what do you breed for?

[full circle kennel]

this is a question to everyone. lately this has been a topic of discussion around our running friends. having attended multiple trials in almost all formats nkc,ukc and akc i am really wondering what people are breeding for. i have seen beagles that were carried to be set on track and then ran a decent rabbit,beagles that are so wide in the check area they really have no idea where the rabbit went.<100yds> off the point of loss within the minute. dogs with loose mouths and dogs that lie and backtrack. i really cant understand this. have the field trials promoted inferior breeding as a result of "fitting the rulebook" sytle of hounds. I WANT YOUR OPINION ! please NO bashing of the registries, i just want your thoughts on this!!!!!! btw, i have seen some nice hounds too at the trails its just the bad ones are showing up on a more regualr basis.

[Rick G]

I find that no one breeds for brain power as much. A hound can have it all, nose, speed, conformation, but if it does not have the brains to put it all together, all those good traits are for nothing. Alot breed for the current fad, or for the rules of a certain registry. More and more we see the beagle being bred farther away from its hunting dog roots.
You have to look at your dogs as a whole before breeding them, and not be kennel blind. In my opinion, mouthy, ghoast trailing, pottering, back tracking, etc are signs of a dumb dog period! But guess what? Their owners still breed them, for the simple fact of trying to make a dollar. The other highest percentage of why they breed them is cause the breeders really do believe they have a good hound. Rule number one in beagling----- You must first be smarter than the dog---- If this rule would be enforced, I'd bet there would be alot better dogs out there, and alot less breeders! Great topic!

[jonnyringo]

I think it is evident that many breed for the field trial titiles and not for the hunters beagle. Fortunately in spite of that the beaglers have not destroyed the beagle genetics that are inherint but in time we may lose the greatest attribute of all and that is hunt/jump. I am very lucky to have a bitch that hunts harder than any beagle that I have ever owned and she is my kennel foundation. I was fortunate to watch Joe Diebold's Lil Dutchman dog and he hunts pretty darn hard for a male. Jump ability and hunt is what I see that is missing in many dogs including ones that I have owned. I currently own a pup sired by Dutch and have my fingers crossed that he will hunt like his sire. If a dog can't jump a rabbit then he won't run a rabbit unless you jump it for him (like a lot of field trialers do). I personally don't own dogs to be kicking brush piles.
Additionally, I agree that many are breeding in order to make a quick dollar which is unfortunate.

[mybeagles]

I have watched the trend in field trials the last 10 years and have judged 15 or more AKC licensed trials.....Everything has been based on speed and we are finally reaping the results of that....All formats in all registries have sped up the dogs and the cleanest running check dogs continually get sent home being told "they didnt get enough of the front". This resulted in people not attending trials anymore; obvious by the entries today vs 10 years ago....others bred for more speed in order to be competetive.......

In defense of the judges being one myself, you have to judge the dogs they put down.....With emphasis on finishing a dog before its 2 or 3, judges get struck with an entire field under 3 years old with some even less than a year old. An environment where every dog could be picked up for fault at one point during the trial.

Speaking from experience, when you take a seasoned gun dog with med/fast speed and good check work to a trial, that dog ultimately keeps the race going and makes the fast dogs look much better than they are.

I believe fads will come and go, and there will always be those who seek the trophy above all else. To answer the question of the thread, Im looking for continuity of the race.....what dog keeps the rabbit going the best....I love speed as well as anyone, but will not sacrifice too much control. Finding a dog with speed and control is what Ill be breeding for, but these hounds are VERY RARE, but I enjoy the challenge......

[jonnyringo]

Speaking from experience, when you take a seasoned gun dog with med/fast speed and good check work to a trial, that dog ultimately keeps the race going and makes the fast dogs look much better than they are.
.

Can't agrue with that.

And to answer the question I breed for hunt/jump or will be the next time my bitch is bred. I just love a hard hunting jump dog above anything else.

[SilverZuk]

I don't breed because I don't feel I have a dog worthy of breeding.
I have one female that is a hopeful.
If she keeps going the way she is going now, I will breed her in a few years.

I have a few sires in mind for the breeding if they are still alive when I am ready.
Both dogs have to be exactly what I want in my dogs, or I am not breeding.

I did breed my male to my neighbor's female last fall.

[full circle kennel]

my beagles, i like where your head is. your answer is what my post is about. thanks. hunt and jump are of utmost importance as well.

[Chain Gang]

(IMHO)Main problem your seeing is too many tailgate handlers with no clue what is happening during training sessions other than they are barking and running. Lets enter a trial and see how they do.

[mybeagles]

With rabbit populations dwindling in several areas, pen running is becoming more and more popular.....

Guys drop off dogs in pen on way to work and pick them up in the evening.....In turn there dogs are rock hard and hold up well in trials. These dogs dont get much observation time, and the owners are always curious what the judge has to say, because they dont know themselves......Ultimately if it makes FC, it goes up for stud.....thats what many use to determine what they breed to.....am I wrong?

I know of a handfull of FC's that the owners will not show in the field. Imagine having a FC and be afraid to show it off......

[SMITTY1233]

I have watched the trend in field trials the last 10 years and have judged 15 or more AKC licensed trials.....Everything has been based on speed and we are finally reaping the results of that....All formats in all registries have sped up the dogs and the cleanest running check dogs continually get sent home being told "they didnt get enough of the front". This resulted in people not attending trials anymore; obvious by the entries today vs 10 years ago....others bred for more speed in order to be competetive.......

In defense of the judges being one myself, you have to judge the dogs they put down.....With emphasis on finishing a dog before its 2 or 3, judges get struck with an entire field under 3 years old with some even less than a year old. An environment where every dog could be picked up for fault at one point during the trial.

Speaking from experience, when you take a seasoned gun dog with med/fast speed and good check work to a trial, that dog ultimately keeps the race going and makes the fast dogs look much better than they are.

I believe fads will come and go, and there will always be those who seek the trophy above all else. To answer the question of the thread, Im looking for continuity of the race.....what dog keeps the rabbit going the best....I love speed as well as anyone, but will not sacrifice too much control. Finding a dog with speed and control is what Ill be breeding for, but these hounds are VERY RARE, but I enjoy the challenge......

That is the most honest post I have seen on here in a very long time... Finding a dog that has great Nose, Hunt, Drive and Control are few a far between. You have to try to find the faults that you can best live with.... For me I can't take a dog that runs full speed ahead over the end check, back to line repeat, repeat, repeat repeat..... I have never understood why you go to a field trial and it seems like 100 yard race breakdown, 100 yard race breakdown... Work em tally ho 100 yard break down.... I have been to a few trials on the outside where the running was smoother than this, but only a few....

[KYHunter79]

Jump ability and hunt is what I see that is missing in many dogs including ones that I have owned. I currently own a pup sired by Dutch and have my fingers crossed that he will hunt like his sire. If a dog can't jump a rabbit then he won't run a rabbit unless you jump it for him (like a lot of field trialers do). I personally don't own dogs to be kicking brush piles.

I couldn't agree more.

I hunt beagles to kill rabbits over. I'm not a trialer. I want a big that will get in the brush/briars/fencerows and push a rabbit out. The speed is of very little importance to me. As long as the dog is a good enough track dog to push the rabbit back to me if I don't kill it on the jump then that is good enough for me.

[THALL]

I have watched the trend in field trials the last 10 years and have judged 15 or more AKC licensed trials.....Everything has been based on speed and we are finally reaping the results of that....All formats in all registries have sped up the dogs and the cleanest running check dogs continually get sent home being told "they didnt get enough of the front". This resulted in people not attending trials anymore; obvious by the entries today vs 10 years ago....others bred for more speed in order to be competetive.......

In defense of the judges being one myself, you have to judge the dogs they put down.....With emphasis on finishing a dog before its 2 or 3, judges get struck with an entire field under 3 years old with some even less than a year old. An environment where every dog could be picked up for fault at one point during the trial.

Speaking from experience, when you take a seasoned gun dog with med/fast speed and good check work to a trial, that dog ultimately keeps the race going and makes the fast dogs look much better than they are.

I believe fads will come and go, and there will always be those who seek the trophy above all else. To answer the question of the thread, Im looking for continuity of the race.....what dog keeps the rabbit going the best....I love speed as well as anyone, but will not sacrifice too much control. Finding a dog with speed and control is what Ill be breeding for, but these hounds are VERY RARE, but I enjoy the challenge......

That is the most honest post I have seen on here in a very long time... Finding a dog that has great Nose, Hunt, Drive and Control are few a far between. You have to try to find the faults that you can best live with.... For me I can't take a dog that runs full speed ahead over the end check, back to line repeat, repeat, repeat repeat..... I have never understood why you go to a field trial and it seems like 100 yard race breakdown, 100 yard race breakdown... Work em tally ho 100 yard break down.... I have been to a few trials on the outside where the running was smoother than this, but only a few....

i was just talking about this yesterday. i love speed, but speed without nose and brains is worthless.
ihate a dog who can't keep a rabbit moving, but you need to jump one to get a chace to keep it going. i breed for hunt first.

[gus]

It depends on your goal. If selling beagles is your goal then be sure they have Branko, Ranger Dan or one of the other famous dogs up close and beaglers will drive half way accross the country to pick up a worthless dog and pay top dollar.

Depending on the federation, if you are a trialer, you need to be sure the dog can stay in front of the pack or never get six inces off the line.
Gundogs stay at home. They have no chance.

That may be extreme but it's pretty close.

Smitty is right on.

[Tim L]

We breed for foot... foot=gears to explode and speed to track ... the brains to handle and hunt like a champ. Mainly fun hunting for what we like. When they trial well and suit other people it is just a bonus. IMO without brains they have no hunt or ability to work the hard checks and/or change gears when they need to... so brains and smiles is what I breed for!

[Tim L]

We breed for foot... foot=gears to explode and speed to track ... the brains to handle and hunt like a champ. Mainly fun hunting for what we like. When they trial well and suit other people it is just a bonus. IMO without brains they have no hunt or ability to work the hard checks and/or change gears when they need to... so brains and smiles is what I breed for!