politics of our sport that need to be addressed

[Greg Wells]

That's right guys, the harder it is to find game, the more hunt or lack of hunt in a hound will stand out. Sometimes even after a good, hard run, the judges may still not agree completely & need another rabbit. Hounds may be close on score in the judges' minds & if one hound hunts harder than the other in between jumps,it can be the deciding factor on which hound moves on to the next round or even decide the winner in some cases as Jamie mentioned.

[eddywilliams]

Ok thanks guys .I dont have to worry about mine hunting the last Akc trial he had 5 solo jumps in 2 rounds with 3 in the winners pack and I was told they didnt count which is why I havent been back to one because that is rediculous to me.

[Lance]

Ok thanks guys .I dont have to worry about mine hunting the last Akc trial he had 5 solo jumps in 2 rounds with 3 in the winners pack and I was told they didnt count which is why I havent been back to one because that is rediculous to me.

Did he say why they didn't count????? Has to be more to this than "They didn't count". And if it's true your dog had those jumps and there is a judge that doesn't give a hound credit for jumping a rabbit..then please post his name....

[eddywilliams]

Not posting any names and starting any B.S. just simply stating it seems to me in the trials I have been in all they were really looking for in the end was the hound best conditioned after 2 long rounds then a winners pack of 4.5 hours which also seemed a bit overkill to me .You have to jump the rabbit before you can run it in my eyes and my dogs dont have to be walked and called to come run a bunny after EVERYONE HAS JUMPED ONE .I am on the fence on these issues .I dont have time to run hounds 40 hours a week or have an enclosure to dump them in and leave to condition them .Mine is all hands on .So I am at some what of a disadvantage but I can deal with that .

[J Lawhorn]

My opinion, midwest is the best format that i have ran.It may not always promote the best jump dog,but after the rabbit is up thats where the real dog ability comes through.I think they bring dogs back that are the glue th the track and they wheen out the ones that are messing up the race.I like a fast clean check dog and this i believe is the format for me.I am a hands on guy myself,but i believe if i run my hounds 15 -20 hours a week or couple hours everynight after work ,2 weeks before a midwest trial they are bred up good enough to compete.I run dogs year around anyway,so they will be ready.The only thing for me thats hard is the traveling with a wife that works and a little one.When I believe my derby dog is ready for the big time I will try my hardest to be their.Merry Christmas to all and hopefully I will be at the midwest runoff. Looking forward to it!

[old blood beagles]

Eddie, I am hands on too and I do think that the AKC promotes the best running hound of any format. I do think that the judges give credit on hunting and jumping a bunny but that is only a part of a complete rabbit hound. I like the longer pack times "2 hours plus" and the longer winners pack "3 hours plus" because it gives the judges a real good look at which hound is doing the most work. I don't have alot of time myself and I don't have an enclosure either but any chance I get I am running hounds. I put at least 20 hours a week on them and sometimes that goes up to 40 hours plus depending if I can get off work. I have heard great things about your Tuna hound and if you have him in shape to run, I think he would do great.

J Lawhorn, I hope to see you at the runoff as it should be a great trial. I hope that Glory continues to run like she has been because if she does the points leaders are in for a very hard day.

Duane

[eddywilliams]

Old Blood thanks for your input and thanks for your compliment on my dog .He has been in 3 Akc trials and made the winners pack all 3times with a 3rd or 4th place win id have to double check .He wasnt ran in right except for one trial .I have some other younger dogs we are considering running and giving it a shot with out huge expectations and we are not gonna whine if we get picked up .Im just voicing my opinion which I know it doesnt mean a lot til I GET SEVERAL UNDER MY BELT.I DONT LIKE CALLING A DOG THAT IS HUNTING TO COME RUN THE RABBIT I JUMPED .All in all I enjoyed the trials

[Greg Wells]

I understand where you are coming from as a hunter, but the more trials you see ran, I'll think you'll understand why it is important to get each pack after a rabbit as soon as possible due the time it takes to finish a class of hounds. If your hound hunts hard, judges will take note; as long as they just don't stand around and walk the paths, they will be okay. Handlers are allowed to work thier hounds just like a hunting situation. The reason dogs are taught what "tally-ho" means & the handler or handlers are instructed by the judges to yell "tally-ho" when a rabbit is seen loud enough for all the dogs to hear is to get the pack together as soon as possible on the same rabbit; judges cannot judge the pack until all of the hounds are running the same rabbit or have had adequate time to hark to the pack.

[mybeagles]

When I judge I prefer to keep the handlers together and let the dogs work. I do watch closely for hunt, and credit a hound that hunts exceptionally hard. On the other hand, because a hound jumps 4 or 5 rabbits doesn't mean he wins the trial like other associations. It's also important what they do after they jump one. Can they run it, or are they dominated by their pack mates. Like it was stated, sometimes the handlers have to help out with getting a rabbit jumped so you dont have to judge the dogs by how well they handled and send the rest home The idea is to evaluate hounds running a rabbit.

The reason I think the AKC SPO is the best format is because of the focus on the overall dog. EVERYTHING is evaluated, not just jump, strike, check. I don't have to wait 3 minutes to determine if a dog is being disruptive to the pack. I CAN score a dog for running check free for 30 minutes. I don't have to wait 15 seconds to give a dog credit for a check. Those rules to me have nothing to do with promoting a hunting dog. I will never understand how a rough dog that creates checks is scored higher than a dog than runs smoothly.... Does any rabbit hunter want a dog creating checks???

Mybeagles

[johns03272008]

When I judge I prefer to keep the handlers together and let the dogs work. I do watch closely for hunt, and credit a hound that hunts exceptionally hard. On the other hand, because a hound jumps 4 or 5 rabbits doesn't mean he wins the trial like other associations. It's also important what they do after they jump one. Can they run it, or are they dominated by their pack mates. Like it was stated, sometimes the handlers have to help out with getting a rabbit jumped so you dont have to judge the dogs by how well they handled and send the rest home The idea is to evaluate hounds running a rabbit.

The reason I think the AKC SPO is the best format is because of the focus on the overall dog. EVERYTHING is evaluated, not just jump, strike, check. I don't have to wait 3 minutes to determine if a dog is being disruptive to the pack. I CAN score a dog for running check free for 30 minutes. I don't have to wait 15 seconds to give a dog credit for a check. Those rules to me have nothing to do with promoting a hunting dog. I will never understand how a rough dog that creates checks is scored higher than a dog than runs smoothly.... Does any rabbit hunter want a dog creating checks???

Mybeagles

I agree with you 100% I don't understand why you would want to promote a dog that creates checks!! I like a smooth running check free hound! Do I have one NO but I try to keep the best line dog I can while having the speed to run the front!! I would rather run for 4 hrs and lose because a judge saw alot then to lose to a stupid hunting and handleing that to me is the lamest thing I have ever heard! I have run little pack and still will support local clubs in them but when you get beat a place by a coin flip that can really burn your a$$ or with 1 min left in the hour there has been 0 running and then all of the sudden a dog strikes in and gets 10 points and wins!! Is that the bst dog because it found a rabbit?? Not in my opinion yes yu have to jump them to run them but you have to be able to run them after you jump them!! I don't have any major problems with any format I just choose to run my hounds in the Midwest as I feel they promote the best Gundog and overall dog!! JMHO

[J Lawhorn]

Me and a buddy was talking a bit about this topic and midwest and he made a good point. AKC midwest is called AKC midwest gundog for a reason.The word Gundog in their is for a meaning.I know when i hunt with my dogs i like them to hunt closer and work with me.If i shoot a rabbit and miss;i like my dogs to be right their,either when i call or they hear the gun fire.When you hunt with them you are kicking brush trying to find game;at least i do.Thats why midwest to me is relaxing and just like hunting.Old Blood looking forward to the derby runoff,but not sure who glory is.I have a young male Top Fuel Chester (Reggie xViagra).

[old blood beagles]

Lawhorn, Glory is my female that I run in the 15 inch female class (pic of her and me 2nd place at central Ky a few weeks ago). She is a hard hitting 13 3/4 inch hound. Rita is my 12 1/2 inch female that I will be running in the derby. She is also a hard hitting hound.
I believe that the AKC Mid-West is the best format for promoting a hunting hound. I also believe that the members of the mid west are some of the best people that I have ever known. This topic got started about the politics of trials and formats (esp. AKC) and I hope that it has not turned anyone away from this great sport or our format. I believe in fair trials and fair judges and I am one that will tell a judge if I think he is wrong and I am also one that will shake their hands and say job well done. At every trial that I have attended I asked the judge why I was picked up, why I did not make the winners pack or why I placed at a certain spot and everyone but one judge has told me the reasons. I did not ask them to start trouble or even to disagree with their calls but to better understand the judges reasons. I have only had one bad day at a trial and I told the judge and the FTS of that club of how I felt. I don't think that it will ever happen again and if it does then I will tell them again. I think what started all of this topic is a couple of people that had a bad day at a trial or they have hounds that can not compete at the high level that the Mid-West promotes.

The runoff should be a great trial and I will be there to have fun with alot of old friends and maybe even make a few more.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

akc promotes gundogs,when gun hunters are hunting they dont turn their dogs lose and set on the tailgate,they walk along with their hounds lookin 4 a rabbit,kicking brush an working hounds,also communicating 2 hounds by calling them 2 a tallyhoe.this is also the reason akc shoots over the hounds,because they are gun dogs. personally i would prefer 2 run hounds for as long as it takes versus a set time limit on a hunt,my opinion - i would take 4 hours of runnin hounds anyday over 1 or 2hrs. i enjoy runnin hounds,so 4 me the longer the better,thats the whole reason why im there - 2 run dogs.

[J Lawhorn]

Thats cool Oldblood;thought you had me mistaken for somebody else;didnt know Glory was your dog.Good luck at the runoff.

[eddywilliams]

Thats nice Lamaar you might have to or need to walk yours and kick brush but I dont ,and dont prefer to jump a rabbit for a dog either intentionally .I have sicked a dog on one I have jumped sure but after while a good hunting dog might get a lil ruined by this procedure .