politics of our sport that need to be addressed

[Ohiohntr]

Alright Chapko....obviously you have not read any of the responses or your just fail to understand because myself, Greg Wells, Teddy Hall, Jeff Martin, and others have explained it to a T. I am going to try ONE MORE TIME to explain this with fewer words and in CAPITAL LETTERS since you like to use them, sorry to everyone else...I will give you some replacement asprin at the next trial.

1. AKC DOES NOT PICK THE JUDGES NOR WILL THEY EVER PICK THE JUDGES....THEY PUT THAT RESPONSIBILITY ON THE FTS AND THE CLUB MEMBERS!!! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY THEN CALL AKC, WE DO NOT SET THE RULES!!! I AM GUESSING THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MAN POWER, KNOWLEDGE, OR RESOURCES TO DO THIS. THE LADY WITHIN AKC YOU WILL WANT TO TALK TO IS LISA KING....SHE IS MRS. BEAGLE AND WILL SET YOU STRAIGHT.

2. MANY OF THE SAME JUDGES ARE USED BECAUSE THEY ARE RELIABLE, HONEST, PHYSICALLY ABLE, PULL GREAT NUMBERS, AND ARE WILLING TO DRIVE TO THE TRIALS AND LOSE MONEY DOING IT. THEY ARE SOMETIMES ON THE SAME CLASSES TIME AFTER TIME BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THEM TO DRIVE HRS UPON HRS TO A TRIAL AND NOT RUN THEIR OWN DOGS....THUS THEY JUDGE THE CLASSES IN WHICH THEY DO NOT OWN A DOG.

3. SAYING CLUBS AND FTS'S ARE PICKING JUDGES THAT FIT THE STYLE OF DOG THEY RUN IS STUPID AND SHOWS IGNORANCE (NOT KNOWING) ON YOUR PART....SHOW ME SOME STATISTICS, NUMBERS TELL THE TRUTH, AND I WILL TELL YOU I'M WRONG. I WILL SAY WE TRY TO USE SPO MIDWEST AND LARGE PACK JUDGES FOR MIDWEST TRIALS, BUT NOT ALWAYS...SO I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THE JUDGES ARE PICKED TO JUDGE "OUR STYLE" OF DOGS....I THINK...BUT THAT WOULD BE A STRETCH AND I DOUBT THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE INSINUATING.

4. OF COURSE THEN THERE IS YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT BEING GUILTY ABOUT SOMETHING, SOMEHOW, BY TRYING TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I BELIEVE EVERYONE IS TRYING TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND HELP YOU UNDERSTAND (NOT SURE WHY OTHER THAN PURE BOREDUM) BUT APPARENTLY YOU ARE NOT READING THE ANSWERS OR YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THE ANSWERS....ONE MORE TIME.....CALL AKC AND ASK THEM TO START SELECTING THE JUDGES...I CAN HEAR LISA'S LAUGHTER FROM HERE. I WOULD LOVE IT....LESS WORK FOR ME, BUT SURE DON'T ASK ME TO SCRAMBLE AROUND TRYING TO FIND REPLACEMENTS, BREAK UP FIGHTS, OR QUESTION ME ABOUT LOW ATTENDANCE....IT REALLY WOULDN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE ON HERE BITCHIN CAUSE YOU HAD TO RUN UNDER A KNOWN UBGF JUDGE AT A MIDWEST TRIAL....AKC ONLY RECOGNIZES UBGF, SP, SPO, B, GDB, AND LP (not associations) BUT ALL LICENCED JUDGES CAN JUDGE ALL OF THEM...HECK YOU MIGHT HAVE WEINER DOG JUDGE JUDING A LARGE PACK TRIAL...WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT...THEY WOULD BE WAITING FOR A PACK OF 50 BIG MALES TO GO TO GROUND.

5. AS FAR AS KEEPING ON TRACK...YOU CAN BLAME ITOLDYOUSO FOR THAT....BUT WHAT I SEE HERE ARE TWO GROWN MEN WITH A HISTORY OF FIGHTING AND BICKERING AT AKC TRIALS SITTING AROUND WONDERING WHY CLUBS (AND AKC) DO NOT CATER TO THEM OR THEIR DOGS. I STAND BEHIND MY STATEMENT THAT IF YOU HAD TO BE ESCOURTED FROM THE FIELD, YOU DO NOT BELONG AT A FIELD TRIAL, AND IF I WAS TONY I WOULD HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT ON YOU THAT DAY....THE SAME WITH MR. MILLER...NO QUESTIONS ASKED....THAT IS JUST SILLY AND NOT NEEDED.

I think I have covered everything you asked about, only because I care....lol...NOW YOU HAVE GONE AND PISSED ABSHIRE OFF...LOOK OUT

[chapkosbeagles]

MAPLE MAYBE THAT STATE MENT WAS A LITTLE HARSH SORRY ABOUT THAT,BUT THESE GUYS GET ON HERE AND SLAM ME WHEN THIS ISENT EVEN ABOUT ME. THEY SIT BACK AND JUDGE ME LIKE I AM ONE OF THERE HOUNDS OR LIKE THEY ARE GOD THEM SELF. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME COMPEATING OR GETTING SCREW ONE TIME. DOSE EVERYONE HERE THAT ONE TIME THIS IS SIMPLY ABOUT THE POLITICES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

IMO THE ONES WHO TAKE OFFENCE TO THIS ARE THE ONE DOING THE BUDDY JUDGING AND PUSHING THE POLITICS

I JUST SAID THAT BECAUSE THE HUNTS USED TO BE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AND NOW THEY DONT DRAW THAT IN ALL 4 CLASSES THEY ARE GETTING SMALLER AND YOU DONT SEE THE YOUNGER GENERATION


SORRY AGAIN MAPLE THAT WAS A BAD STATEMENT

[Ohiohntr]

Pick up Chapko and itoldyouso.....handle the pack.

Reason....Backtracking, Blowing Holes in the ground, and Running over the end

Sorry...had to do it

[foxxy]

Pick up Chapko and itoldyouso.....handle the pack.

Reason....Backtracking, Blowing Holes in the ground, and Running over the end

Sorry...had to do it

lmfao that there is funny

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Ahh i aint mad. Sometimes theres is a imaginary line we all know as Adults that maybe we should stay away from. I Know Probaly 80% of the guys that posted on here and they are straight up Midwest Heads. Good Standup Judges And equally good men. Chaps my Friend i have already told ya this a few times but i will tell ya again. Do i think midwest is as Pure as the Virgin Mary? Let me think about it.-----------------------------------No i do not but i also fill it is the top shelf of the beagle world. Nothing and i do mean nothing is Fool Proof as a Format, I think the Judges you see are probaly the best of the best there is too offer at this time . I am starting to see some new Judges trickle in and should they get caught or suspected of Cheating to Finish There Buddies Hounds then at that time any Club worth its Salt, should nip em and report them to the Akc and have there Liscense Pulled.
On to Entries------- When i started Trialing midwest in 05 the numbers were at the same point anywhere from 30 to 50 per Class, it aint changed much look at the Records. Entries in my eyes are based upon population of game. If Clubs got rabbits people will show if not then probaly not going too. Why waste my time running my culls to walk all day for 2 or 3 rabbits i personally would rather be home, and i fill like i speak for most.
Have i ever been ask to leave or been escorted or Black Balled ? No but i have stayed at a Holiday Inn once, Granted it was a Express, But never the less. Do i fill like i have ever been Hoo-Dooed? Yes i do but once i approached a judge actually both of them and asked they explained and i understood Exactly where it happened and Why ,Shook there hand Thank Em loaded up and Came home. No Big Deal. I also think you are starting too touch that line we spoke of earlier.As stated earlier somewhere, maybe you got some badass hound i do think you probaly got some power. But so do i and probaly 500 other people in this format. Do not take Critisim so hard. If ya wanna win in the midwest ya better break out of your pack and your buddies and solo the living hell out of your hound,This is just advice Chaps From a Old man that wont be alive for ever.Hope it helps some insight.

[danny vansickle]

Just the other day i was talking to my wife about maybe hitting a few trials and maybe getting back into trialing now that my tattoo shopm is up and running well and i am ready to hire on a couple atrist to run the shop while i am gone................

but then i read this thread,well,just a few posts to be honest,but ehough to get my blood preasure up and make me say,why waste a bunch of hard earned money to trial a hound when even if the dog does well,you always have a group of people pointing fingers saying that his or her hound looked better that day and it all came down to buddy judging................

yeah,your right,i used to be one of them guys,i used to bitch and wine and moan and groan,but then i started trialing akc midwest,i know,you can say of course you liked it,your dog placed a lot there,well,the thing is,i ran other dogs other then bandit and they didnt all place,but i always fealt for the most part like i got a fair shake,win or loose......

i read in an earlier post that a guy said it seemed like in akc midwest it was always the same dogs placing all the time and a lot of times under the same judges..............

well,my honest opinion to that statement is this,in akc midwest,it takes a hell of a person to judge,not just anyone can do it physically,and the thing is,each judge likes a certain style of dog,some like a fast high flying front end dog,some are more concearned about control,but for the most part,i noticed they all seemed to judge by the akc standards.and when a club picked judges,a lot of times they would pick judges with opposing styles,for example,they would pair up a guy that likes a high flyer and a guy that likes a control hound that runs med to upper med,i think they did this so we the handlers could get a kick out of thenm when they get to arguing,lol......


but back to my point,dogs get hot,they get on a roll,weather its the time of the year,or what but they get on a roll and that is why you tend to see the same hounds placing a lot ,and as far as the point that was made that they place under the same judges,well,i think that is because most judges also trial dogs,,and they judge the classes that they dont trial in,so,what happens is this,a judge that runs biug females has a dog that is hittin hard and he is already goin to trials to run his female and he judge lets say big males a lot during that time,and he likes a med speed control dog,and there is a dog like that really hot at that time,and i mean clicking,well,that dog places a lot under this judge,not because the judge likes the dog,or the dogs owner,but because the dog runs the style the judge likes and is doing a good job,so that dog places under that jusdge lets say twice in two weeks,well,then thats when ya get the whiners saying,thats gotta be buddy judging,lol.


i dont know,maybe im right maybe i am wrong,but thats just my opinion,.ok,i am done rambling on,hopefully this made sense..................................................................

[TC]

I haven't Always Agreed With Danny!!! Who has But I will Say I Do this time!!! Good post Danny...bout sums it up....
I Was one of them Fellas Who kept thinkin i was gettin Cheated in the UBGF Lost My temper a time or Two and Blew up another time Insulted a judge and made a Fool out of myself... Yeah I know hard to believe LOL
it took a member of the club Filing a complaint with AKC against me (he was Right) I Got a Warning letter from AKC that i had been an Ass That was an Eye opener For sure But that is what it took For me to Realize What Was going on...I Wasnt being Cheated at all just wasnt Running the Right type of Dog for the Format!!!! Aint been back to the UBGF Since i Do have a couple that i think Would do well in that Format just Do not like Following Certain judges around the country..Now Some say this aint so and Some say it is but Over the years i have Seen it.. If you find a judge that Likes your Style of hound then thats Who your Going to Enter under.. just a Fact!! thats the way it is...Some interpret the Rules a little different than others..
it is the SAME rulebook in All the associations they just have Different interpretations of it..Is it Right? No but that is how it is...Win or lose the thing is if ya Aint havin Fun then WHY do it???

[swing]

Me and Tony have been to I think either three or four AKC trials, placed dogs in all of them and won 2 of the trials and I dont think the judges even knew our name, so I dont think we got buddy judged at all. I like AKC format better than any of them , just to far away for us to travel .

[toldyouso]

You know what kelly i have not even said anything in a couple days and you just will not let it go. Believe what you want i do not care but everything i said happened just talked to roger bibler and ron rummer this did happen when i was in it. If its changed since then GREAT i am happy for you. You can say what you want thats ok too because i am starting to understand that does not go both ways. Me being escorted from the field has never happened especially sean fetty. He could not get the job done. So we can end the conversation here and agree to disagree or we can continue to act like children. but i am done talking about it. You stay in the mid west and i will stay in arha. Hows that work for you.And jimmy i have always liked you but you also was not there by the way where was you. HA HA. Every guy this been here talking about this its a opinion big deal. Let it go. when you have people involved you have issues its that simply does it have to go to a level that people come to blows. I am to old for that but never will i not tell you whats on my mind thats just me. Like it your not. THE END

[Ohiohntr]

Frank....First, you asked a question to me after I was trying to answer Chapko's questions thinking I was Bryan about why I did not use you as a judge and invited me to share that reason on the internet, which I did (page 5). I have nothing to hide...why should I....you asked and obviously you somewhat knew the reason. Then you ask why don't I just quit as FTS....trust me I have tried over and over but nobody will step up and take over....So what am I to do, let the club fall flat? I simply want to run a quick, efficient, and honest trial so I choose to eliminate what I feel could be potential headaches for me along the way and try to make choices to improve attendance and good times.

Secondly...I find debating fun, if you can't tell....I have no harshness towards anyone. Mybeagles and I have gone around and around over the "style" of Midwest hounds and after meeting face to face in AR we have agreed that we were mainly arguing about the same thing and buried the hatchet. Written text is sometimes hard to put into context and can be mistaken or overstated. I do stand behind everything and I actually feel what you do in the arha is a great thing. I just dont get why over and over guys consistantly attack the akc midwest and the work we do....Guys come on here with "canned questions" and you try to give them an honest answer but you soon find out they are just trying to fight and run your registration, club, or association down. I can't stand the arha for various reasons, but I don't come on here and slam the people, judges, rules, or clubs. I really dont care....they do their thing and I will keep doing mine. I will not run this registration down because there might be a new guy looking at this board and his dog just might be the next ARHA HOY, so why run him off with non-sense such as this thread.

You know many of the same guys I know but it sounds like we promote a different type of running style or scoring system (similar..but different...and on any given day one could be better than the other). I agree with you sticking to arha and me to the midwest....all in all we are both promoting rabbit dogs and if we didn't love these turd monsters then I'm sure we wouldn't spend the time and money on them that we do.

Take care Frank and keep arha on track.....

[THALL]

Me and Tony have been to I think either three or four AKC trials, placed dogs in all of them and won 2 of the trials and I dont think the judges even knew our name, so I dont think we got buddy judged at all. I like AKC format better than any of them , just to far away for us to travel .

Yall should come to Wattensaw!

[Ridge View]

These two guys are a trip!

Again I'm going to state the obvious and the facts. Not one person associated with the Mid West has said anything negative about ARHA or the people running it but you two continue to show your class and bash people for no apparent reason other than jealousy...I guess. I suggest you both call the people you have bashed and discuss your opinion with them. I will say it one more time why are mid west people not bashing ARHA and the people running it WE DONT GIVE A CRAP! Run what you like and stop running your mouths. This is ridiculous. I have never attended an ARHA trial and probably never will. But you will never see me getting behind a computer, read results in a magazine and come to a conclusion buddy judging is taking place. Why? BECAUSE I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN ARHA! RUN WHAT YOU LIKE!

Just some advice; Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Steven Bailey/Ridge View

Just in case Frank and Chapps thinks someone is hiding behind a screen name.

[swing]

THall, we would love to but I dont think the outcome would be as good as in the past, Tony's kids are into sports the same as mine are now and we dont run the dogs anything like we use to. We are planning on going gunning Monday, ( first gun hunting trip since last year ) So the dogs are not ready. But it would be fun.

[toldyouso]

steve bailey call 6146336298 i do not hide behind nothing ever. i never made the comment about hiding behind anything either. AND NEVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT YOU either. akc arha ukc pkc what ever. This computer is about discussion and thats what this was now you want to go to the next level Wow. calm down young man calm down. You know kelly said it perfect we get on here to discuss issues or something like that do not take it personal. Is there a right or wrong or is there a difference of opinion. My money is on a difference of opinion. Ok gentlemen i would just assume this is getting old for you as much as me. No hard feelings not to kelly steve mark denny shawn or anyone else. Goodluck in anything that you guys do.

[Pinocio]

WOW! I bet this post draws A lot of new comers to the sport! I don't wanna get into it about favoritism or buddy judging because I gotta say I have been running arha for a few years and did ok from the beginning, well last year I was itching to try something different so I went to a midwest trial at great Miami in cochocton Ohio! Well needless to say I knew nobody except the guys I road with to the trial and some how the stars must of alined and I won! So I guess I'm I'm just trying to show an example of a nobody doing well in different formats!