politics of our sport that need to be addressed

[mybeagles]

.I have sicked a dog on one I have jumped sure but after while a good hunting dog might get a lil ruined by this procedure .

Eddy,

How does sicking a dog on a jumped rabbit ruin them? I might be a little slow, but I always thought putting a dog on a jumped rabbit helps them handle a little better. I have a female that hunts extremely hard, but I have had a little trouble getting her to come to me on a fresh jump. Since I have gun hunted her some this year and put her on a few rabbits she seems to be handling better for me and able to be called into a fresh jump..... I dont know, maybe I ruined her and didnt know it?

Mybeagles

[LaMarr Rhoades]

sorry that i didnt clarify who i was,but this isnt lamarr,this is arlie jr. Im waiting on my email to activate my own account,until then ive been using lamarrs.anyway its not that i have 2 walk along with my hounds,i prefer to because i like to see what hound is doing the work.my opinion is if you dont somewhat keep up with the hounds an work along with them,then how do you really know whats goin on? i enjoy hunting along with the pack of hounds and watching them work,if i happen to jump a rabbit and i call my hounds to the jumpsite,i expect them to come,just as well i expect them to come if someone cracks a gunshot.im pretty sure that everyone enjoys a hard hunting hound,but just because your working along with them an paying attention to the pack,that dosnt mean those hounds arent hunting themselves.i know that all of my dogs go hunting an jump rabbits,or i dont keep them.i also know that they are gunned over an i like them to handle well.my opinion is akc brings back the best over all hound,everybody is entiteled to their own opinion.

[eddywilliams]

my beagles hunt your way call your dogs walk them what ever you want as will I ,oh I dont walk mine though .Out !

[Casey Harner]

I have noticed over the years that if I show my hound a rabbit that has just jumped he doesn't run it as well. I feel dogs don't have confidence in us. So now if I see a rabbit get up. I will get him over there but will allow him to find the scent himself.

[Casey Harner]

.I have sicked a dog on one I have jumped sure but after while a good hunting dog might get a lil ruined by this procedure .

Eddy,

How does sicking a dog on a jumped rabbit ruin them? I might be a little slow, but I always thought putting a dog on a jumped rabbit helps them handle a little better. I have a female that hunts extremely hard, but I have had a little trouble getting her to come to me on a fresh jump. Since I have gun hunted her some this year and put her on a few rabbits she seems to be handling better for me and able to be called into a fresh jump..... I dont know, maybe I ruined her and didnt know it?

Mybeagles

I agree with eddy. Dogs will notice how many times you take then to a fresh jump and their hunt will deteriorate after a while. When the cornetts and me went to silver creek picnic we noticed all these beaglers with tally-o sticks beating brush. They jump the rabbit and place the dogs on the hot track. They try to sale running dogs like this. I have noticed that they believe a dog hunts, by the way they run it. When a rabbit is being chased they call that hunt.


So I see eddy's point. Placing dogs on a fresh jump rabbit repeatedly after a while might tale hunt and search out of your dog. Now if its helping your hound then by all means continue......good luck.

[ohlinger]

When I judge I prefer to keep the handlers together and let the dogs work. I do watch closely for hunt, and credit a hound that hunts exceptionally hard. On the other hand, because a hound jumps 4 or 5 rabbits doesn't mean he wins the trial like other associations. It's also important what they do after they jump one. Can they run it, or are they dominated by their pack mates. Like it was stated, sometimes the handlers have to help out with getting a rabbit jumped so you dont have to judge the dogs by how well they handled and send the rest home The idea is to evaluate hounds running a rabbit.

The reason I think the AKC SPO is the best format is because of the focus on the overall dog. EVERYTHING is evaluated, not just jump, strike, check. I don't have to wait 3 minutes to determine if a dog is being disruptive to the pack. I CAN score a dog for running check free for 30 minutes. I don't have to wait 15 seconds to give a dog credit for a check. Those rules to me have nothing to do with promoting a hunting dog. I will never understand how a rough dog that creates checks is scored higher than a dog than runs smoothly.... Does any rabbit hunter want a dog creating checks???

Mybeagles

HAHAHAHA this guy at a little pack trial said "my dog creates checks just so he can pick them" It took every ounce of discipline in my body to not fall on the ground laughing at this guy. OMG! Lol I've been to 6 little pack hunts and placed a dog at every single one!!! I'm not proud of that LOL! Love the handlers yelling at the judge "check pink judge" ....."you get that check judge"?....hahaha...c'mon really you want ur dog scored for getting the check but cant see the fault in creating the check ??????????? Go on boys give those judges a hard time bc ur dog did'nt get scored on a check, but he did'nt get minused for the check he's created either......so be thankful for that. ain't quite my style, but to each there own....

[Bunnyblaster]

.I have sicked a dog on one I have jumped sure but after while a good hunting dog might get a lil ruined by this procedure .

Eddy,

How does sicking a dog on a jumped rabbit ruin them? I might be a little slow, but I always thought putting a dog on a jumped rabbit helps them handle a little better. I have a female that hunts extremely hard, but I have had a little trouble getting her to come to me on a fresh jump. Since I have gun hunted her some this year and put her on a few rabbits she seems to be handling better for me and able to be called into a fresh jump..... I dont know, maybe I ruined her and didnt know it?

Mybeagles

I agree with eddy. Dogs will notice how many times you take then to a fresh jump and their hunt will deteriorate after a while. When the cornetts and me went to silver creek picnic we noticed all these beaglers with tally-o sticks beating brush. They jump the rabbit and place the dogs on the hot track. They try to sale running dogs like this. I have noticed that they believe a dog hunts, by the way they run it. When a rabbit is being chased they call that hunt.


So I see eddy's point. Placing dogs on a fresh jump rabbit repeatedly after a while might tale hunt and search out of your dog. Now if its helping your hound then by all means continue......good luck.

Really??? Maybe if someone is doing this for the bigger percentage of total rabbits their dogs run. But if that's the case then maybe that hound isn't hunting very hard in the first place. On a typical outing how many times do you jump up a rabbit before your hounds? My dogs usually get one going before I even get a chance to see one. And I'll only put them on what I KNOW is a fresh track because I saw the rabbit. I don't just call them over to any old track that I "think" might be a fresh one.

Let me ask this as a scenario..................

If you're dogs are hunting out in front of you but happen to miss a squatted up rabbit that you jump but they don't see and that rabbit goes in the opposite direction of the dogs are you really telling me you're not gonna call your dogs over so they can get on that track??? I don't know why the heck you wouldn't.........especially on those days when just getting a rabbit up to run can be a challenge. Now if you're talking about "having" to jump rabbits for your dogs then that's a different story. I won't own a dog like that either but as a hunter if we're out and I jump one you're darned right I'm calling my dogs over.........and yours too if we're running together.

[eddywilliams]

Come on guys this is my last word on this ,we all know the meaning here .Continuously tally hoing or calling a dog or dogs to a jumped rabbit is B.s. and you know it .It can and will deteriorate a dog after a while (their hunt or desire )I understand that they have a large amount of dogs to see and they need rabbits ran to observe the hounds but this is not acceptable to me .This takes away from the most important quality in a hound in my opinion ,running the line ,check power ,I know these are all judgeable and should be but are they really looking for and counting all these qualities or just stringing it out to see which one is in better shape after 4 or 5 hours .Just on the fence about it I dont like 8 or 9 dogs down either .I like 4 or 5 down then you can really see waht is happening .Oh well none are perfect for everyone ,I am gonna go to a few and have fun

[toldyouso]

I am floored that you akc mid west gundog people would talk bad about little pack rules or what kind of none hunting dogs we own or have. I thought you all were above this wow was i fooled. what about run what you like and do not talk about other organizations. AKC is owned by a peda organization now so how long do you think they will allow you to pursue game just asking. The reason we only run for a hour in little pack is because of the number of entries that we recieve at our hunts. How many dogs were at wurtlands large pack trial. Did they have 50 total dogs. And when you make a field champion in akc you are only beating dogs in your class right. 15 dogs do not have to run against 15 females right. So if you end up with a 100 dogs you may have 25 a class so you only had to be better then 25 dogs right. I am just saying if you do not what a fellow like me saying negative things about your organization should you not practice what you preach. We all have a opinions like you all say run what you feed.I can probley not win in your format though i have. And maybe you have won in ours. But to really see what dogs are what. we can only run together in trials thats the only way to do this so who cares if i think arha is the way to go and you think akc midwest gundogs are the way to go because i am sure someone thinks ubgf ukc pkc and so on believe what they believe. And that does not make them wrong just different.

[johns03272008]

I am floored that you akc mid west gundog people would talk bad about little pack rules or what kind of none hunting dogs we own or have. I thought you all were above this wow was i fooled. what about run what you like and do not talk about other organizations. AKC is owned by a peda organization now so how long do you think they will allow you to pursue game just asking. The reason we only run for a hour in little pack is because of the number of entries that we recieve at our hunts. How many dogs were at wurtlands large pack trial. Did they have 50 total dogs. And when you make a field champion in akc you are only beating dogs in your class right. 15 dogs do not have to run against 15 females right. So if you end up with a 100 dogs you may have 25 a class so you only had to be better then 25 dogs right. I am just saying if you do not what a fellow like me saying negative things about your organization should you not practice what you preach. We all have a opinions like you all say run what you feed.I can probley not win in your format though i have. And maybe you have won in ours. But to really see what dogs are what. we can only run together in trials thats the only way to do this so who cares if i think arha is the way to go and you think akc midwest gundogs are the way to go because i am sure someone thinks ubgf ukc pkc and so on believe what they believe. And that does not make them wrong just different.

Midwest- 25 dogs with a 1st = 25 points. (Needs 3 wins and points to finish)

ARHA- 25 dogs with a 1st= 40 points. (Needs 1 win and points to finish)

Which one do you think is harder to finish out a dog?????

I am not bashing arha as I have said in previous posts I have no problem with any format I just choose 1 over the others but there is no comparison to how difficult it is to finish in the midwest
I have been to arha clubs where not enough dogs have shown up to even be able to hold the hunt and I have been to midwest clubs where only 6 dogs have shown up but guess what that means only 6 points not 40 points also I have been to a midwest club that had to go into a 2nd because we had so many dogs!! So like before each is their own but don't compare a Ford Tempo to a Chevy Corvette!!

[toldyouso]

I would love to run my tempo against your corvetts . Lets see in order to make a grand field champion you need 6 wins and a 100 points and you may end up under many many different judges. Where in your format you could get all your wins under the same judges.right or wrong. At our big five hunts and or state hunts are entries draf your numbers by far. I do not run alot of club hunts just like i am sure you do not run alot of qualifiers.

[Bunnyblaster]

Come on guys this is my last word on this ,we all know the meaning here .Continuously tally hoing or calling a dog or dogs to a jumped rabbit is B.s. and you know it .It can and will deteriorate a dog after a while (their hunt or desire )I understand that they have a large amount of dogs to see and they need rabbits ran to observe the hounds but this is not acceptable to me .This takes away from the most important quality in a hound in my opinion ,running the line ,check power ,I know these are all judgeable and should be but are they really looking for and counting all these qualities or just stringing it out to see which one is in better shape after 4 or 5 hours .Just on the fence about it I dont like 8 or 9 dogs down either .I like 4 or 5 down then you can really see waht is happening .Oh well none are perfect for everyone ,I am gonna go to a few and have fun

I will say that I agree with what you're saying if my dogs have to have a rabbit jumped for them but I'll never see the harm in hunting with them when and where I can.

And to put a little different spin on it how is tally ho-ing a dog any different than it honoring another dog that has started/jumped it's own rabbit?? Is it better because is was a bark that got them there instead of my voice?? You see it doesn't matter if it's a person or another dog that is always doing the jumping..........a lazy hunter is going to be a lazy hunter. IMO it's just as easy to ruin the hunt in a hound by running them with another dog that gets most of the jumps. They learn to wait for the other dogs to jump one and then join in. I won't own a dog like that......no different than you.

I realize you seem to be talking more about trials than just me going out and hunting with my dogs but same as everything else, in moderation I don't see where it's an issue. It's the ones that can't or won't do it for themselves that bother me.......regardless of why or how they got there.

JMO

[Greg Wells]

In my opinion a dog either has the desire to hunt or it doesn't. When I run or hunt dogs outside of the trials, I let them hunt on thier own & the good ones usually find a rabbit pretty quick. I've had several that didn't have enough desire & hunt for me & they were culled. We've put our hound in close to 20 Mid-West trials this year & her hunt is still as strong as ever. Again, the reason judges in the Mid-West let the handlers help jump rabbits is because of the amount of time it takes to finish a trial. They will still be able to tell which hounds are hunting or not. And yes, a hound must be in incredible shape to have a chance of winning a trial. Stamina is very important because the judges can only judge what they see & the best judge out there might see 60% of the actual running if the conditions are good enough for the hounds to pound. It takes a lot of time & work to get even the most talented hounds ready to win or place in a Mid-West trial. That's why you see a lot of guys that have success, that trial & focus on only one dog during a trial year. A hound has to be pretty fast & competitive, but also accurate & close in the check to place in the Mid-West; this is very hard to maintain in any hound unless they are prepared right.

[johns03272008]

I would love to run my tempo against your corvetts . Lets see in order to make a grand field champion you need 6 wins and a 100 points and you may end up under many many different judges. Where in your format you could get all your wins under the same judges.right or wrong. At our big five hunts and or state hunts are entries draf your numbers by far. I do not run alot of club hunts just like i am sure you do not run alot of qualifiers.

Im not here for a wiener measuring contest im just stating the facts on points and im sorry a grrch has no effect on me as far as meaning as I have seen 2 dogs in many champion classes at clubs but I have also seen many in the champion class but it just don't mean anything to me for that title sorry also a clean running lock on dog will not win in little pack cause you need checks for points like I said im only stating some facts and like I SAID BEFORE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ANY TYOE OF TRIAL OR FORMAT!! Also my tempo to vette was not about dogs it was about a specific format!! Also im sure if akc allowed grade dogs with half horse or coon hound then our numbers would go up!! Also you are beating a dead horse here cause it don't matter what is said I know what I like and what I don't!! Just my opinion!!

[RABBITHUNTER22]

There are clean running lock on dogs that champion in little pack. Just because dogs are ran in little pack doesn't mean they are ruff