what do you breed for?

jlboomer · Post by **jlboomer** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:44 pm

I breed for Hunt, Nose, Brains, Speed, Looks and in that order.

Bill Mills · Post by **Bill Mills** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:23 pm

I really like this post,alot of good opinions .As for me I breed for hunt and jump first,speed second.The fastest dog in the world is useless if it cant find its own rabbit.I like speed to and my dogs are fast but the hunt and jump has to be there. Alot of guys dont breed quality bitches and wonder why the pups arent worldbeaters.The stud is only half of the picture,that female has to be worthy of breeding .If she dont hunt guess what the pups probabably wont either.

burbba · Post by **burbba** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:28 pm

I think it depends....

1. The first thing you NEED is a jump dog. If you cant jump the rabbit its hard to run/kill it. Not that killing is everything, but if the rabbit isnt jumped, its hard to run it. Hunt falls in this same category to me. I see all the time "hard hunting" but can the dog JUMP the rabbit? Hunting for it and getting him running are 2 different things.

2. Brains, you have to keep him moving, and keep him moving as smoothly as possible. Nose/line control can fall somewhere in this category, but is far different than brains. A big nose dog may not be a good check dog. A good check dog may not have a big nose, just covers more ground. A line control dog may lose the track, but he has to know where to look.

3. Speed... speed is ONLY an issue with your individual pack. If you run med speed dogs, dont breed for extra speed, or you'll disrupt your pack. And vice versa. You can breed to step up a pack, but you have to step it up in increments, or you'll have a messed up pack.

To me, what you breed for, or look to add, depends on what you have and what you need to better your own pack. You dont want just a pack of 4 jump dogs with no track dogs, or a pack of 4 thinkers with no jumpers... You need a nice mix. No single dog can do it all and do it all perfectly (contrary to popular advertisement). Find a nice mix and you'll see more rabbits and keep them running.

Bill Mills · Post by **Bill Mills** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:53 pm

To me, what you breed for, or look to add, depends on what you have and what you need to better your own pack. You dont want just a pack of 4 jump dogs with no track dogs, or a pack of 4 thinkers with no jumpers... You need a nice mix. No single dog can do it all and do it all perfectly (contrary to popular advertisement). Find a nice mix and you'll see more rabbits and keep them running.

I dont agree.If I cant hunt a dog alone and shoot rabbits I dont want the dog.I gun hunt my trial dogs and they must do it all, jump and run rabbits.I dont want a dog that is just a track dog are just a jump dog.They have to be good at it all.Sure some dogs will be better at one thing or the other but as far as specialists in a pack I dont like that .A dog that can run the hair off a rabbit but cant jump one wont do very well at the trials nor very well hunting ,same goes for one that can jump one but cant run it.A dog should be able to run solo real well or I wont breed it.

full circle kennel · Post by **full circle kennel** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:00 am

Ok I hear alot alot about jump and alot about speed.But a question we often discuss is how important is line control. I have seen fast and med dogs alike that could jump rabbits.But what i dont see alot of that puzzels me is alot of fast dogs that have good enough linecontrol keep the rabbit coming around and around kind of working together to keep the chase alive instead of just trying to out run the dog or dogs its with to a loss or a check . So as we keep trying to breed the fastest dog we can find instead the fastest most line control dog we can find are we destroying the dogs purpose. I personally will give up some speed for line control.Due to the fact that when it gets cold and snows or senting isnt that great no matter how many they jump the dogs with more line control and big noses still make it seem pretty easy to keep him coming around and around and around. Your thoughts please

bill (flint river ) · Post by **bill (flint river )** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:19 am

Bill Mills wrote:
To me, what you breed for, or look to add, depends on what you have and what you need to better your own pack. You dont want just a pack of 4 jump dogs with no track dogs, or a pack of 4 thinkers with no jumpers... You need a nice mix. No single dog can do it all and do it all perfectly (contrary to popular advertisement). Find a nice mix and you'll see more rabbits and keep them running.

.A dog that can run the hair off a rabbit but cant jump one wont do very well at the trials nor very well hunting ,.

well i like to have in my pack dogs to do something alittle better then the rest. and as for a dog that cant jump a rabbit but runs it hard when up. is a false statement there is a tone of dogs that have won alot on the ability to run a rabbit .not jump a rabbit. in a perfect world that is ideal. but in a working mans world is very difficult to have a 4 pack of hounds that u can solo alot to build the mechnics. i like 3 to 4 dog packs. but also have a buisness to run and a family to feed. so solo time in the winter is impossible for me.

jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:48 am

Pat,

I like line control and speed both but not one without the other. Again, jump and hunt are what I look for first, then line control, then foot.... in that order but I will not keep too slow of a dog or a cold trailing mouthy dog.

The dog does not have to be married to the line but needs to run with decent line control. If a dog has any king of foot at all he will generally over-run a bit but if he puts the brakes on and makes the 90 degree turn in short order I am fine with that too. Don't mind them running with their heads up if they can handle it.

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. · Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:55 am

Brains and more Brains, The ability to not only grub and gear down but the brains too find the point of loss and assurance to recover his own loss.
Speed is pretty but with out the mechanics too gear down , dont mean much too me. Also line control is essential without it, they are worthless.

Too much nose for me is a touchy subject i personally like tighter mouth dogs , As i dont see much snow but plenty of heat and humitity. As long as they are honest with mouth , are they really tight?

Big nose dogs are not mouthy too me , just hard too come by.Big nose dogs are different than mouthy dogs just for the record. Also bred for bottom end all day dogs , several lines burn up way too quick for me .
Without a long wick they are also worthless in my eyes. Jmho

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:34 am

If you are running a lot in a pen that has many bare dirt or mud roads and paths like I do, you need dogs that can either walk it thru those spots which is not easy with the mud on the rabbit's feet, or move out and recover the line. Also the rabbits that are run a lot learn what works to get rid of the dogs. That is usually a long double back on its trail. You can stand around and watch them do it. Also they will squat in light cover and let the dogs run right by them and then go back the way they came. You can see how this might cause problems for the dogs or make someone think they are backtracking. This was not too much of a problem with the old brace trial dogs because all you needed was about 50 feet of line and you could spend all day on it.

mybeagles · Post by **mybeagles** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:49 am

A guy owns a pack of 4 dogs and they all run well together with good speed and decent control................put those same dogs in a trial with all new dogs and a loss of comfort level and all of a sudden dogs are cutting and slashing all over the woods trying to reestablish pack dominance. The 2-4 hours that they run isnt adequate time to sort it all out, so everyone goes home blaming the other guys dog for the rough running......

I know I have had dogs that run real clean day after day of running. Enter them in a trial and see them follow suit.....I attribute this to two things.....too many young dogs, I would be the first to support a rule requiring a dog to be 2 years old before it could be trialed. The second is breeding.....dogs revert back to there breeding, and if fast rough dogs are in the pedigree it eventually comes out (trials seem to bring it out)....thats not to mention all the complications with inbreeding......

SMITTY1233 · Post by **SMITTY1233** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:22 am

My thought on what I look for in a dog is this:

1. Nose
2. Brains to control that nose
3. Desire/endurance/Hunt- Dog that is a tireless hunter and can go all day everyday if need be.
4. Control- I want them on the line and in the check
5. handling/behavior- I want a dog that hunts for me, when I let them out of the box and off the tailgate I want them to know they are hunting for my pleasure and they are to check in between runs and hunt within the proximity of where I am. I hunt hare a lot and that may mean 200-300 yards out at times but when I call if they aren't running I want them coming my way.... I can't stand a dog that hunts for themselves, it seems you spend more time looking for that dog then you do hunting....

Bill Mills · Post by **Bill Mills** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:23 pm

Bill (Flint River wrote)

well i like to have in my pack dogs to do something alittle better then the rest. and as for a dog that cant jump a rabbit but runs it hard when up. is a false statement there is a tone of dogs that have won alot on the ability to run a rabbit .not jump a rabbit

Bill I agree that time management doesnt always Work out for soloing dogs all the time,I think that for a dog to be as good as he can be he needs some time to learn things the hard way, alone...And at the UKC trials I have seen some dogs that didnt jump many rabbits and they dont win much,same goes for speed and drive ,if your dog is to slow,4th line dont cut it,If hes crazy and just races and misses a line that dont cut it either.Same goes for hunting with me .If a dog cant do those things hes not my kind of hunting dog either.I know some guys build a pack and each dog has its place. For myself I want a dog that has all the tools.One that hunts hard and jumps rabbits,has foot,and has the brains to handle the line.

bill (flint river ) · Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:46 pm

bill i agree. but i have seen some really good hounds run the hair of a rabbit. then to turn around and drop her by her self and nothing, soon as u droped another hound she would rock and roll. drove me crazy and i gave her away, guess the breeding.

pace setter.

i like using patch hounds, with branko breed hounds. u get that grittty i will hurt my self style to find that rabbit, and the other side u get more line control and a tighter working check hound. close in speed and sure does sound great when it works the way the plain was made.lol

TOUCHSTONEBGLS · Post by **TOUCHSTONEBGLS** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:15 am

I don't breed according to any registry format. Both hunt and physical structure are equally important to me. Search and jump are important. Have not yet seen whole litters of great jump dogs. Seems like some pups are just better at this than others. Have a 1 yr old pup that was hitting the brush hard as young pup even before she knew what a rabbit was. She has the best search at 1 yr of age. Think it is genetic rather than learned. 2 other pups in the litter were not good jump dogs until they were started running rabbits and then they got more intense about finding them. I like to be around my dogs more than many. They spend some time in the house, jump in the truck with me when I run short errands, go to shows, etc. That all makes temperament very important to me. I want decent speed with line control. If a dog overruns where the rabbit turns or doubles back he better shut off the barking and have the breaks on at the point of the loss. Want the dog to get back to the point of loss and work from there so that he doesn't miss part of the line by swinging wide out of the check. Seems to keep the rabbit moving in a truer circle. Don't want dogs that bark when it is not a hot runnable track. When a dog barks I find a spot to watch from and then stay there until it circles. I need to trust there is a rabbit on the move if the dogs open.

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:23 am

I breed for a dog that can run a rabbit as fast as possible with as few losses as possible in any conditions.

I like a good jump dog with good conformation and a good mouth but if it can't do what I listed above I don't want it.