AKC

[Kenny VanHoose]

yall are funny !

[S.R.Patch]

I have a question for the ones that say's that akc should step up and do what is right. Are you going to continue to register your dogs with akc ? The reason i ask is because normally when a person does you wrong you don't have any more dealings with them. Is a organization any different ?

Salz,
If you quit every time something goes astray, you won't be involved in much. When you join an organization with your hounds that has as it's principles,

AKC's Core Values:
* We love purebred dogs
* We are committed to advancing the sport of the purebred dog
* We are dedicated to maintaining the integrity of our Registry
* We protect the health and well-being of all dogs
* We cherish dogs as companions
* We are committed to the interests of dog owners
* We uphold high standards for the administration and operation of the AKC
* We recognize the critical importance of our clubs and volunteers

and you have $1000's of dollars and a belief invested in what established this organization, would you be remiss in not taking action to see that those values are upheld?
If we preach from the pulpit but do not uphold the Ten Commandments, we're still doing ok, aren't we? Do we leave the Church, get rid of the preacher or try to correct his ways? At some point if everyone quits, you end up with no where to run.

[DJC]

If the AKC took action not everyone would be happy with whatever they decided was the appropriate punishment, but atleast they would show that they care. Now they set the standard that they would tolerate this type of behavior and no punishment would be handed down. Although this may not encourage this same type of thing from happening, AKC had oppurtunity to set a standard that this behavior would not be tolerated. I agree you can't fix what has occurred, but you could send a letter to the dog's owners that are effected so they are aware of what has occurred and a punishment shoud be handed down to the guilty party probably a fine and a set number of years before they could register/own an AKC dog. What happens in the regular world if you are caught forging someone elses name on legal documents?

[Tsa la gi]

DJC,
Thanks for the comment.There are a lot of us have the same feeling.

Van ur the one that`s funny try`in to fit in.

[cojax]

Vanhoose do you have akc dogs.....if so why.....and what is so funny.....your dogs probably arent what the paper says either....still laughing???? YOU PAID MONEY FOR THAT MY FRIEND thanks cojax

[Bev]

What happens in the regular world if you are caught forging someone elses name on legal documents?

If nobody catches you or prosecutes you within 2 years of the crime, you walk. That's the statute of limitations on forgery. At this point (13 years later) if Swampman wanted to prosecute the guy with a civil suit, he would probably lose based on the amount of time that has passed.

Not saying I agree with it, just that it is what it is.

[DJC]

Actually each state has it's only "rules" regarding statute of limitations on a crime and even that can vary depending on the seriousness of the crime. In some cases the Statute of Limitaions does not begin until the crime is discovered. Although the crime was committed 13 years ago it wasn't discovered 13 years ago.

Regardless, It's funny we all are in agreement someone broke the rules but some people don't think anything should be done about it. It appears a certain number of posts are more driven by grudges or dislike against other board members then the obvious facts in the case.

[Tsa la gi]

Bev,
You have some very good points and I agree with some of them but it still does not excuse or make it right. Also every one is right this may never be fixed.

[Kenny VanHoose]

Yeah cojax I have all AKC dogs, dont have any grade dogs. But you all carry on like you made some big revalation, like this is the first time this has happened . Well I'm sure this goes on with ALL breeds in ALL registries ! To hear you all carry on like this is the first time this has happened is funny. NO one has said that AKC should do nothing and NO one has said this is not wrong but not much has been said about the guy that done the forgery. Who is he ? Where is he ? Why dont you confront him ? To me that would be the place to start.

[Salzer mtn]

I have a question for the ones that say's that akc should step up and do what is right. Are you going to continue to register your dogs with akc ? The reason i ask is because normally when a person does you wrong you don't have any more dealings with them. Is a organization any different ?

Salz,
If you quit every time something goes astray, you won't be involved in much.

*

and you have $1000's of dollars and a belief invested in what established this organization, would you be remiss in not taking action to see that those values are upheld?
If we preach from the pulpit but do not uphold the Ten Commandments, we're still doing ok, aren't we? Do we leave the Church, get rid of the preacher or try to correct his ways? At some point if everyone quits, you end up with no where to run.[/quote]
IMO a organization is in the same catagory as a individual. There has been several times i have cut fellowship with individuals and organizations because i couldn't go along with the way thay conducted themselves. I could get on here and air out my dirty laundry but i have learned that unless it touches someone elses flesh they just don't care. If you have high standards then sometimes you will have to stand alone, and that is not running away. Again if i felt that akc should take a stand on their own by-laws and would not, i would just simply not do business with them any more. You will be the one that pays the price, but high standards comes with a price.

[mobeagle]

Yeah cojax I have all AKC dogs, dont have any grade dogs. But you all carry on like you made some big revalation, like this is the first time this has happened . Well I'm sure this goes on with ALL breeds in ALL registries ! To hear you all carry on like this is the first time this has happened is funny. NO one has said that AKC should do nothing and NO one has said this is not wrong but not much has been said about the guy that done the forgery. Who is he ? Where is he ? Why dont you confront him ? To me that would be the place to start.

And you claim no hears Bev? Have you read any of this. This whole thing was about the man who forged the letter. All that was being asked was for him to be banned not try and rework a 1000 set of dog papers. A very simple situation with clear evidence has turned radical because the AKC has chosen to do NOTHING. I believe I read somewhere on this thread where he had contacted the guy responsible and spoke to him. What else do you want him to do? Go beat him up and end up in jail for assault? Threaten him? What good can he really do by confronting the guy? He's obviously a crook and doesnt care. You ever tried reasoning somemone who lives by no moral code?

If an armed robber breaks into your place are you going to go to his house and confront him or call the police. If you call the police dont you expect them to do their job? In this instance the AKC is the police. They've had the evidence they need hand delivered to them so there isnt much work for them to do.

[wireman252]

I think that this sucks about the false signature and also that Akc decides they will not do anything about it. I think this is wrong what has happened, and I'm certain it will happen again in the future. People can and will do crooked things.

If I'm not mistaken , the owner of the forged name, talked to the man that forged his name. Did this man admit to doing so.If so is there any proof to give to Akc ,if this man won't make a written statement to Akc about his dishonesty. I'm guessing the guy that had his name forged has contacted and told Akc it wasn't his signature. I'm also guessing that was the only "evidence" they had to go on. One man's word. Is there any way to get this man to fess up or for the man that had his name forged to show proof of his signature and compare it to the forged signature?

I'm guessing (unfortunately) that in Akc's thinking ,this is a matter of "he said / she said". I would guess they feel , that they have no other evidence. Hence the excuse of : (13 years has gone by and we can't do any thing about it.).

This sure is a mess ,for you guys involved with this line . I hope some kind of peace of mind can be made of it. Justice would even be better.If only this man would come forward and clear this up by admitting his wrong doing.

[Kenny VanHoose]

Oh now this guy that forged a signature is an armed robber? lol...................out.............you should go run your dogs

[Salzer mtn]

Before i would set and worry over a mess like this i would say the heck with it, just to get it off my mind. Stress like this is what leads to heart attacks. AKC has proved over and over that their real goal is to make money, so why act surpriced about all of this. IMO a successful breeder don't even need his dogs to be registered. Most rabbit hunters i know discard the papers anyway if they have reg. dogs. If you can't live with AKC go to UKC or one of the other ones.

[Bev]

Yeah cojax I have all AKC dogs, dont have any grade dogs. But you all carry on like you made some big revalation, like this is the first time this has happened . Well I'm sure this goes on with ALL breeds in ALL registries ! To hear you all carry on like this is the first time this has happened is funny. NO one has said that AKC should do nothing and NO one has said this is not wrong but not much has been said about the guy that done the forgery. Who is he ? Where is he ? Why dont you confront him ? To me that would be the place to start.

And you claim no hears Bev? Have you read any of this. This whole thing was about the man who forged the letter. All that was being asked was for him to be banned not try and rework a 1000 set of dog papers. A very simple situation with clear evidence has turned radical because the AKC has chosen to do NOTHING. I believe I read somewhere on this thread where he had contacted the guy responsible and spoke to him. What else do you want him to do? Go beat him up and end up in jail for assault? Threaten him? What good can he really do by confronting the guy? He's obviously a crook and doesnt care. You ever tried reasoning somemone who lives by no moral code?

If an armed robber breaks into your place are you going to go to his house and confront him or call the police. If you call the police dont you expect them to do their job? In this instance the AKC is the police. They've had the evidence they need hand delivered to them so there isnt much work for them to do.

Are you addressing me personally? If so, why are you railing on me? I'm not your stinkin' enemy, lol. Never once have I said anything about this situation being good - for either side, or that I've condoned any of it. If anything, I stated several times that I don't blame Swampman for trying. What I have done is present possible reasons why AKC decided not to take action, and suddenly I have no character or integrity. Things "turn radical" is because of wild conclusion-jumping like that.

You've worn this topic out on the message board, by repeating your stances and accusing people who don't echo your chants of being just as crooked as the guy for committed the forgery. What kind of kangaroo court is that? So now I'm wondering if you will all hold yourselves to the same standard you accuse others of not having. All of you here who have bitched the loudest because AKC won't do what Swampman wants them to do, ban the forger, willing to do the following?

- Contact AKC and tell them you are unhappy with their decision. (Be sure to demand a better reason than 13 years have gone by)
- Cease immediately registering any dogs with AKC until they reverse their decision.
- Do not attend or in any way support AKC field trials.
- Do not purchase or breed any more dogs even remotely related to the breeding in question.....ever again.

If you all are willing to do more than give lip service about this, I will set up another thread in which you can all post that you have personally contacted AKC, and that you will no longer be considered an AKC kennel, you will no longer be buying or selling AKC dogs, and you can sign your name to it. I'll even sticky the thread so people will know who not to contact if they are in the market for an AKC dog. Because God knows we don't want any time for this radical thread to blow over, and all you who have condemned AKC today, start doing business with them again tomorrow. There's no statute of limitations on character and integrity, right?

So who will be first?