WHAT DO YOU THINK(POLL)

SAWBRIAR · Post by **SAWBRIAR** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:07 pm

what would yall think about a new association or federation to hold akc trials under. you know for fast to upper speed dogs that can run clean and do it right and to promote a dog that hunts (no tally ho'ers or tally ho sticks) the one's the can run on the line and get it done ( gost trackers +back trackers, swingers and skirters pickem up) .just a thought but i'd love to see it happen i know i've talked to a few that would like to see it as well. who knows it mite just be in the near future. names for it, what do ya think ( MASON DIXON GUN DOG FERERATION or MASON DIXON GUN DOG ASSOCIATION) kinda catchy ant it, just thought i'd throw it out there and let some of you guys chaw around on it and maybe someone mite want to play around with this idea get the ball rolling it just takes a little thought and effort to make it happen. let me know what yall think

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. · Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:19 pm

Sounds like the Midwest to me.Just remember this fast dogs have hard time being the cleanist. They can run great but most are still harehound breeding being forced to run cottaintails. Jmho

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:42 pm

I agree with Jimmy....any good judge in the midwest should be looking for that type of hound anyways.

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:47 pm

Those are my thoughts exactly Jimmie. It does sound like the Mid-West. I do understand the "tally ho" thing being a problem with promoting a hard hunting dog, but if they didn't do that it would take a week to hold a trial in most places where there is limited game. Most judges will pick a dog up for not hunting though. If you could guarantee plenty of game, then I don't have a problem with turning the dogs loose and making the handlers just stand back and watch them go. That's just not the case in most places though.

klrconcrete · Post by **klrconcrete** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:54 pm

Every other organization and format came about with intent to promote "the true hunting dog" and look what you have, guess I dont see the need to reinvent the wheel!

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:23 pm

I have attended a few AKC Mid West trials and alot of UKC trials. I don't like the fact that the Hounds aren't responsible for jumping there own rabbits in AKC hunts but Thats why there are more than 1 format to run a Hound in. The UKC promotes a Jump dog no dought about that but the AKC SPO format promotes a cleaner running Hound(IMO). The Judges see much more of the chase in the AKC and judge on hound work rather that a point system for getting a line,but if the AKC would put Jump into the Judgeing it would promote a more complete hound.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:27 pm

Tom, We usually agree on things, but I dont see where UKC promotes a Jumpdog. I thought you got the most points for 1st strike? I havent went on that many UKC trials, but what I have seen the dog that strikes 1st only jumps the rabbit half the time.

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:36 pm

mike crabtree wrote:Tom, We usually agree on things, but I dont see where UKC promotes a Jumpdog. I thought you got the most points for 1st strike? I havent went on that many UKC trials, but what I have seen the dog that strikes 1st only jumps the rabbit half the time.

Mike they have 3 minutes if they strike first they get first strike and the points,I do like the strike-jump system the ARHA uses the judge has the say weather a jump is rewarded. Just saying the hound gets rewarded for jumpimg a Rabbit where in the AKC they don't. There are no perfect formats where we as Judges can see everything,but I like a format that rewards jump,but I also real like the clean running hounds I've been seeing in AKC hunts.

SAWBRIAR · Post by **SAWBRIAR** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:38 pm

well if you guys don't see the point in the way the first post read then what about the clubs that can hold akc hunts that want to be in a federation or a association and the ones that are already out there just ant what they are looking for or are not even a option, just another thought ,it's not always just about the dogs ?????????? hum a hum

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:44 pm

Tom, I like scoring of the line that UKC does, but it just isnt practical on strip-jobs.

I like UKC's format for the most part, except the competitiveness within the cast. It is no doubt meant to bring back the best dog, but I have seen otherwise around here.

I didnt mean to make this a debate, but it must be my nature.

When are we running dogs?

TOUCHSTONEBGLS · Post by **TOUCHSTONEBGLS** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:17 pm

A great search and jump dog that doesn't just follow around with the other dogs does get credit for most of his jumps. If you have a group of dogs that just follow around with each other then the lucky jump can get stolen. Hunt desire and strong search and jump are required for a top UKC competitor. I can't even imagine wasting my time with a dog or especially with a group of dogs that require me to go jump rabbits for them. I would think most rabbit hunters would like the idea for the new AKC format!

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:38 pm

Touchstone, If another dog is on the clock and your dog Jumps the rabbit who gets credit?

jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:11 am

mike crabtree wrote:Tom, We usually agree on things, but I dont see where UKC promotes a Jumpdog. I thought you got the most points for 1st strike? I havent went on that many UKC trials, but what I have seen the dog that strikes 1st only jumps the rabbit half the time.

BINGO!!!!
Good point.

BlueGrass Boy 1 · Post by **BlueGrass Boy 1** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:13 am

ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO TRY AND START A NEW ASSOCIATION? I THOUGHT YOU GUYS HAD THE PLANS IN THE WORKS TO BECOME A MID WEST CLUB. IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE DIFFERENT FORMATS TO RUN DIFFERENT STYLES OF HOUNDS IN, BUT A LOT OF TIMES YOU ONLY GET A FEW ENTRIES DUE TO NEW FORMATS AND WEARY PEOPLE WANTING TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FORMAT BEFORE THEY RUN OR ENTER A HOUND. THIS WOULD SEEM TO MAKE THE CLUB/ASSOCIATION START OUT IN THE NEGATIVE SLOT ON FINANCES, BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO SUPPORT THE NEARBY AKC & UKC CLUBS AND IF YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE A NEW ASSOCIATION THAT WOULD PROSPER, I WOULD SAY GO FOR IT. I'M SURE THAT WITH SOME TIME AND PLANNING IT COULD POSSIBLY BE A START TO SOMETHING GREAT. WHO KNOWS? JUST MY OPINION. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!

thornie · Post by **thornie** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:45 am

Mike and Johnny Ringo,
I will try and answer your question. In UKC if a dog opens, it is struck in 1st. If he is the only dog to open and does not give any mouth then the clock is started on him and if the 3 minutes gets him, he is minused his strike points. Dogs are awarded strike points only when struck in, even if your dog jumps the rabbit after first dog has been struck in,2nd. No jump point awarded. I'm not a person that complains alot about the rules, but I see rules in all formats, that I don't like, but all you can do is send this to a rules committe and hope that there are enough people that has the same opions to get it changed. One of my peeves is a dog that runs deer, and someone brings a dog to a hunt and brags how his dog strung a cast out last week in a hunt and it happens again. But the format does not penalize a dog for running deer. My opion is either clean them up or write them up.