"RUNNING TOO MUCH RABBIT"?????????????????????

[Chuck Terry]

Tastes in speed and style vary and even change over time (some folks go from one extreme to the other in a short time!). As beaglers who once ran faster dogs age, they tend to gradually shift to slower dogs. We had one older guy in our club that decided he only wanted LOUD walkie talkies - the type he could hear and catch! Nothing wrong with that in my mind! Do I think intentional breeding for that is "bettering the breed?" No, but that is just my OPINION and you know what they say about that. Run what you like and do not feel obligated to give anyone a reason unless they pay your bills! Some folks who like one style and then are "converted" and feel need to share their "revelation" in beagle knowledge. As well intentioned as that may be, it normally just hurts feelings and leads to arguments with neither side winning the debate in the end! This definitely does NOTHING to promote or enhance our sport! The good news about the great variation in speed and style is that there is a beagle out there to satisfy anyone's taste!!!!!!!!!! Good running (regardless of speed and style!) to you ALL!

[gus]

If a dog is running the rabbits trail, it can't be too fast. If a dog is runing just to be the lead dog you have problems. The only thing more boring than a hound not running to catch is a loooong check. It gets mighty boring when you see a rabbit turn, or back track, and the dogs keep going, belloring to the top of their lungs, the rest of the pack keep yipping, me to, me to, then they finally figure out, what happened to the trail. They all look at each other and then fall in line behind the idiot that led them off. (That is a different example of "slotting up").
When the lead dog is running the line, and not racing, he knows when he runs out of scent, stops and goes back to the point of loss, recovers and the race is on again. It has nothing to do with speed. It's a beautiful and rewarding sight. It has to do with brains.
I've gone to large pack trials and witnessed dogs that withinin thirty seconds of a check there wasn't a dog within a hundred yards of the point of loss. Within a minute you couldn't see or hear a dog. They would be scattered over a quarter mile area. After one dog opened on a recovery, after a time, dogs would appear from every direction.

It's still a great country. Run and feed what you like.

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

I have run everything from spo ubgf dogs to full out wind splitters.

I find the type of gun dogs I like to hunt cottontail with are upper medium speed. Very steady running dogs that still hunt and still know how to reach forward in the check. And give plenty of mouth on track with out leaving huge gaps in the line if possible. And most importantly they run the rabbit not against each other.

The dogs I absolutly will not hunt over are slow methodical super tight check dogs that will not reach forward but continue to reach back untill they eventually get so far behind the rabbit they can't run it.

If I couldn't run the type of dog I do now my second choice would be full out wind splitters.

[Redbird]

That term is used in a polite way to tell you that your dog is faulty. [Realize that I am not saying that your dog is faulty] I believe that anyone should run what they like at the same time realizing that what they like may not be what others like. Thus when you go to a trial you have to suit others likes first then your own.

I dont trial because I dont care who doesnt like my style of dogs. I run med speed, close in the check area] We killed over 100 rabbits this year running/tracking them at med speed! So speed is not a real factor unless the dogs have poor noses and/or brains then they need to catch that rabbit before the rabbit pulls a double and gets away.

The following are terms from the AKC rule book that may indicate "running too much rabbit"

SWINGING:
Swinging is casting out too far and too soon from the last point of contact, without first making an attempt to regain scent near the loss. It is a gambling action, quite often indicating over-competitiveness or an attempt to gain unearned advantage over running mates.

SKIRTING:
Skirting is purposely leaving the trail in an attempt to gain a lead or avoid hazardous cover or hard work. It is cutting out and around true trailing mates in an attempt to intercept the trail ahead. Leaving checks is failure to stay in the vicinity of a loss and attempt to work it out, bounding off in hopes of encountering the trail or new game. Leaving checks denotes lack of patience and perseverance. Running mute is failure to give tongue when making progress on the line.

TIGHTMOUTHED:
Tightness of mouth is a failure to give sufficient tongue when making progress. This will often be evidenced by the hound tightening up when pressed or when going away from a check.

RACING:
Racing is attempting to outfoot running mates without regard for the trail. Racing hounds overshoot the turns and generally spend more time off the trail than on it.

RUNNING HIT OR MISS:
Running hit or miss is attempting to make progress without maintaining continuous contact with the trail, or gambling to hit the trail ahead. Lack of independence is a common fault that is shown by watching other hounds and allowing them to determine the course of action. Any action which indicates undue concern for other hounds, except when harking in, is cause for demerit.

BOUNDING:
Bounding off is rushing ahead when contact with scent is made, without properly determining direction of game travel.

[S.R.Patch]

Do they also use the term, "running to little rabbit" or "not running enough rabbit", for those who anchor on the check, or dwell upon the line?
A beagle should pursue with an "urgent need" to get his business done and accomplish the task. A rabbit/hare that is not constantly pressured, will never be caught...

I'm not into trials, but I'd rather know more precisely what fault/faults eliminated my hound from competition, rather than a term that sounds off-handed like, he's getting to much done...jmho

[Big CIty]

They do use the terms you stated, and some times when you have got down to 7 dogs from 50, the dogs that are getting picked up arnt really faulty, thay just are no longer getting it done. at the end of the day we are looking for the best.

Also in my opinion when they say hes running to much rabbit, your dog is not the type of dog there looking for at the trail, just like you like a certian type of dogs in your hunting pack. Say what you want about Feild Trials, but when you see a WINNERS PACK that RUNS a rabbit NONSTOP, check free until its holed, or they catch it, its hard to say the judges dont know what there doing. If your type of dog cant contribute to something like that, you might want to find a new one. JMO, not trashing anyone.

[tommyg]

They do use the terms you stated, and some times when you have got down to 7 dogs from 50, the dogs that are getting picked up arnt really faulty, thay just are no longer getting it done. at the end of the day we are looking for the best.

Also in my opinion when they say hes running to much rabbit, your dog is not the type of dog there looking for at the trail, just like you like a certian type of dogs in your hunting pack. Say what you want about Feild Trials, but when you see a WINNERS PACK that RUNS a rabbit NONSTOP, check free until its holed, or they catch it, its hard to say the judges dont know what there doing. If your type of dog cant contribute to something like that, you might want to find a new one. JMO, not trashing anyone.

[Big CIty]

Whats wrong? Never seen that happen?

[S.R.Patch]

BC,
Nothing against any judges, and if the winners pack ends the day as you discribed, you got good judges & good hounds.
It's just the term "running to much rabbit" has sent many people away from a trial, unsure of what happened. They truely don't understand, and if they don't understand, they won't be back because they feel mistreated. How can this help the brotherhood and better the little hounds?
A man who's paid his money for an opinion, should leave with an understanding of what took him out of the race. jmho

As tommy said, this is a old term that was used to get a "rabbitdawg" out of a hobby hound pack, back in the old days...

A judge once told us, "Boys, at the end of the day, I'm only going to make one of you really happy. I hope the rest of us good sportsmen will agree and congratulate them on their good fortune. As for the rest, I'll try an give the account where your hound was lacking and as it was not their day."
This fellow did his best and had notes and reason for his score. All may not have agreed, but all left with an understanding of why they fell where they did. It was this fellow openness that carried it off...

[Big CIty]

Yes I agree that everyone should be givin an explaination of why there hound was picked up. I have been told my dog was running too much rabbit before, and I said aint that what hes supposed to do? The man kindly pointed out that the dog was not a bad dog at all and told me that he would do well under Mid West judges, where some of the things he was doing would be over looked. Well he was right I took him to a Mid West trial, and he placed 2nd. The first trial was a UBGF trial. When i run dogs I am constantly judging my own, not just standing around B.S.ing, or sitting on the tail gate; and over timeI realized that I liked a cleaner dog than the one mentioned above. I like the UBGF dogs, you just gotta watch what you keep, because some of those boys have bred the hunt right out of thier dogs. Other than that I think there all around good hounds,Iknow some parts of the country the UBGF dogs can get pretty slow, but in my part of the country they run MED, with gears. When I hunt I dont jump shoot, but I dont like to get cold either. This year I am only hunting one hound, and he gets it done in a timely manner, and looks good doing it. I know we dont all like the same type of dog, but I have seen everything from ARHA LP, to TRA Brace, and right now I like what Ive got. Alot of guys have only run one type of dog there whole life, and never even seen some of the other types out thare, but yet they think they have the best thing since sliced bread. If your happy with what you got keep it, if not get something better.

[tommyg]

Big City I have owned UGBF Style hounds and thats why I don't own them now. As far as hunt I'll put mine in the brush with any,they'll do there part. Running to much rabbit is a explaination that in my eyes is cheating,not in the rule book. Just like you said I run what I like,and I feed them. No I've never seen a true UGBF hound catch a Rabbit and doubt I ever will.

[ricky murphy]

MY DOGS ARE PART OF MY FAMILY ALSO the fast the slow ones the ones that bark too much an the ones that dont bark enough THE POINT I WANT U U U U U TO IS ABOVE ALL WHERE A FAMILY throught the good timmes an the not so great when the rabbits r every where an when a warm trail is hard to find these dogs these slow dogs these fast most of all these dogs rlm

[Big CIty]

Tommy If the only thing they can say is he was running to much rabbit, I AGREE its cheating, cause running too much rabbit is NOT a fault! However I think most of the time thats not the case, or if it is its cause the judges are too old and too stubburn to admit that they can not keep up with the hound to give him a fair look. I must correct myself I didnt mean CATCH, what I should have said is OVER RUN, most of the time when dogs catch a rabbit its cause they see it and run it down. To OVER RUN one in my eyes is alot more immpressive. When the dogs are so non stop on a rabbit causing it to cramp up and be overtaken, it is the ultimate pat on the back, to either you as the owner of a fine pack, or the judge who busted his a$$ all day and is lucky to recieve enough pay to cover his gas expenses. I have seen the UBGF dogs do that 2 times in the past year. Hopefully I will be able to own a pack of that caliber, without going bankrupt. None of my posts are meant to be arguement, I just like to talk dogs. I have ran ur type in the past as you have mine, nothing wrong with the dogs you run, I just prefer what I'm messin with now. Good luck with urs in the future, and good runnin to ya.

[CHAD_PLUNKETT]

Tommyg,
Not trying to argue but U.B.G.F dogs will catch a rabbit. Mine have caught several.

I judged a UBGF derby trial (13" males) at SEMO beagle club last spring. When we made it to our winners pack they holed the first rabbit. They caught the second rabbit and we got them judged on the third rabbit. The male that won that day (which was the male that cuaght the rabbit) has 3 lisc wins this trial season in UBGF trials. So to say that UBGF dogs are all slow and cant catch a rabbit is not true.

I'm not a huge supporter of UBGF trials anymore. It seems like they make up alot of reasons to pick your dog up unless your in the certain click. Thats why I dont go to them anymore.

[tommyg]

Chad I just havn't seen a true UGBF hound catch one. The hounds that are agressive enough to catch a Rabbit get picked up useuly. I know the trials here and I've only been to 1 and didnot run a hound, was a joke. They picked the Rabbit dog up,the others were slow and mouthy with no or little hunt. I hope they start alowing more aggressive hounds,itwould be a good format.