explain this one

[warddog]

Yep, I gotta agree with what Randy posted. I find it funny as this is the very reason why I quit compitition coon hunting and have made this statement on this board many times. I was thinking of maybe getting into some beagle trials but since I've been reading the posts on here I can plainly see that it is the same ole stuff. Crying, cheating, going deaf and blind, buddy judging etc. Yeah, I've also heard all the crap that judges make mistakes and that is true as there's only been one perfect person and unfortunately that person doesn't judge beagle trials but some of the blatant stuff is no way a mistake or seeing things differently. I think I'll just hang onto my money as I wasted a lot of it on the coon dog trials and witnessed best friends become enemies over a stupid dog trial. I truely don't understand how people turn into animals when the competition starts. To argue and fight over a $3.00 trophy or plaque is about a stupid as I can imagine. Don't tell me these trophy's are worth more than $3.00 as that's all I could getr out of mine at the garage sale I sold them in. I find it halirious reading all this arguing and wanting to fight over a dog. Thanks for the laughs guys and I doubt I'll give up any of my hard earned money trialing for awhile but I will read a blow by blow description on here when I need a laugh.

[Wilson Creek Bill]

Danny,
I will have to agree with you too on this one. The first post seemed like any other post like this one that i have read. Its just a scenerio, most of the time its a true scenerio. But no names were mentioned or bad mouthing going on...so i didnt see the reason for the judge to get all defensive.. I sure didnt know who it was..didnt really care, but now everybody knows....JMO

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

sry you guys have a feud here seems a situation was posted then got it blowed up.i would have gave the backtrascker a mius for back tracking and a minus for pulling out of the check area as well ..giving a minus to b for pulling d is rediculous what happened to the pulling of b and c??glas i wasnt at this hunt if this was the way they judge!but hey ive sen worse lol.hopefully we learn from our mistakes and can move on!

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

Minus dog A for backtracking, minus dog A for pulling B & C out of the original check area. Four handlers saw the rabbit cross road and not come back. Call dead track or ask handlers if they wan't to score from check on NEW rabbit. End of story .it's cut & dry.

[danny vansickle]

THAK YOU VERY MUCH!!!AND YES THE DOG DID BACKTRACK THAT FAR,AND NO HE HAS YET TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.HE WAS MORE THAN HAPPY TO SLAM THE HE## OUTTA ME BUT NOW THAT THE TRUTH IS OUT HE HAS DISSAPEARED.THE TRUTH IS THEY DO HAVE SOME OF THE BEST DOGS OUT THERE,AND SOME OF THE BEST DOGS ARE OUT OF THEIR STOCK,BUT JUDGING IS A DIFFERENT STORY,TWO OF THE BEST GUYS THAT HEVE EVER CARRIED A SCORECARD ARE FROM THAT CLUB IN EARL MEAD AND LIL EARL.BUT JUST LIKE A GENTLEMAN THAT HOLDS POWER IN OUR SPORT TOLD ME WHEN I SPOKE WITH HIM ON THIS MATTER SAID,THERE ARE SOME GOOD JUDGES AND GOOD GUYS IN THESE CLUBS AND SOME BAD APPLES.TOO,BUT PEOPLE WILL GET TIRED OF THESE ANTICS AND QUIT ATTENDING HUNTS AT THESE CLUBS AND THEY WILL FADE AWAY AND THAT SUCKS FOR THE GOOD GUYS.TAKE THAT HOWEVER YOU LIKE BUT IT IS TRUE.I WANT TO THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR FEEDBACK THAT IS WHAT I WAS AFTER IN THE BEGINING,AND I AM SORRY THAT IT GOT AS UGLY AS IT DID.AHVE A NICE DAY AND HAPPY BEAGLING.

[danny vansickle]

STILL NO RESPONSE,NOW MAYBE THIS WILL SHOW SOME OF THOSE HATERS THAT I HAVE THAT I AM RIGHT WHEN I PROTEST OR GET UPSET.EVERYTIME SOMETHING HAS WENT DOWN THAT I HAVE GOTTEN UPSET OR WENT AS FAR AS TO PROTEST,THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HANDLER/JUDGE COMPETEING WITH ME IN THE CAST,I ALWAYS ASK THAT PERSON "AM I RIGHT"IF THEY SAY NO,I SHUT UP,IF THEY SAY YES,I WILL ASK THE JUDGE WHY HE DID THAT.IF THAT LABELS ME AS A PROTESTOR,WELL I WOULD RATHER BE A PROTESTOR THAN A PUSHOVER,IF YOU KNOW YOU GOT THE SHAFT,SPEAK UP,IF NOT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BUDDY JUDGING GOIN ON.THERE ARE A LOT OF darn GOOD JUDGES OUT THERE PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES,EVERY TIME I HAVE COMPLAINED OR WHAT EVER IT HAS BEEN A BLATAN ACT AND THERE USUALY IS ANOTHER HANDLER BACKING ME.I SPEND TOO MUCH MONEY AND TIME TO BE SENT HOME OVER THINGS LIKE WE HAVE DISCUSSED IN THIS POSTING.MAYBE NOW THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT SOMETIMES I AM RIGHT THEY WILL STOP SLAMING ME.I WAS SLMMED OVER A MALNURISHED DOG FOR A WEEK AND AFTER THOSE GUYS WHERE PROVED WRONG ,THAT IT WAS NOT MY DOG,THEY ALSO DISSAPEARED.

[grim]

i dont now danny that well ive met him a couple times and all i can say about him he has always treated me with respect and for those that say he like to say he got cheated if he doesnt win well he is only one out of god nows how many that say the same thing i couldnt list every bodys name on here that says they got cheated for one it would take to much time and i dont want to get into it but they are from all over the country thats the great thing about arha you can protest if you think some one made a bad call i have sided with the judge before over one of his protest and he left it at that he didnt go on about it any more after we decided.
Joey Salyers
Northeastern Ky Beagle Club

[JimM]

OK, from the judge's perspective:

The dogs ran most of the cast in a field of shoulder high weeds. The dogs had run fairly well, splitting 4 or 5 times and getting back together each time. There were rabbits running all over the field. One dog had some extra mouth, one was having trouble keeping up, and one dog clearly was the dominate dog.

Towards the end of the cast, a dog got a check and the dogs ran about 100 yards and crossed a road. By this time, I was soaking wet and pretty well wore out. Right after crossing the road, the dogs had a check. I looked at my watch and had less than 2 minutes left in the cast. A dog barked twice out in front of the check, but didn't go on. The pack then started to work back towards the road.

One dog barked 4 times and went about 20-25 feet. (I am sure everyone know that a dog must go 50 feet to get minused for backtracking). I thought to myself, "he is backtracking." He then stopped and all the dogs worked in the area. I decided if he went on I would minus him for backtracking. I was thinking about minusing him for pulling dogs out of the check area, but another dog went over to the side about 20 feet and busted out on the track. The dogs ran the last minute until the end of the cast.

I went back to the truck. When the handlers got back, I explained how I scored the last rabbit and told the score.

At this point Danny said, "That is bull. My dog always scores more than that. He was second in WV last week and he is fourth in Hound of the Year."

I told him if he didn't like it, just don't sign the card and go back to the clubhouse and protest.

He told me, "I know it won't do any good." Then walked back to his truck talking about cheating judges. The other handlers signed the card, thanked me for judging, and then we left.

On the way back to the clubhouse, I had to explain to two 12 year old boys that ran the winning dog, why they didn't get congratulated, and a grown man said they only won because of cheating. The boy running the winning dog had run him almost every day for the last 2 weeks to get him ready for the hunt. He was really excited about winning, but upset about the cast. The winning dog belonged to a good friend of mine. However, I have judged that same dog 5 or 6 times before and he didn't win.

Now, I never claimed to be a great judge. In fact, after 25 years of judging beagle field trials, I am really trying to retire from judging. Basically, all I was doing was trying to help my club.

In my first post, the harshness of my comments offended some people. I apologize for that. I am still angry about the comments made that day, and made behind my back since then, but that is no excuse.

[grim]

I'm a master of hounds and after hearing the judes side as well as dannys side I would have to go with the judes on this call.

[dogwhisperer]

you know all of this whining around is the exact reason we are at the hunts from day light till dark nobody wants a bad rep but then you have people saying they got cheated all the time and this makes them not want to judge. danny id say most people have heard you say it before I GOT CHEATED. your exact words were how does a world hunt winner not win a small hunt. Well first of all that should tell you something in its self... No i dont own a world hunt winner but i didnt go buy one either and i can win a small hunt. did you think you got cheated at the lil world when you went 0 for 14. im like you im not trying to slam anyone but COME ON if your not happy with arha l p then theres all other formats. if you chased dogs for an hour and was out of breath ,try keeping every thing in the cast straight. and last but not least i've had jim as a judge numerous times and feel he did a wonderful job in fact i would let him judge my cast with his dog in it Thats all i have to say about that

[danny vansickle]

HEY JIM,I SAID TO ANSWER TRUTHFUL,DID IT TAKE YOU THIS LONG TO THINK UP THAT BUNCH OF BULL?THE DOG BACKTRACKED OVER 50 YRDS.YOU IGNORED TWO ADULT FEILD TRIALERS WHEN YOU ASKED US IF IT CROSSED.THE RABBIT DID NOT CROSS,AFTER YOUR "GOOD BUDDIES"DOG QUIT BACKTRACKING,WE ASKED IF YOU WANTED TO CATCH THE DOGS AND MOVE THEM,YOU IGNORED US AND LET THEM HUNTOVER 4 MINUTES TILL MY DOG FINALY HIT THE NEW RABBIT,THEN YOU SAID,"I GUESS YOU WANT THAT CHECK" AND I SAID NO THAT IS NOT THE SAME RABBIT.AT THE TRUCK YOU MINUSED MY DOG CAUSE I ADMITTED IT WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL RABBIT.YOU GAVE ME A MINUS AND A CHECK AT THE SAME TIME,YEH I SAID MY DOG FINISHED FIFTH AT THE WV STATE HUNT AND I KNOW HE GOT MORE CHECKS THAN YOU GAVE HIM,AND SO DID THE GIRLS DOG FROM LFJ.YEH YOUR BUDDIES DOG DOMINAYED THE SCORE CARD BUT THAT IS ALL HE DOMINATED AND I KNOW WHY,BUDDY.THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU MET ME,MY OPINION IS THIS,YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH THAT BULL THAT DAY CAUSE THERE WAS A WOMEN,TWO KIDS,AND WHAT YOU THOUGHT WAS A A NEW GUY.YOU THOUGHT WRONG,I TOLD YOU AT THE TRUCK NOT TO PULL THAT CRAP AROUND ME,AND DON'T TREAT ME LIKE I AM STUPID.THAT IS WHY I GOT MAD,NOT CAUSE I DIDN'T WIN,I WAS MAD CAUSE YOU TRIED TO PULL THAT CRAP,AND THOUGHT I WOULD NOT CATCH IT.THAT IS WHY I WAS MAD.AND I WAS NOT WALKING BACK TO MY TRUCK TALKING ABOUT CHEATING JUDGES,I WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE CHEATING JUDGE.YOU WOULD NOT ANSWER FOR DAYS, NOW YOU COME BACK WITH LIES.TYPICAL.LETS GET TOGETHER WITH THE LADY FRON LFJ.LIKE SHE SAID ON THE WAY TO THE CAST,SHE KNEW WHO WAS GOING TO WIN BEFORE WE GOT THERE.YOUR BUDDIES DOG.TELL THE TRUTH JIM.YOU OPENED THAT CAN,DON'T TRY TO CLOSE IT WITH LIES.HAVE SOME DIGNITY MAN.THE FACT IS YOU GOT CAUGHT.THIS AINT THE FIRST TIME EITHER IS IT OL BUDDY.I KNOW YOU HAVE BUDDIES THAT MAY JUDGE ME IN THE FUTURE AND THIS MAY AFFECT MY CHANCES,THAT IS WHY I DID NOT MENTION YOUR NAME IN THE ORIGINAL POSTING.I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF I WAS RIGHT AND THE FEEDBACK SUPPORTS ME.I HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS,YOU MADE IT UGLY.SO BE IT.YOU KNOW YOU WAS IN THE WRONG THAT IS WHY IT HAS TOOK YOU THIS LONG TO REPLY.YOU STILL HAVEN'T SAID WHY YOU DID NOT MINUS YOUR GOOD BUDDIES DOG.LIKE YOU SAID AT THE TRUCK "I COULD HAVE MINUSED HIM BUT I DIDN'T".AND THAT IS ALL YOU COULD SAY.25 FEET?ALL PAVED ROADS ARE AT LEAST 20 FEET WIDE.THE DOG CAME OUT OF THE THICKET,ACROSS THE 20 FT ROAD AND WAY OUT INTO THE FIELD.25 FEET?COMMON JIM,YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.YOU NEED TO RETHINK YOUR MATH.YOU KNOW HOW FAR IT WAS BUT YOU WON,T ADMIT IT.OK NOW START THINKING UP A COME BACK,WE WILL BE WAITING.IF YOU CAN'T TELL THE HONEST TRUTH,THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING.THAT IS BETTER THAN THE LAST BUNCH OF BULL.I DID NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN,I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD ADMIT TO BEING THE JUDGE IN THAT FIASCO.AND THE BAD THING IS,THIS IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENED IN THAT CAST.DO YOU REALLY WANT TO AIR IT ALL OUT.IF SO WE CAN.

[danny vansickle]

DOG WISPERER,I DID NOT GO 0 FOR 14 PAL.I ONLY HAD BANDIT ,ROWDY,DOZER,AND A 16 MONTH OLD PUP.THAT EQUALS 4,GENIOUS.HOW DID YOU DO AT THE LIL WORLD?THE OTHER DOGS BELONGED TO PEOPLE THERE WITH ME AND SENT WITH US SO GET YOUR FACT STRAIT BEFORE YOU START SLAMMING.BUT IT IS NICE TO SEE THAT THERE IS SOMEONE KEEPING TRACK FOR ME,SO WHAT IF I BOUGHT A WORLD HUNT WINNER.AND WHEN WAS I SUPPOSED TO SAY HE COULD NOT WIN A SMALL HUNT?WHERE DID YOU WIN YOUR SMALL HUNT?ATLANTA?JUST JOKING.AT LEAST JIM USES HIS REAL NAME WISPERER.I HAVE A GOOD IDEA WHO YOU ARE,YOU ACT LIKE MY BUDDY TO MY FACE THAN SLAM ME UNDER A CODE NAME?IF YOU ARE WHO I THINK YOU ARE,THAT IS CALLED BEING 2 FACED.BUT MAYBE I AM WRONG.WHO ARE YOU.I HOPE YOU DON'T RUN TURBO DOGS CAUSE IF SO,I REALLY THOUGHT YOU WAS A STAND UP GUY.I HOPE I AM WRONG,THE PERSON I AM THINKING OF IS A NICE GUY.HE WOULDN'T STOOP THAT LOW.AT LEAST I HOPE NOT.

[danny vansickle]

NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT I DID SAY TO YOU"I MUST HAVE THE WORST LUCK,GO OUT AND BUY A WORLD HUNT WINNER AND STILL CAN'T WIN A SMALL HUNT",I WAS CUTTING MYSELF DOWN JOKINGLY,THOSE WHERE MY WORDS RIGHT BEFORE I TOLD YOU THAT YOU HAD A NICE HOUND AND I THINK YOU SHOULD WIN THE CAST WE WAS IN.I WAS TRYING TO BE SOCIABLE.WELL EXCUSE ME,I THOUGHT YOU WAS A GOOD GUY,JON.WHEN I TALKED TO YOU AT THE LIL WORLD I SAID"WE WENT 0 FOR 12".I MENT MY BUDDIES AND THE DOGS WE BROUGHT.ROWDY TIED FOR FIRST IN HIS CAST,THE JUDGE GAVE IT TO THE OTHER DOG,DOZER LOST BY 15 POINT,215 TO 200.HE DID GOOD,200 POINTS.BANDIT LOST TO A GOOD LIL CHECK DOG 75 TO 25.AND MY PUP WAS SECOND IN HIS CAST,125 TO 75.CAME CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR.THOUGHT I WOULD GIVE YOU AN UPDATE SINCE YOU ARE KEEPING TRACK.WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW HOW I DID AT RIPLEY TODAY.MAYBE I WILL START POSTING MY RESULTS EACH WEEK FOR YOU AND THE REST OF THE VANSICKLE HATERS CLUB.MAN YOU GUYS KILL ME.NOT ONE TIME DID I SAY I GOT CHEATED AT THE LIL WORLD.THE JUDGES DID A GOOD JOB.ACTUALY,THE GUY THAT BEAT MY PUP,HE SAID HE FELT THAT MY PUP SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A FEW MORE CHECKS.HE WAS A STAND UP GUY..YOU GUYS LOVE TO SLAM ME,AND I TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT.PEOPLE THAT ACTUALY"KNOW"ME WILL TELL YOU,AS THEY HAVE ON THIS FORRUM,I AM A GOOD GUY,GROW UP.I CAN'T BELEIVE YOU MAN.I DON,T KNOW YOU VERY WELL,BUT I THOUGHT YOU WAS A GOOD GUY.YOU ARE INTITALED TO YOUR OPINION OF JIM,BUT DON'T TWIST MY WORDS.

[carn]

hey popsickle how many cast have you judged?the first thing you need to do is read the rule book lets say three or four times get yourself a couple good old rabbit dogs and fallow them around now this well be the hard part keep you mouth closed and just watch them four or five pair of chaps and two pair of boots later you should be ready to trial.

[Wilson Creek Bill]

Hey boys i got a good idea. Just step out side, duke it out like men, stop acting like school boys, and get over it so people can enjoy hunts. I love field trialing, but after reading this post, makes me want to shoot my dogs and burn my registration papers.. Good grief.