politics of our sport that need to be addressed

[Ron Conroe]

[johns03272008]

There are clean running lock on dogs that champion in little pack. Just because dogs are ran in little pack doesn't mean they are ruff

Never once did I state there are no clean running hounds in little pack as I have seen many run in little pack but on the other hand I have seen some that need a radio on their collar playing
"If I only had a brain" now that being said!! If you have to have a 11 sec or 15 sec breakdown" sorry don't know exact time" in order to have a check how does a clean running hound that runs smooth with only quick checks that he picks up himself win?? No breakdowns for 1hr how does a hound like that win?? It can't and wont!! Also im not stating little pack dogs are junk because I have seen som good dogs in fact great dogs in little pack before anyone else deciedes to reword my words!! Im not sure how this went from supposed cheating to running mutts and which format is better!! Each person has their own format that they like and that their hounds excel, just because you can win in every format and your dog doesn't do so well in a format don't mean there is cheating going on!! Jmho

[RABBITHUNTER22]

I'm not rewording your words. Not every rabbit race is going to go without break downs. I have judged several dogs that run clean and smooth win.

[ohlinger]

I'm not rewording your words. Not every rabbit race is going to go without break downs. I have judged several dogs that run clean and smooth win.

How did they win ? 15 second checks ?? Most of the little pack trials i've been to, you would've thought the dogs were running down wind from a forest fire in a 100 mile an hour wind storm...LOL now there is a reason that little pack is known to be fast and rough....lol saying you have seen a clean dog win in little pack so not all dogs that win are rough is like putting a small spec of sugar in spicy chilli soup to sweeten it up alil....that is called a metaphor. LOL. The more i say the more people will disect every syllable of my sentences so i will stop here for now....there are good dogs in every format..problem i see with little pack is those bad dogs are not discredited for being "bad dogs" and screwing up the track, they can screw it up as much as they want, and even get rewarded for it in recovering a check that they created. Bad deal there...that does not promote a better gun dog it promotes an idiot. The day i heard that guy say "my dog creates checks just so he can pick them back up" and be proud of himself for claiming to own a dog that does that was a big ol confirmation that some people actualy breed hounds to fit a field trial format over what performs best in the field... Yes this post of off topic but still worthy of discussing...

[RABBITHUNTER22]

What I'm saying is if you have 3 or 4 fast ruff running dogs that are over running the track then you have one clean running dog keeping the track going getting checks. I'll agree there are good and bad dogs in every format.

[sanfordssj]

What I'm saying is if you have 3 or 4 fast ruff running dogs that are over running the track then you have one clean running dog keeping the track going getting checks. I'll agree there are good and bad dogs in every format.

I will add to this:

Dog A, B, and C are running 100mph and over run the turn creating a check (15 sec) while dog D steady comes up from behind and never misses a beat and blows right through the "check area" that A, B, and C, created.....Check to dog D! Thats how a clean dog wins with a judge who knows how to score it in LP.

[mybeagles]

OR, dog A, B, and C run 100mph off the track and just keep going, never returning to point of loss and strike another track 250 yards away. Maybe original rabbit, maybe not....who knows at that point. Handler hollers out, that was my dog with the check Thats how a rough dog gets rewarded for complete foolishness.

On the other hand I have seen some real nice hounds in Progressive pack.

I think we all migrate toward the format that suits our style of dogs the best. My objective is never to bash any association. I just think everyone gets protective of the association they run in so they can the keep the legitamacy of their titles and accomplishments intact. I always watch the dogs that are successful in multiple formats, they must be good by anyones standard

Mybeagles

[cpuckett]

the rules say all dogs have to break down for 15 seconds,the one that finds the line at or after that is the dog that get's scored,could be the one that caused the race to fall apart,but if he finds it then by the rules he should be scored,i don't like a dog that screws things up either,but that's why there are different format's so that every houndsman might find something that soots them,if a judge does it by the rules and hound a,b,and c break down over runnin the track and hound d comes right through the middle of them never missin a beat,then there is no breakdown "CHECK" so no dog get's scored,i know it stinks but that's the rules,and if were not gonna judge by the rules then we don,t need to judge at all....

[RABBITHUNTER22]

OR, dog A, B, and C run 100mph off the track and just keep going, never returning to point of loss and strike another track 250 yards away. Maybe original rabbit, maybe not....who knows at that point. Handler hollers out, that was my dog with the check Thats how a rough dog gets rewarded for complete foolishness.

Mybeagles

I have never seen that happen

[Kenny VanHoose]

You are not aloud to claim your checks to the judge in LP.

[RABBITHUNTER22]

1.    Definition: A check occurs when it is evident that the hounds in pursuit of the rabbit have lost it for 15 seconds, or more. The hounds do not have to shut up barking for 15 seconds in the check area for it to be considered a check, only lose it to where they cannot make forward progress with the rabbit for 15 seconds. A hound must claim the check by giving mouth and making forward progress.

a.       If a hound catches the rabbit during the open check time, the hound shall be awarded 25 check points. If a hound catches the rabbit when the check time is not open, the judge shall call dead track and no check points shall be awarded.       

2.    Any hound that pulls other hounds away from the check area shall receive minus 10 points. Example: Hounds A, B, and C are searching the area where the rabbit was lost for more than 15 seconds. Hound D is several yards away from the check area and is barking, one, or more of the hounds (A, B, and C), hark in on Hound D and the rabbit is not produced. Hound D receives a minus 10 points.

3.    The judge shall award 25 points for a check.

4.    The scoring of checks shall continue as long as the rabbit is running.

5.    If the judge determines that the rabbit is holed up, or that the hounds have lost the rabbit and are unable to get it started again, he/she shall announce that the track is dead and ask the handlers to move their hounds to another area.

[sanfordssj]

OR, dog A, B, and C run 100mph off the track and just keep going, never returning to point of loss and strike another track 250 yards away. Maybe original rabbit, maybe not....who knows at that point. Handler hollers out, that was my dog with the check Thats how a rough dog gets rewarded for complete foolishness.

Mybeagles

Thats a foolish handler to think a judge is going to score it....unless asked by the judge handlers have NO say in anything in LP. and at 250 yards you better hope your dog isn't getting scratched (deer runners).

[ohlinger]

hahaha if the judge is not going to listen to the handler then why do the handlers stand out there the entire cast, and scream at the judges "check orange collar dog judge" You get that check on yellow judge" ? etc....I know we have all been in on casts where some good ol boy who knows it all is giving the judge a hard time and asking about every check, and trying to figure out what the judge is yelling back at him while he's chasing dogs 150 yards away and out of wind. I hate people yelling it's makes me edgy lol that is one of the most uncomfortable things someone does in a lttle pack cast for me, and i'm sure the judge loves it as well.

In reguards to the dog's a,b,c and being rough, and dog d coming up and saving the day, if dog d is 15 seconds behind on the track long enough to give a,b,c a chance to break down and get put in a check then he prbly should'nt be running with dogs a,b,c in the first place because a,b,c and are prbly gonna pull back to D who is 15 seconds behind on the track....I don't think i've ever seen a situation happen like someone just stated usualy those type of sutuations are more disastorous than beneficial to any dog in the pack rough or clean, I do understand the concept of what you're trying to say. sounds to me like this is turning into a progressive pack vs. little pack debate LOL. Show me the dogs that can win in both formats b/c those are the ones i want, and they are out there.

[Bunnyblaster]

OR, dog A, B, and C run 100mph off the track and just keep going, never returning to point of loss and strike another track 250 yards away. Maybe original rabbit, maybe not....who knows at that point. Handler hollers out, that was my dog with the check Thats how a rough dog gets rewarded for complete foolishness.

Mybeagles

Thats a foolish handler to think a judge is going to score it....unless asked by the judge handlers have NO say in anything in LP. and at 250 yards you better hope your dog isn't getting scratched (deer runners).

Ok fine 250yds is a little over the top. But what about 50yds out?? 60? 70? How far is too far? I'm into a dog reaching when need be but not starting out there. Start at the point of loss and work your way out, not over run the end and then hit that line or possibly another 60 yards out. If a dog gets the "check" 50 yards away from the loss in less than 30 seconds from when they lost it then IMO that dog didn't start at the point of loss or even anywhere close to it for that matter. Now on the other hand I'm not into a dog that can't seem to move out of a check either. I had one once that would bark the snot out of that check area and take forever and a day to take the track out of it because he refused to reach a little...........he no longer lives at my house.

Depending on the rabbits and the conditions that day the dogs may have to reach a little but I personally do not like a dog that always starts way out there because they're not under control. If that rabbit took a hard right then they're screwed....unless of course your willing to tally ho your dogs to the track ............but we've already had that discussion on this thread.

[ohlinger]

LOl now thas funny right there! some people just take it too serious, I've split tracks with a feller who claimed not to tally ho(ever) and his dog come a runnin just as quick as any of the rest..and no there is absolutely no difference to tallying hoing a dog on a rabbit vs. it honoring to another dog who already jumped and opened on one. I would figure people who claim not to tally ho are trying to teach a dog something it may not have been born with...