why would anyone breed an unproven hound.??

[tommyg]

JMO--- I realy don't like these type of disscussions but A paper breeding is just that a paper breeding. Yes you'll get some good ones and some bad ones,but breeding a proven hound to a proven hound will have better results. Where do you think some of the Old Great ones came from---bet they all weren't line bred,all this out crossing had to start at sometime. I see alot of guys crossing to Cottentail blood to get the check ability or some other trait they offer and alot of times with great results. I look at what a hound has to offer good and bad and hope they throw the good and HOPE they don't throw the bad. I don't use Brood Bitches--if they can't run a rabbit the right way I won't breed to them.

[jonnyringo]

JMO--- I realy don't like these type of disscussions but A paper breeding is just that a paper breeding. Yes you'll get some good ones and some bad ones,but breeding a proven hound to a proven hound will have better results. Where do you think some of the Old Great ones came from---bet they all weren't line bred,all this out crossing had to start at sometime. I see alot of guys crossing to Cottentail blood to get the check ability or some other trait they offer and alot of times with great results. I look at what a hound has to offer good and bad and hope they throw the good and HOPE they don't throw the bad. I don't use Brood Bitches--if they can't run a rabbit the right way I won't breed to them.

True only in part. The old timers kept the entire litters and culled vigorously. That is the correct way to outcross. Today, people put them up on the net and ask $250.00 for an unproven cross. Or trade them off at age one and a half with the field champion pedigrees as a selling point. There are proven crosses out there. I particularly like the Blueback/Branko cross and many guys have had success making this cross. I have a pup now that is from this cross and I like what I see at age five months already. He is going to be a good one.

[danny vansickle]

i have a buddy,he is a die hard branko man,and everytime he breeds he says,"look at the pedigree",don't get me wrong,when i breed a dog it better impress me or i won't do it,it doesn't have to win a world hunt or carry a title,just have the right tools in place that when i breed her to a male it will work,when i look at a dogs pedigree i am not impressed my the names or tiltles i know what that particular blood line can contribute,for instance,northway spur = hard hunt and endurance,i don't care about the tiltles,it is the genetics,prime time= line control and drive,turbo= foot and punch out of the check,and as long as the female has these traits i am looking for i breed her,why wait till she is 5 or 6 and made champion.

example,my dog dozer,ton of foot,punch out of the check,he lacks hard hunt,so when someone is wanting to breed i tell them,to breed a hard hunter and i suggest northway blood,not because of the tiltes the line has won,i do it cause northway blood throws hunt into the pups.

[BBOARDING3]

I just say breed what you like, to what you like, to get what you want..

[bill (flint river )]

i disagree ED. a proven hound bread to a proven outcross hound has for me always produced rabbit hounds. i think u have to craddle a line bread or inbread hound and cull hard. because any bad traits will be exploded.

and i do have a huge promblem with guys using brood bitches that are never started. if u start a femal pup and lets say run her till she is 1.5 and then us for only a brood bitch i dont have a promblem with that. i run all my femals and never consider keeping one for just breeding.

[BIG AL]

I remember a discussion some friends were having about coonhounds. This one fellow was talking about his hound and that his hounds daddy had done this and won that and blah blah blah.

One of my buddies said that I don't care what a dogs daddy did I want to know what THIS dog can do. Then he said "My daddy had a 10" you know what but I took after my mom".

[rock pushin rabbit hunter]

I would rather breed to a grade bitch that knows how to smoke a rabbit track than a brood bitch with a pretty set of papers that doesnt know what a rabbit is.Iknow alot of what makes a good dog is what you run it with and how you train it,but if the parents of the pup are good hounds,your odds of getting a good dog are much better.If you want to breedto UNPROVEN brood bitches fine,but your pups will probably end up on the lab truck or at a dog trade somewhere.Oh well,youve made youre money and thats all that matters now isnt it,congradulatiouns.

[Bells Run Kennels]

I don't understand why people on here are always asking for the truth and YET will not say what they really mean!!! I mean if beagler A has a dog and Beagler B does this and that and we make up all kins of stories....Thats a Bunch of CRAP....BE honest and state the beagler's name and live with the backlash or simply keep your comments to yourself. All of these type posts do nothing but sling inuendos and mud and make for hard feelings and I am SURE each person involved in a deal have different ways to see how it turns out. I learned a long time ago that Breeding the best to the best doesn't always work but it sure as hell makes it easier. Now WHO determines who has the best?? is it trials?? or magazines or chat rooms??? No i must judge what i like cause I feed them and I keep them.

[jonnyringo]

i disagree ED. a proven hound bread to a proven outcross hound has for me always produced rabbit hounds. i think u have to craddle a line bread or inbread hound and cull hard. because any bad traits will be exploded.

and i do have a huge promblem with guys using brood bitches that are never started. if u start a femal pup and lets say run her till she is 1.5 and then us for only a brood bitch i dont have a promblem with that. i run all my femals and never consider keeping one for just breeding.

Bill,
First, I never said outcrossing will not produce good dogs. I said culling will need to be practiced if it is performed.
Culling is the hardest thing for most beaglers to do and I think culling should be done whether line breeding or outcrossing. If you look at how genetics works I honestly think a breeder has a better chance line breeding than outcrossing.
I am not against outcrossing but it needs to be performed selectively with an end goal in mind. In fact, I am planning an outcross. I already have an outcross male and plan to keep two outcross females from a future breeding. If all turns out as planned, I'll breed them way down the road which will then be linebreeding (the male and female pups from two different litters will have the same sire and two different Branko line bred bitches). Thus, the Blueback/Branko infusion will be established. Long term plan that I am hoping sets my line into motion. From there I will outcross as required but primarily linebreed.
Bottom line is breed how you choose. That's what makes the world go around.
Take care,
Ed

[ron]

I have a question as far as breeding. What % of a litter will actually produce good gun or field trial dogs? I mean the type of dog that would never be for sale. Most people who beagle know of the Branko dogs. Whether you like them or not they are a proven breed but on the other hand there are also a lot of them out there. There are an awful lot of dogs and pups for sale and was just curious on what your thoughts are as far as a litter of pups and the odds on how many will actually be a step above the rest.

[jonnyringo]

I have a question as far as breeding. What % of a litter will actually produce good gun or field trial dogs? I mean the type of dog that would never be for sale. Most people who beagle know of the Branko dogs. Whether you like them or not they are a proven breed but on the other hand there are also a lot of them out there. There are an awful lot of dogs and pups for sale and was just curious on what your thoughts are as far as a litter of pups and the odds on how many will actually be a step above the rest.

I'd say your chances when line breeding (proven lines) are very good to have many keepers and few culls. For every cull there would be six keepers with a few outstanding ones in the mix. Outcrossing is really rolling the dice. Not to say you wouldn't end up with some rabbit dogs but you may have a lot of variability in style and more culls unless the outcrossed hounds were from solid linebred hounds on each side and the two lines had similar running styles.
Additionally, the reason to outcross is to add something that is lacking in your line or to improve something in your line.
Just my opinion, of course.

[fulcount]

Personally I believe we should be breeding from proven bitches and males
however we choose to breed line breed or out cross
the hounds we breed from should be solid rabbit dogs under the gun
we should know all we can about the hounds behind the ones we breed from so the ped is important as long as we know what we are looking at
no way should we breed strictly from the paper tho
I dont believe in the BROOD BITCH policy no matter what the paperwork
I also dont think field trials are the ultimate way to evaluate a hounds worth there are too many variables in competition too many OPINIONS as to what constitutes a top rabbit hound
Personally I line breed from a really good solid bloodline that I have knowledge of for many generations into the ped
The person doing the breeding just needs to be honest with himself
as to what he wants in a rabbit dog and breed for it
WE CAN FOOL OTHERS WITH WHAT WE HAVE BUT IF WE FOOL OURSELVES WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE

Remember Garbage in garbage out

John Otruba

[mspaci]

I noticed in another thread Danny was going to breed a female he found to a grade dog he has.( unless that was a joke & I didnt get it) Thats his business & I am not here to tell him what to do. I dont know Danny but read alot on here what he says & does. I personally wouldnt get a dog from him. What I am trying to say is be careful who you deal with & do your homework before purchasing a dog. I am not a breeder & admitt I dont know the first thing about breeding for success. I have some good dogs( or what I believe proven under the gun rabbit dogs now) & might breed some day. I would first speak with the guys who know about the 2 lines I have. Before I would breed my 2 & would have to decide by talking with people who know if it is better to breed to others in the line. There is alot more to it than just sticking 2 dogs together. JMHO Mike

[danny vansickle]

don't you think i would have ran her first?

bottom line,i will do what i want,i could care less if youor the next guy buys a dog from me,i don't breed to make money,if i did i would have 50 bitches in my back yard breeding them everychance i get and pumping out pups,i breed to select males to get pups for myself and sell what i don't keep,i bred to brandon hills blaze dog cause i like the dog,not because i figured i could make a buck,same as breeding to reggie,yeh,his pups are selling like hot cakes and i can breed to him whenever i want,he is right down the street and what is a stud fee when you can sell the pups for any price,i bred to dozer and sold the pups 200 and 250,if i wanted i could breed to him and reggie and make some decent money but do i have a ton of females pregnant all the time,no,i have 4 brood bitches thats it.if you don't buy a pup the next guy will.

what would you all do if you didn't have me to pick on?

and what happened to my question earlier on why posts slamming others are deleted with the quickness and this one and others slamming me or what i do are left on here?

[danny vansickle]

I noticed in another thread Danny was going to breed a female he found to a grade dog he has.( unless that was a joke & I didnt get it) Thats his business & I am not here to tell him what to do. I dont know Danny but read alot on here what he says & does. I personally wouldnt get a dog from him. What I am trying to say is be careful who you deal with & do your homework before purchasing a dog. I am not a breeder & admitt I dont know the first thing about breeding for success. I have some good dogs( or what I believe proven under the gun rabbit dogs now) & might breed some day. I would first speak with the guys who know about the 2 lines I have. Before I would breed my 2 & would have to decide by talking with people who know if it is better to breed to others in the line. There is alot more to it than just sticking 2 dogs together. JMHO Mike

you just said you don't know the first thing about breeding for success and in the same post telling people not to buy my dogs cause the way i breed,that does not make a bit of sense buddy

first of all the grade dog i was talking about is stretch,who is a arha gr r ch and bench champion,the dog earned the title grand champion at the age of 18 months,do you know any other dog to do that?he has won multiple hunts,state hunts,and placed in a bunch of big fives,so i would think he would be a good grade dog to breed to,don't you think?

and in that post i said i was thinking about doing the breeding,i run all my females to see what they are made of and what they would contribute to the pups,plus in the post i said i was giving her away and if no one took her i said i MIGHT breed,i never said i would breed.