A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
What can I say, she didn't come back so we left her out. I ain't chasing a dog down so it can go home.
I have 9 beagles in my kennel and I have exactly 0 shy dogs. Some are a tad hard headed at times but all love attention and all come home without much effort to catch them. I call, they come.
I think Marlin makes a good .22 rifle. I bet if you talk to them they will tell you they had shy dogs in mind when they designed it.
"No stronger bond exist than that between a man and his dog."
In answer to the question, it's popularity. Anytime a breed of animal becomes popular the money grubbers immediately go into operation. Just read the For Sale Boards and pay attention to who always seems to have a top prospect for sale.
A good aexample. I have two hunting buddies. Each had a beagle hunting dog sired by the same very famous and popular Field Champion. Both had excellent pedigrees. Both could run a rabbit very efficiently. The problem with the bitch is that she would never shut up. She had a wonderful mouth that really added music to any race. However, once the rabbit was accounted for that beautiful mouth turned in to the most irritating noise that you could imagine. Did I mention that she never shut up. ugh
The male was an honest hound but was a dedicated deer chaser. He about wore out a shocking collar and he never quit. The female was advertised on one of the "for sale" boards and was sold immediately. A month later the male dog was advertised on a board and sold just as quickly. Interestingly the guy who bought the male had also bought the female. So, I suppose, in less than six months we will see double mated FC XXX pups for sale.
Perspective buyers should get Tritronics and ear plugs prior to field training of the pups.
Oh did I mention that the female would also chase a deer or anything else any other hound in the pack would run. She was so competitive that if another dog barked she would open immediately and never shut up until she was in the race no matter the quarry.
Gus,
Would you say your buddy who sold the faulty hounds is also to be considered a "money grubber"? I would say anyone who pawns off onto somebody else their problem hounds, in an attempt to keep from losing money, is doing fellow beaglers and the breed itself a big disservice. This is the kind of stuff that makes the sport so difficult to trust anyone. I think the guy named "Marlin" should have gotten both those hounds if they were as bad as you describe and not some other hunter named "Duped"! Just my two cents.
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
Steve C. wrote:A lot of this shyness too is the result of breeders who keep and breed too many hounds (I've been close to it myself). The hounds are up on wire where they get very little attention or human contact and the pups get the same treatment at the critical age of 5 to 16 weeks. No question genetics plays a role but I find that most of the damage is done during puppyhood. My very best hounds were produced when I had only a few dogs in the kennel and each one was given all the running and attention it could want. Fortunately I've seen no shyness in the bloodlines I've been working with, but I'll bet a new pair of snowshoes that I would see it if the pups were just left in the kennel til they were old enough to start.
I agree whole-heartedly, Steve. More often than not I believe this to be the biggest problem contributing to shyness. Genetics - very little (as compared to other breeds, beagles are an inherently shy breed anyway, and we seem to have friendly beagles after normal handling.) JMHO.
New York Hillbilly wrote:Gus,
Would you say your buddy who sold the faulty hounds is also to be considered a "money grubber"? I would say anyone who pawns off onto somebody else their problem hounds, in an attempt to keep from losing money, is doing fellow beaglers and the breed itself a big disservice. This is the kind of stuff that makes the sport so difficult to trust anyone. I think the guy named "Marlin" should have gotten both those hounds if they were as bad as you describe and not some other hunter named "Duped"! Just my two cents.
NYH
If I advertised a sports car for sale with faulty brakes and you stopped by and told me you were a mechanic and the brake problem was no problem. Then a week later I read in the newspaper that your mother in law ran over a cliff in that sport car, would I be my fault.
Gus, I got a call about Blaze and his "indescretions" with deer. I can assure you that he never ran any off game of any kind while he was here the first 3 years of his life. I can't say if that was the case after he left. I will say that of all the other hounds I've had off his sire, not a single one has ever run trash as long as I had them and the oldest are now nearly 8 years old. They certainly had plenty of exposure. I understand your point though, and agree with your prediction, unfortunately. While I also agree that to an extent, I believe trashiness can be genetic, the majority of hounds off this sire were guaranteed trashproof, as he himself was. I can't count the times I've seen these hounds pass up the opportunity to run deer, moose or other off game. None are perfect I guess. That was an awfully good hound though, and it's a shame things went the way they did. He had 4 owners during his first 4 years of life. If he had stayed 13" he'd never have left here.
Steve when I wrote that post, I had in mind your advice about not crossing that line up close. Either of those dogs will probably produce a good percentage of fine hounds when bred correctly. However, I am skeptical of the new owners intentions. On the bright side, he is in an area where there are a lot of trials for him to finish the male. He is a fine dog and maybe the new owner has a technique to break him off deer. All beaglers that saw him run down here had a high opinion of his ability. Personally, I lked the way the bitch ran a rabbit. She was tough, she hunted, but she could not stand competition without being a total nuisance.
Gus,
If you sold me a car that sent my mother in law over a cliff I wouldn't hold it against you! But....if you sold that car to me with full knowledge that I planned to pull off such a scheme, my wife and her sibblings might feel differently and you might actually be held to account for it. Here is a thought...how about all of us, everytime we get a beagle that we feel is so faulty it should never be bred we keep it and don't breed it, or sell/give it to someone who will be happy with it but toss the papers in the garbage to make breeding unlikely to make money off pups, or send it to hunting heaven. An idea?
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
Gus, no offense taken- merely wanted to clarify that this hound was never a cull and didn't want his sire to get bad publicity for passing along faulty genes. But anytime someone is making a close cross he has a responsibility to the resulting pups to have done his homework and know the risks involved in close breeding. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and understand the point you were making and hope that no breeding takes place based merely on the fact that these might make marketable pups. When the motive is money, the dogs suffer.
Genetics, health, and socialization all play a roll. The only shy beagle I ever owned was from good breeding. She wasn't a young pup when I got her. She was very sick had 4 kinds of internal parasites. She whimpered when I picked her up from the pain she was in. Got her healthy but she wasn't making much progress on temperament. She ran away one day and got hit by a car. End of the story. Give pups a great start with excellentt health and nutrition and interact with them while they are young. Children are great for pups. Dan M
Here is a thought...how about all of us, everytime we get a beagle that we feel is so faulty it should never be bred we keep it and don't breed it, or sell/give it to someone who will be happy with it but toss the papers in the garbage to make breeding unlikely to make money off pups, or send it to hunting heaven. An idea? 