOUR PEN OUT HOPE THEY ARE NOT SITTERS AS HE WILL PICK THEM OFF THE GROUND. IF HE GETS A EYE ON THEM LITTLE COTTON TAIL IF YOU NEED ME TO CALL YOU I HAVE FREE LONG DISTANCE. I THINK IT TIME A YOUNG BUCK SHOWS YOU OLD BOYS A REAL HARE HOUND RAISED ON COTTON TAIL 300 PLUS DAYS A YEAR IS

TC I BELIEVE A GOOD JUDGE HAS TO HIT THE BRUSH THESE GUY THAT JUST CUT THE PACK OFF ARE NOT SEEING WHO IS GRUBING THE CHECKS IN THE BRUSH ALL THEY ARE SEEING IS THE DOG THAT DRIVES IT ACROSS THE TRAIL. THAT IS FINE FOR SPEED AND DRIVE BUT WHAT ABOUT THE HOUND THAT GRABED THE CHECK IN THE THICK STUFF HE DOSENT GET SCORED FOR HIS WORK. HOUND VERY SO MUCH IF YOU DONT RUN WITH THEM YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON A LOT OF SCORE AND THE GRUBERS ARE THE ONES GETTING CHEATED JMO. I WILL HAVE SCORE IF THE RUNNING IS GOOD PERIOD AND NOT JUST ON THE HOUNDS THAT CUT TO THE FRONT

[Bunnyblaster]

To be honest I did not completely read every post on this thread and I'm also going to tell you that I don't trial much either right up front. That being said here's my little humble opinion about things like this whenever it gets brought up:

.......and "you" is going to be referring to know one in particular but if you fit the description then it applies to "you"
1. I don't believe anyone should complain about the judging in any format unless you are signed up and ready to do some judging yourself..........whether or not they pick you is another story. The only exception in my book would be if for whatever reason you are incapable of judging. I've been to enough trials to know that judging isn't something most people want to do so I can see where it can be hard to find guys/gals to step in sometimes.

2. If things are really as bad as they are sometimes portrayed then I don't get keeping the names a secret either. If you're already getting "screwed" and have no chance of winning in the first place then you can't really hurt yourself anymore can you? Get the names out there and see what others think.

3. I will question anyone that will tell the world how much better they are than most everyone else. Any person that thinks that much of themselves really makes me question just how good their judgement is............whether it's a fact or not really makes no difference to me.

This last one is the most important one IMO.
4. If you really think the organization and/or it's members, judges, etc. are that crooked then either give up your free time and get involved to try to make a difference, stop complaining about it if you're going to continue to go or quit going altogether. If I can't win with what I've got either because my hounds aren't good enough or because they truly are so crooked that I don't even have a chance in the first place then you won't see me wasting my time and money entering my hounds..........unless of course I was really just going to some trials to hang out with some fellow beaglers.

I'm not all that old myself but I have learned a couple of important lessons in the past when it comes to these things whether it's beagles or anything else. One is to knowing when to cut my losses and the other is knowing when to keep my mouth shut. JMO

[chapkosbeagles]

like i said i have not taken a dog to a trial in over 2 years. these are just simple opservations made by looking in the mag. and looking at trial results. if you look. it is just the same judges placing and winning alot not saying they have bad hounds I JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE THERE ARE A LOT MORE GOOD HOUNDS OUT THERE THAN JUST WHAT THE MEMBERS OF THE CLUB OR THE JUDGES OWN. GET WHAT I AM SAYING. THERE ARE A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAT FEEL THIS WAY, BUT JUST DONT HAVE THE SHOLDERS TO HOLD THE WEIGHT OF ALL YOUR ATTACKS.


WHY CANT US AS BEAGLERS FIND SOME ALTERNITIVE TO FINDING JUDGES TO GIVE EVERYONE THERE FAIR SHOT.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD NOT GET TO PICK THE JUDGE BY VOTEING. THE CLUB PRESIDENT SHOULD BE THE OLNY ONE WHO PICKS THE JUDGES, AND THEY SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM YEAR TO YEAR UNLESS SOMEONE CANT MAKE IT EXT.

SEE IF EVERYONE CAN PICK THE JUDGES THEY CAN PICK THE ONE THAT FITS THERE DOG THE BEST (POLITICES) SEE. THAN IT GIVES THEM A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING

NOT BAD FOR A CAVE MAN HA

[Bunnyblaster]

Big shoulders and a big ego are not the same thing.........again, JMO.

I would really suggest you at least attend some trials before you bash the people that put their time, effort and money into them. You may or may not be right about the conclusion you've drawn by looking through those magazines. But telling them how to run the organization without ever being there to see if first hand would be like me telling a marine how to handle himself in a combat situation just because I watched some footage on the news. And it's ok to form an opinion from what you've seen in the mags but I just can't see preaching like you're an expert without the first hand experience to back it up.

I would think since you're so concerned about the direction their headed that you should be volunteering your time as a judge to help straighten things out for all the people that you feel are getting screwed. But then again it's generally easier to just point out faults than it is to try to do something about it huh.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

This is a hilarious Post, Thanks i needed That.

[chapkosbeagles]

bunny blaster i have been to the trials i said that i have not went for 2 years but i would like to judge anywhere on this side of the country

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Get em Chap.There are crooks everywhere dude. Midwest aint Excempt. Best Ribbon won is Fur In Mouth. I dont Need anybody telling me how great my dogs are or Aint, and paying 25 bucks for there opinion.I breed and I feed em. You Got A point but it aint gonna change save your breath.

[blitzen4]

Report this postReply with quoteRe: politics of our sport that need to be addressed
by Chris Hornick on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:11 pm

I am an officer at an AKC Beagle club. It is indeed hard to get judges to commit. Also you will have judges that will cancel at the last minute. That being said, I do believe that there are some hounds or handlers that get special treatment. A possible solution would be for the AKC to schedule judges and not have them advertised. (That probably wouldn't work but...) A lot of guys choose which trial they attend based on the judges that are advertised. I don't have the answer but I also realize that I'm sure some shady dealings have occurred. Is it possible that the guys with the best dogs are also the ones who judge?



I agree with Chris Akc should pick and schedule judges it would be nice if AKC handled this task for the clubs. I bet the clubs would see a larger turnout too.

Dave

[big rufus]

HEY SMOKIE. YOUR A OK GUYS. FUN TO TALK WITH YA, I 'M INVITING YOU TO COME BACK TO A ARHA HUNT, WE HAVE ONE NEXT SATURDAY AT OSTEGO.

[Bunnyblaster]

Then go make an effort instead of just running your mouth on here. Or don't go if you don't care for trials any more and let the guys that do trial worry about it. What have you done or thought about doing to try to make it any better? Like I said before, you may or may not be right but just flapping your lips on here or anywhere else for that matter isn't going to change a thing.

bunny blaster i have been to the trials i said that i have not went for 2 years but i would like to judge anywhere on this side of the country

I understood that part. Why don't you go? And if you don't go anymore then why do you care? What's keeping you from going out and being the best judge anyone ever saw like you said you know you could be? I said "attend some trials".......maybe I should have said "attend some more trials" because 2 years is a long time away so sorry but I wouldn't consider anyone an expert that's been away from it that long. IMO are there crooked people?? Probably, there is in any competitive sport there is.

You Got A point but it aint gonna change save your breath.

For once you are right, he should save his breath if he's not willing to spout off to the people that can make a difference or go give up his time to make it better himself. Saying he would like to judge and going to do it are 2 different things. Do either of you even have any clue how to go about trying to change the way things are done??? Have you ever complained to someone at a trial? Maybe start there and then you'll figure out who to talk to. I see guys on here all the time that will complain about stuff that goes on at trials all the time that they think is unfair or down right crooked but I have yet to see where anyone actually did anything but pee and moan about it........actions speak louder than words. I'm another guy that doesn't give a rip what a judge, or you or anyone else thinks about my dogs.........that's why I don't trial. But you also don't see me whining on here about it either.


I'll put this just special so there's no confusion and you can understand it. He may very well be right but until you're gonna try to do something about it then quit complaining......in other words "Put up or shut up". But again that probably takes too much effort.


Maybe you'll get another good chuckle out of this one too..............try to keep up.

[golden acres]

How he judges
by golden acres on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:17 pm

A friend of mine sent this on my request after hearing it on how he judges when ask by friends in their own backyards not trials.

It is called Bad to the Bone, no nonsense, call 'em as you see'em,bury'em deep and let mother nature worry about 'em

Competitive hunt and judge and score sheet

Information. Every man that hunts sees dogs and hunting through only one set of eyes. How he uses these eyes depends on many things. Not the least of which is his years of experience, philosophical bend, emotional make-up, and basic honesty I have over 45 years experience and the philosophical attitude of socrates who professed to "know this only, that he nothing knew". In addition , I strive for the emotional strenght of a Zen Monk and the basic honesty level lf atleast as good as the next man

I have been asked to judge this hunt and by the best in me, I will do so. I will do so seriously and without prejudice. I will do so with a plan and a valuation system that awards points for doing things that I like,search for and I feel others should seek outr in their dogs. Finally, I will do so without interference. Let anyone who does not like this,speak now and pick another judge. There is nothing in this for me and I do not want any grief.
I will award points based on what I see and hear. Points will be based on a range of 1-5 with 5 being highest and one being lowest. Ndgative points will also be awarded for anything which does not contribute to a good dog or a race. Pay attention here: As an example- A dog may role in or eat crap and while this may not affect a race, if I see it, it affects me and I will deduct for it because it is not a good habit and we should no contribute or condone it. Now, you know what to expect form me so if you want to continue

Let's get in on


Date
weather conditions
Dog age vs Dog age

Categories
General size: cnforms to standards. Dog is healthy with good hair and teeth No Dew claws
Soialability Is Not shy Does not fight, growl, hump other dogs, bark or crap in the box, eat crap ETC
Hunt: Must have plenty and be under control at all times
Hunt: Can find a rabbit
Handling:Must come when called-General
Handling:Catching them up when ready to go
Handling: Leads well. does not struggle to get loose
Trash: Cannot do (-5and +5 scale)
Backtracking:Cannot do (-5and +5 scale)
Mouth: One that makes you feel good to listen to
Mouth: Plenty of it but not to much
Mouth: Uses it in right places Can't bark around
Running ability: Generally can run a rabbit
Running ability Does well with other dogs
Running ability: To fast (yes is a negative point)
Running abilityTo slow (Yes is a negative point)
Running ability: As good as expected for age
Running ability: Cuts and slices (yes is a negative point)
Running ability: Doubles and gets in off loses in a hard, quick and honest manner
Pick ups heard (3 points for each)
Pick ups seen: (5 points for each)
Quality of Pick ups: can pick up a go hard
Sight cures the blind: (5 points for each good thing)

[chapkosbeagles]

well said golden acers but,as you strive to be like a monk. you have a long way to go as do i. I believe you to be a good fair judge as i know your character and would not mind running under you. At the same time i know for you to run behind these hounds and get thew the brush might be a task at hand as you are not in the shape you once were.

no way to put it out there everone knows what to aspect

THIS POST I THOUGHT APPLIED TO THE AKC MORE THAN ANY OTHER BUT YOU GUYS SURE BROUGHT ARHA OUT OF THE WOODS REAL FAST MUST BE SOMETHING TO HIDE