question on dog hunt style

[gus]

Matt I see a lot of talk about bloodlines that hunt as you described. I haven't seen it proven yet. I think it pays to find individuals who own dogs that hunt in the manner you like. Then try to buy pups from those individuals. Weir Creek seems to be the most popular bloodline advertised with those characteristics. Yet a few weeks back I obtained a male dog that had many Weir Creek/Boggy Hollar dogs in his pedigree. He hunted the trails and couldn't circle a rabbit if your life depended on it. His did.
My advice is find someone local to your area that hunts. You will save a lot of money and a lot of time if you follow that advice. As was mentioned above, conditions change in different parts of the country. What works in Michigan many not work in Louisiana or vice versa.

[paz]

Most Wier Creeks that I have seen are very hard hunters. I recently sold one that would really get to it.

I now have a Bramlett that also gets in the brush pretty hard. He is a very ncie jump dog. also have a young female that is a cross between hare type dogs, and cottontail dogs that really busts the brush.

You guys are right on. No need to breed for speed, you'll probaly end up with more without trying.

[JAW]

I order to get what you want in a hound today most of the time your going to have to breed them yourself.You may have to get several pups, out of many good hounds that you like then breed them according to their traits to suite your desire.There's no perfect hound and some breeders aren't striving to improve the breed but instead trying to make a living on sell hounds that are no good for HUNTING.Field trial hounds are just that in most cases and will not in most cases make good hunting hounds however they do have some good traits that when combined with other traits will help you reach your goal quicker in the brood pen.
John Watson

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Matt Smedleys,Max dog hunts about as good as you would ever want.he has never seen a brush pile that he hasnt been in and hits every little clump of grass in the field.Sure is fun to watch him.The best part about him is that he dont leave the county as he is doing it.I want a dog to hunt with me,I dont want a dog that I have to chase all over the place.To me thats just as bad if not worse than than a dog that dont hunt enough.Nothing makes me more upset than to be walking along and see a rabbit take off and have the dogs 200 yards away.Makes me want to use the gun on them more than the rabbit.I like a dog that stays right with me but stays busy.

[jumpmaster]

I have a hare bred male, ninja, ace in the hole, that has more hunt than anything I have ever hunted over. I also have a cottontail bred male, blueback, cress, that trail hunts. I dont think the theories listed above are correct. I do think way to many dogs are bred that have no hunt, or trail hunt. Having said that, a wide ranging type dog that covers lots of ground in a clear cut, or strip mine land will jump a lot of rabbits for you.

[xdawg]

Guys i agree 100% without a dog that hunts a rabbit and jumps it what else matters?

Just over a year and half ago i realized this and made a complete kennel switch to Northway/Reffett bred hounds.....

I've seen plenty of Northway/Reffett adults who've shown me what i'm missing and now i have young dogs and even pups who are completely busting my conceptions on what hunt means....

I have an almost 8 month old Northway/Reffett female who is absolutely the best hound i've started to date....

These pups are starting young, hunting hard, and building a desire for finding and running rabbits that you can't imagine......

I've also recently brought in a 75% TREX male (TREX X TREX-DAUGHTER) which i plan to cross a few older northway females with.... The northway stuff i brought in is very well linebred stuff, figured i'd cross them out to TREX stuff.... Planning on this being a pretty big outcross as far as blood goes but when it comes to ability that dogs should match up real nice (i don't want to outcross to a different style of hound)

Anyways, only time will tell.............

Take Care,
Jack

PS. I do own a SPEEDY SPORT MALE..... Like him alot, hunts good, jumps rabbits, but dang he covers a ton of land quick.....

[JAW]

Jack it seems that I'm making the switch to Northway/Reffett (better late than never if I want a hunting hound) then I'll go from there with my breeding program.It all starts with hunt and desire in a hound if your kennel is going to be successfull. I'm tired of the mostly trail running hound that I've got,he sometimes make for a bored morning when I really want to hear some hound music.Many times I've seen my hound running the trail instead of getting in the brairs were the rabbit is hold up and many a times I tell him I'm going to kill him.The sad part of this all is he can really run the heck out of a rabbit he just don't like to search the brairs unless he smells scent on the trail. John Watson

[HatterasBob]

Guys,
I agree with most of what you have said, but I believe you have attributed hunt to genes when alot of it is training. Hare dogs don't hunt like cottontail dogs. That is dogs trained on hare and dogs trained on cottontail. I have an outstanding hard hunting male out of Ranger Dan and Cool Running Sonic and that is hard core hare breeding, but he was trained in Tenn on cottontails. I have purchased many hare hounds and whiched then to cottontails. 50% don't hunt like they should, but many do but it takes a while. My first hare bitch had to be sent into a briar bush where a rabbit was seen sitting. She jumped it and never had to be sent into the briars again. She became a very nice dog, placing every time put down in all formats. Her sister only jumped 1 rabbit that I know of in 2 years. It's training not breeding. Hare dogs want to run rabbits just as bad as cottontail dogs, they just don't know where to find them. Every dog I own except 1 is hare breed. The pups I've breed the last 2 years have outstanding hunt and very good jumping ability, it was the training. I start my pups at 10 weeks old, by the time they are 16 weeks they have outragious hunt. Drop them in the woods and they disappear into the thickest stuff at a full run. They love getting into the briars and they jump rabbits. I personally believe that hare dogs would be better if they were trained on cottontails first and then shown hare. Remember the old saying "Can't teach an old dog new tricks!" , well it applies to hare dogs learning to run cottontails. If they are started on cottontails, then no problem. It is training not genes. Hare breed pups if trained right will have lots of hunt, because they already have the desire, they just need to be shown where the cottontails hide. JMHO
Bob

[mike crabtree]

Bob, I have to disagree. I think it is Genes and training. I have several lines, they all have gotten the same chance, but none of them hunt as good as my Kingwood T Rex stuff.
You have to admit that Blue Ninja, Northway Spur, and Turbo throw good hunt.It isnt coincidence that most of these dogs got in good owners hands.
A lot of other dogs are throwing good hunt, but a lot of dogs are throwing line running check machines that will not hunt worth crap.

[xdawg]

Bob....

I'm a advocate of "its how you train them too" also.....

However, my Speedy Sport male hunts wider then everything else i've ever owned.... Between Dad and myself in the last 2 years we've started and raised 5-7 hounds and he is the only one who'll cover that much ground.... There has to be something to the blood still....

I'm not complaining, i like everything about the dog, he'll cover a ton of ground and find his fair share of rabbits..... He'll get in the stick stuff too....

-Jack

[houndsound]

Jimmie you are correct. When they start giving ribbonss, medals, and trophies for the best jump dog, or start enforcing the rule of picking up dogs that don't hunt, you will see and increase in the quality of good jump dogs.
I wonder how many owners of field champions, when actually rabbit hunting, their field champion is their favorite rabbit dog. Do their rabbit hunting buddies ask them to be sure and bring FC xxx. Or is the FC just another mouth in the pack.

I know that UKC HB trials a dog gets rewarded more for jumping a rabbit then anything else. Not familiar enough with other formats to really comment on them.

dk

[houndsound]

I'm surprised any rabbits ever get harvested as their are only a couple of lines of dogs that will jump them when they're not in the middle of the road, LOL. Seriously though, I do understand what you guys are saying.... I agree, hunt is the most important thing to breed for, and probablly the hardest trait to pass on....... that said, I don't think it's as rare as what I'm reading here. JMHO.

dk

[HatterasBob]

Mike,
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have owned several line running check dogs as you call them. I have breed 2 of them and ended up with dogs with outstanding hunt and jumping ability. That little bitch you wanted to buy became an outstanding jump dog with outragious hunt. She had too much mouth for me, even though she often produced the rabbit. She was out of a Ranger Dan male and a Branko female. It's more in the training then the genes.

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

No offense Bob but can you explain to me how you train a dog to hunt after it gets tired?

I have never seen a dog that was once lazy learn to become a motivated hunter.

If they don't start out hunting there gone at my place.

I breed for hunt since I do not have the patience to train for it.

[HatterasBob]

Robert,
I never said I could make a dog that was tired, hunt. This is a matter of conditioning.

I never said I could make a lazy dog a motivated hunter. Lazy dogs need to be culled.

What I said was I can train hare breed dogs to be aggressive hunters if I start at 10 - 12 weeks old. Will some not make it? Of course, just like cottontail breed dogs. What I'm saying is that Hare breed dogs DO NOT have the hunt breed out of them, It is trained out of them. It is a learned or in this case NOT learned process.

My success converting running hare dogs to cottontail dogs is probably less than 50%, and seldom do they ever LEARN to jump cottontails as well as a dog trained on cottontails.

I'm sure the same goes for Cottontails hounds taken to the north to run hare. They will hunt wrong. They will hunt the thick stuff instead of searching for cold tracks to turn into hot ones.

I know this thought goes against conventional wisdom, but it works for me, so try it you'll like it.