DO ARHA LITTLE PACK HOUNDS RUN TO ROUGH? if so why?
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
-
RWK
DO ARHA LITTLE PACK HOUNDS RUN TO ROUGH? if so why?
I THINK THEY ARE QUITE A FEW THAT DO FOR ALOT OF REASONS ONE IS DESIRE TO OUT RUN OTHER HOUNDS.
-
wed
-
New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
What a crock of sh...! To say that LP hounds are all of those negative things is not only a generalization that is unfair (as most are) but is also foolish at best and dishonest at it's worst. I have seen LP hounds that are all of what you say but then again I have seen (and own) LP style hounds that can smoke a rabbit while holding the line, do not babble, and pack up as good as any other hound. I have also seen SPO hounds that do the breed proud and still others that are so slow that they run the risk of growing old and dying during the chase. And the worst of the lot in my opinion has been many of the hounds that I personally witnessed running in AKC Large Pack. Fifty or sixty hounds all dropped at the same time all running in different directions barking because everyone else is, stealing, swinging, cheating....you name it I watched it. The good hounds that are in the hunt are often at their wits end as they are subjected to the chaos and often lose out to the hounds that are slick enough to always steal the front. I have many times seen the hare being pursued in these hunts turn and when the fastest of the pack come flying along and run right of the end of the line by 75 yards and lose the line all together. Then along comes a slower hound on the line that turns and pursues the hare only to have the speedy gang again cut cross lots and jump in front again. These hounds make my LP hounds look like Brace hounds. 
Is that to say they all are no good? No! I have seen one or two of these hounds that defy all sense of logic and can really pursue a hare at those speeds. But notice I said I have seen only one or two. In ARHA PP I have see some good hounds that can speed right along and gear down if need be. But in this format I have also seen some that were babblers and clue less! A person needs to be careful not to lump all hounds in any format together because there is good and bad in all of them. For the record I have marshalled AKC Large Pack on hare trials for the past two years for our local club, I have trialed in ARHA PP and won, I have trialed in ARHA and won and own an ARHA field/bench champion and two ARHA bench champions that are very close to championing out in the field. My hounds are not as you desribe and I would be only to happy to throw them down with anyones best. If need be I can even put someone up this fall at my place so there is no reason to back out! And then I'll let my hounds do their own talking! 
Peace,
NYH
Is that to say they all are no good? No! I have seen one or two of these hounds that defy all sense of logic and can really pursue a hare at those speeds. But notice I said I have seen only one or two. In ARHA PP I have see some good hounds that can speed right along and gear down if need be. But in this format I have also seen some that were babblers and clue less! A person needs to be careful not to lump all hounds in any format together because there is good and bad in all of them. For the record I have marshalled AKC Large Pack on hare trials for the past two years for our local club, I have trialed in ARHA PP and won, I have trialed in ARHA and won and own an ARHA field/bench champion and two ARHA bench champions that are very close to championing out in the field. My hounds are not as you desribe and I would be only to happy to throw them down with anyones best. If need be I can even put someone up this fall at my place so there is no reason to back out! And then I'll let my hounds do their own talking! Peace,
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
rough hounds
NY HIllbilly just about said it all. What I have noticed in the LP division is that there are some speed demons that are wild and loose that will get a win here and there, but for the most part the most consistent winners are those dogs that are medium fast to fast that can pound a line.
Big Dog
Big Dog
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
A hound that accounts for his game in an intelligent manner is difficult to beat overall. As far as speed goes, I agree with Big Dog - med-fast, low end of fast seem to be more consistent. Fast-fast is fun sometimes, but there are two great equalizers when it comes to speed really being a factor; cover and conditions. A hound with a touch less foot may not necessarily be at a disadvantage to the fast hound come June's cover or January's old snow. Case in point, I have a 12-yr-old Luci Van Little Man bred hound here that qualified and ran in the 2000 Little Pack World Hunt. He qualified on a day when speed was not a factor, but nose was. He missed winning his first round at the World Hunt by a dime - against much faster-bred hounds, but in some tough, briary cover.
Not saying go buy a UBGF bred hound and expect to succeed in Little Pack, but that hound that hits the middle ground somewhere, wastes few steps, runs in an energetic manner and the same way each time you drop the tailgate is the one that brings home the hardware the majority of the time in the majority of the formats. At least that's been my observations and we've run 4 different formats in 3 different registries this last two years. A good hound is a good hound, is a good hound.
If you're lucky enough to have a "good hound", there's no guarantee you won't have those days when the outcome will disappoint you - but you won't leave the field disappointed in your hound.... and that is what really matters.
Not saying go buy a UBGF bred hound and expect to succeed in Little Pack, but that hound that hits the middle ground somewhere, wastes few steps, runs in an energetic manner and the same way each time you drop the tailgate is the one that brings home the hardware the majority of the time in the majority of the formats. At least that's been my observations and we've run 4 different formats in 3 different registries this last two years. A good hound is a good hound, is a good hound.
If you're lucky enough to have a "good hound", there's no guarantee you won't have those days when the outcome will disappoint you - but you won't leave the field disappointed in your hound.... and that is what really matters.
rough little pack
It would really be interesting for me to see some of the dogs that placed in big hunts that were AKC registered run in the AKC Midwest Gundog Association. I would like to see how some dogs like Ben's BJ, Rocky Hill's Tough Survivor, or WElls big Bomber would do in this format. I constantly hear how fast the dogs are in this format, but I don't know any of those dogs and can't compare them to anything. Is rougher running encouraged in this format or will a dog be picked up for it. Some people mistake rough running for speed, and the two things are very different. I plan on seeing for myself next spring when some of my potlickers are old enough and ready.
Just my two cents.
Big Dog
Just my two cents.
Big Dog
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
-
RWK
-
New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Nate,
I just finished Marshalling two days of AKC Large Pack on hares. I want to tell uou it was more of what I have come to expect each time I do this. The hounds are cut and all hell breaks loose. Barking and running in a pack just because every one else is, cutting, slashing, swinging,quiting,you name I see it. There were a couple of good hounds left at the end but a few even better ones got picked up because they could not run the front. Many of the fastest would charge to the front , fly to where the hare turned and then lead a pack of barking idiots off the end and ultimately loosing the line altogether. Then here comes the one hound who is running the hare and not just with the gang. This hounds turns on the line only to have the fools come running from their hangout and take he front again....and...again...and......I was more impressed with the judges than the hounds. These guys earned my respect for the work they did. What ever they get paid is not enough. This morning I ran with the hounds for five straight hours till the hunt was over. I'll tell you more later. I have to go eat dinner with the family. But I wanted to tell you Nate that while I too like fast hounds....sometimes the only thing it kills is THE RACE. That is at least at the hands of the hounds I have been chasing for the past two days.
Peace,
NYH...........soaked and wet!
I just finished Marshalling two days of AKC Large Pack on hares. I want to tell uou it was more of what I have come to expect each time I do this. The hounds are cut and all hell breaks loose. Barking and running in a pack just because every one else is, cutting, slashing, swinging,quiting,you name I see it. There were a couple of good hounds left at the end but a few even better ones got picked up because they could not run the front. Many of the fastest would charge to the front , fly to where the hare turned and then lead a pack of barking idiots off the end and ultimately loosing the line altogether. Then here comes the one hound who is running the hare and not just with the gang. This hounds turns on the line only to have the fools come running from their hangout and take he front again....and...again...and......I was more impressed with the judges than the hounds. These guys earned my respect for the work they did. What ever they get paid is not enough. This morning I ran with the hounds for five straight hours till the hunt was over. I'll tell you more later. I have to go eat dinner with the family. But I wanted to tell you Nate that while I too like fast hounds....sometimes the only thing it kills is THE RACE. That is at least at the hands of the hounds I have been chasing for the past two days.
Peace,
NYH...........soaked and wet!
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
-
MasonsBeagles
LP
You know what. AT one of the last hunts I was at a guy was saying the same thing but funny he had four that day and to be honest I wouldnt feed a one of them. You know what i feel about that. Go run another format. I do admit there are alot in the trials that are rough as He__ and should be shot but as a whole which seems what this post is trying to stereotype. So everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect it but if you dont like the format find one that you do.
I like a fast hound as much as anybody ,but when you are in a cast and you draw one of these hounds that is running silent along side a pack,or
constantly leaving the line to swing out there 75 yds it kind of blows things up.I judged a pack of champs this year at the world and every time there was a check open there wasn't a dog in sight .Alot of checks were missed that hour , so go ahead and haul those rough suckers if i don't see them they won't be scored.
constantly leaving the line to swing out there 75 yds it kind of blows things up.I judged a pack of champs this year at the world and every time there was a check open there wasn't a dog in sight .Alot of checks were missed that hour , so go ahead and haul those rough suckers if i don't see them they won't be scored.
-
Chain Gang
A well trained hound can succeed in any format. A hound trained from a tailgate will normally do all the things you don't want to see,including being picked up the next day.After it gets tired of running TRASH.AKC or ARHA.I personnally run both ,have won in both.Seen the same bad dogs in both.I could be wrong but I don't think the dog knows if he's entered in AKC or ARHA.Just my opinion,been wrong before.I don't think you can put a blanket statement out for either type.There are always good days and dogs and bad days and dogs in both.Look at FC&PPRC Jones Strate Talk Sonny on SPO Links.Burns the feet off AKC dogs, and high sides ARHA dogs in the turns.I've personnally never heard anyone say he's to rough to run AKC.But how can that be he's a PPRC.Just an example,and no he's not my dog.
-
blueback_runner
Go to this link and click on Upcoming Hunts: http://www.arha.com/divisions/LP/little.htm
You'll need Acrobat Reader (free download available at http://www.acrobat.com ) to open the schedule.
Hope this helps.
You'll need Acrobat Reader (free download available at http://www.acrobat.com ) to open the schedule.
Hope this helps.