whats ur call

[SilverZuk]

if dog c was running the original line that dogs a & b blew up and lost and
hasn't quit running that line how would you have a check unless dog c
loses the track at the same place a & b lost it. so your saying if hound c
keeps the original line going past where a & b lost the track that he would
receive a check?

So what you are saying is that you can't open a check unless all dogs are present?
You wouldn't even start to count the 15 seconds until dog C showed up, even though A and B have worked the check over 15 seconds?

I figure most are counting 15 seconds from the original loss of dogs A and B.

[L.J. McKenzie]

sounds like dog c was compleatly out of the chase from the start. handler of dog c shouldve put his dog in the race and there wouldnt have been a question. if a and b were hammering and dog c didnt pull in to them then dog c doesnt belong in a trial. check dog b should be the only score.

[island ridge hounds]

i totally agree dog b should receive a check. i do not agree that dog c
receives a minus. what i was getting at if dog b doesn't pick the track
up and dog c and now a after he goes back to c continues there progress
when he reaches dog b's check even though he never lose's the line
would he get a check if he goes on with the track hound b couldn't pickup?

[SilverZuk]

i totally agree dog b should receive a check. i do not agree that dog c
receives a minus. what i was getting at if dog b doesn't pick the track
up and dog c and now a after he goes back to c continues there progress
when he reaches dog b's check even though he never lose's the line
would he get a check if he goes on with the track hound b couldn't pickup?

In that unlikely situation, I guess you would score dog c with a check.
The check was open and the slow dog ran through with its head down and kept going never leaving the line. If the check is open, you have to score the dog that drove it out.

I see situations like this with an gip of mine, but she is rarely 15 seconds behind. She is slow, but stays right on the line. The pack will be in a check area, she will run right through the check barking and never even slow down. Pull the rest of the pack back on the line and they will all pass her. She will be behind barking every step.

I don't trial her because she is slow.
I keep her because she has a nose that pays for her feed on those frosty mornings or tough scenting conditions.
I had her spayed because she has faults with her running gear and conformation.
I feed her because she is a good pup trainer, will come back and jump up on your leg if you have a trash chase, and she will find a rabbit on those mornings when all the other dogs have quit working an area.

[island ridge hounds]

i've been in this situation in a cast before. it was a two dog race with the
other three dogs trying to catch up. the two lead dogs are racing as much
as possible but still in the vacinity of the track when they lost track and
check was open a dog from behind that never lost track keep right on going he was checked for his efforts and kept this up throughout the hour.
needless to say the slower dog won the hour from behind. you can imagine it was hard to take. at that time we all wondered if the check was
actually open if other dogs never lost the track.

[burbba]

how do you know "C" pulled the dogs out of the check area? Isnt it very possible A and B over-ran the track?

If B takes off with the track from the "check" area, AND can keep it going, then score B for the check. (assuming the other dogs hark in, as they are supposed to)

I dont agree with minusing a dog for barking on a hot scent (unless your talking 50+ yards away, and they sit there and boo hoo) and the other dog harks to the bark. ANY pack dog will hark to a barking dog during a hard check. YOUR DOG SHOULDNT HARK IF THEY ARE CONFIDENT THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT AREA!

If dog C is behind them, then the front 2 shouldnt go back, as long as they know they are on the track...

It is way too hard to "score" based on an email. Your talking about LP dogs I assume, and they move out. I strongly doubt the judges saw where the rabbit turned, and the dogs missed, causing the check. Question is, who is to say Dog C didnt stop at the last place he smelled the rabbit, and A/B got too caught up in competing with each other and over-ran the track...

Wasnt there, doesnt matter to me, but food for thought.

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

I had a sitiuation like that at the world a few years back. Dog A struck and took dogs B,C,& D with it for about 70 yards, then a loss. Along comes dog E and strikes where the rabbit was originally struck, pulls all the other dogs back and then the judge yells dead track! I guess 4 dogs going 70 yards at full cry wasn't considered produced. The judge minused dog A for not producing because there is no rule about pulling dogs out of a strike. Go figure that one ! Dave

[mccall]

We are sitting and making calls and we were not even there.The judge has to make the call and keep on judging.We then run another thread wondering why we can not get good judges.If we are doing this to help the situation ,good if sour grapes shame on us.It would take the supreme court 10 years to sort thru this.Guys we have to learn and get better,but if we get a bad call hump up and hope we get a better one next time.Have any of us ever pointed out a bad call when it was to our advantage to keep quiet???? Just another view and if what I said bothers you I feel sorry for the 18 year old that juges your dogs.

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

Doesn't sound like sour grapes to me, just a bunch of guys pionting out simular situations. How are any of us gonna become better judges if we can't discuss situations like this. Like Preachers Kennel pionted out this is a tool and it sounds positive to me. Dave

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

grown up shopuld be able to learn from things children usually just fuss whos right,, but i have seen 40 yr old kids before lol!this was put on here for finding out how everybody else wouyld judge that i tried to post it the way it was told to me , i had a dog in the cast dog b but dog a won the cast and rightly so from all i was told and i have no problem with that.
SO what some of u r saying is if 2 dogs r running together buring a rabbit up for a long ways another dog that was there doesnt even try to catch them but finally gets close enuf to cross a hot line that has jkust been run by other dogs but is still 40 yards away and the other 2 dogs r in a check at the time and it barks and draws one of the other dogs back it shgouldnt be minused...hhhmmmmmm..to me that dog lacked desire to be in the chase it coulda run up there at any time THEY WERENT SILENT RUNNING LOL...and lacked the smarts to know it had already been run by smeeling dog scent already there. how they know this stuff is beyond me but i love it when i see mydogs not do it.earlier in the post mike crabtree posted how he woulda done it and i TOTTALLY Agree!

[island ridge hounds]

seems to me the guys saying that we weren't there could have a point.
we don't know how dog's a & b got so far ahead (swinging or maybe a
different rabbit all together). i would have a problem with minusing a dog
thats running to much rabbit. i guess it would be a good time to put them
back together if the check is lengthy. but if a or b actually pick up the
check all you can do is tell the handlers to get'em in the race.

[SilverZuk]

McCall,
No one called names, places, dogs, or such.
The question is truly a judgement call in the field.
By reading the responses, the rule book, and adding to it - I have become more educated and will be a better judge. I hope others will also.

I am not 18, but sometimes I think I am right before the pain hits me.

[SilverZuk]

Preacher,
What you described in your last post, I can see giving the dog that was in the race a minus if it was as you described unless it was running the line to the check area. I have seen dogs stretched out over 50 to 100 yards before. I have seen bear hounds stretched out for 3 to 4 minutes.
When the dogs came through you could tell which were mouthing on the line and which were harking to other dogs.
Without being there we can only speculate and discuss.

[ANTHONY KERR]

Rabbitfever,
Minus 10 for c for pulling a out of the check area. Positive 25 for b for recovering and driving out the loss. I do not like dogs that bark while harking in for hunting because they can hurt forward progress sometimes, but Arha does not penalize for this unless they pull dogs out of the check area. That seems to be the case in this example.
Anthony

[WrongsideRandy]

sounds like dog c was compleatly out of the chase from the start. handler of dog c shouldve put his dog in the race and there wouldnt have been a question. if a and b were hammering and dog c didnt pull in to them then dog c doesnt belong in a trial. check dog b should be the only score.

I still say dog a and b could have blown up the track by having more foot then brains....or they wouldnt have left a hot check. I have seen competitive dogs just run to outrun each other with no clue where or what they are doing. I think a person would have to be their to make the proper call. Just my opinion.