Puppies, Breeding and MONEY????

[Huntin54]

Good post. danny vansickle

[jlboomer]

danny i will back you up on the dogs being breed alike throwing different qualitys in there pups. i had 2 grade males that where brothers from a very old line that had been in my family for 20yrs and that i could trace back 40yrs. now this line always throught pretty solid rabbit dogs some better than others but for the most part you could kill all the rabbits you wanted well anyways i remember having 2 brothers and i breed each to 3 different females that where there distant cousins and you would be amazed at the mix i got i mean some from one male would be super fast some from the other where dead medium speed i mean i got all sorts of differences but the one thing that i could commend both males on is out of 28 or 29 pups 20 them started easy on rabbits and made rabbit hounds even tho there running styles and things varied alot. i still considered them producers and i still have a male from that line in my kennel that money can't buy. this is a good topic and i like it i look at pedigrees but i don't care about champions im an avide patch breeder and i think there a good solid line to start from.

[jonnyringo]

I can't be sure, but I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested to make a breeding soley on the pedigree.

LOL Bev, you read my mind.

[Bev]

LOL. I think we got ignored on that point.

*taps on microphone* "Is this thing working?"

[dale rivers beagles]

i think where a lot of people get mixed up is when they breed to one of the big stud dogs they forget that they are not buying reggie or turbo, but they buying the genes these dogs throw,they can only hope to get a reggie or a turbo , beware these kind are truly rare, and if find one count your blessings. you may only get one in a lifetime of breeding.

[bill (flint river )]

i think where a lot of people get mixed up is when they breed to one of the big stud dogs they forget that they are not buying reggie or turbo, but they buying the genes these dogs throw,they can only hope to get a reggie or a turbo , beware these kind are truly rare, and if find one count your blessings. you may only get one in a lifetime of breeding.

I dissagree, reggie has full brother's that have produced very well. and u are not adding to the fact , on how many pups were wrecked before they ever got a real chance. over runned, packed to much with much older hard hitting hounds. burned to the ground with shock collars. any pup is only has good has the training. u have to develope the mind and the body.u also have to be devoted, i am not sure what it cost kevin to finsh reggie. but i bet it wasnt cheap. he paid good money for the dog and spent alot money driven and shipping him all over. I will never be that detremend to finsh a hound.

[Bev]

I think where people get mixed up is that they don't factor in that their bitch is half responsible for what they get. The dams are not a generic incubator into which you can insert any male and get another copy of that male. We must be assuming all bitches are equal. The bitch is going to alter the mix quite a bit. Everyone says "ol' So n So is a good dog but doesn't reproduce dogs like himself." No kidding...? Then breed him to his sister.

[Dolly]

Grade dogs or Registered dogs, I hunt both. I do not care what type of papers a dog has or any. I want a dog that can put rabbits under the gun. I dont know which is best. I have bought very well bred, papered pups that have turned out excellent and some that have turned to be nothing, same on the grade side. I have went to some UBGF trials, and have been disgusted, in no way was it the test of a hunting dog. What ever happened to hunt test. When you take a cast of hounds and they follow the crowd, waiting for a tally ho and the people to jump the rabbits, how does that test the overall ability of a hound. I want rabbit hounds that hit the briars, brush piles and drive rabbits out and that can push them until a gun can be put on them. If I got to do the work why feed a hound. I have been into hounds since a very young boy with my grand pa. I seen him cull dogs the old fashioned way, not try and sell the problem dog to someone else. I think what someone said in a earlier post is true excellent dogs are not forsale, but ther are some good ones, and some that are just started that may make excellent ones. It can be a gamble alot of the times when not breeding proven dogs that are producers of your desired traits, and I have never seen one litter yet that all has turned out to excellent rabbit hounds, and I have seen many. I hope I didnt offend anyone, but it is my opinion for what it is worth.

[Bev]

Dolly, we gotta get you to some different trials, lol. The ones I go to the dogs are out of sight hunting before you could jump a rabbit for them. You can't stay with them either (unless you can run like a gazelle). Most of the time they get a start within a few minutes, and the best you can do is get yourself in position to see the rabbit or fox (I run both types of trials) when it comes through.

UBGF is just one of many associations of beagle field trials, and they all run different styles of dogs.

I don't think you offended anyone, and opinions are welcome.

Sorry to go off-topic.

[mud]

This is a great topic.I don't keep many dogs.Breed an AKC bitch last year first time in 5 years I had any pups sold them for $50 apiece at 3 months old and kept a couple. I made money LOL So I don't sell many pups good thing.However I generally prefer grade dogs for my purposes.I just gun hunt and pack run with friends.Grade dogs and pups can be bought cheaper and the quality can be just as good.I have friends that are all AKC thats fine with me.Some of the dogs they own are better than mine.I on the other hand own a few that can and will hold their own.I think everyone has to do whats best for them.I just bought a young hound under a year old.It is a grade dog.I paid $100.The dog jumped rabbits everytime I seen him out.Big honest mouth handles packs no trash thus far and has plenty of speed.I say this because a pup or young AKC hound of this caiber would be $300 or more. I have been guilty on occasion of paying for the higher priced AKC hound in the past.To get outside, hunt have some fun and not be shamed grade dogs are for the most part the route I choose.If I was wanting to trial.Raise some pups and try to make a few bucks I would go AKC.

[hardtack]

good point bev, about the females part, makes you wonder why so many people breed to females that have never ran a rabbit.

[Jane]

I think where people get mixed up is that they don't factor in that their bitch is half responsible for what they get. The dams are not a generic incubator into which you can insert any male and get another copy of that male. We must be assuming all bitches are equal. The bitch is going to alter the mix quite a bit. Everyone says "ol' So n So is a good dog but doesn't reproduce dogs like himself." No kidding...? Then breed him to his sister.

Absolutely 100 % TRUE ! You need a solid foundation in both sexes to have a better chance of improving the breed (grade dog or champion, doesn't matter). Most beaglers are breeding for themselves and if they sell one or two out of the litter, it ain't for money ! It's usually to a clubmember, etc. who liked the breeding.
The house pet trade are the ones making money and turning emotional profit thru the pet stores.....

[MasonsBeagles]

good point Bev on the females.

I agree breeding to an exceptional male is generally the way to go. with exceptions that if you see a variety of offspring from a certain stud or bitch out of different crosses and they show the same characteristerics and those characteristics are what Im looking for then I will give that a consideration. Ive seen dogs from the same litter, some exceptional and some decent. Seen the exceptional hounds produce decent dogs and seen the decent hounds produce exceptional hounds. Its all a crap shoot at times. A dogs ability does not necessarily make them a prepotent producers. I personally will take a chance on a hound that is exceptional, but typically want to see several different offspring prior to making a final decision.

A pedigree to me is a tie breaker. If I have two males that I like and want to use one in a breeding I will look at the pedigree to see which one I like the breeding on better. Even with line breeding you get differences and I assume for the most part you always will. Nothing is a Cookie Cutter and that is a good thing because the variety is what will ensure the survival of all breeds.

As far as puppy prices. I dont make alot of crossess but when I do I usually get a decent price for my pups. One, I have put alot of time and energy into Pre Breedings. I put alot of time and energy into the pregnancy and definately put alot of time into the birthing and raising of the pups. I gurantee the health of pups that leave here. They dont leave without proper wormings, shots etc.

Its not always the case but a guy picked up a pup from me a year or so ago. Hed just picked up another mans pups the same age hed paid about half price. He was proud of the pup hed picked up til he saw the one he got from me. They were different as night and day, mine was twice the size and didnt have the bloated worm belly. Most people that have seen pups that leave my kennel will testify to the quality of health of pups that leave here.

As far as it being profitable. I can tell you know if I hit the lottery Ill breed and sell pups til I run out of money...lol Cause it hasnt been a profit center. About the only way it would be is if I bred dog to dog and didnt do a thing to or for them and sold the ones that lived.

[Bev]

Good post and good points, MasonsBeagles! A person should write down every penny he/she spends from pre-breeding to date of sale, (bruc test, stud fee if any, travel expenses if any, wormers, shots, extra feed bill, etc.) pay themselves just minimum wage, and it's easy to see if you charge below the "going rate" for your puppies, you're not even breaking even - you're going in the hole, lol.

Jane, I agree that most trialer/breeders like to get their pups into the hands of someone who will campaign them, know and appreciate the bloodlines - like club members or association members. Word gets around quickly in "the community" about which crosses did well and which didn't, yet nobody gets too bent about it when it happens. It's hard to predict sometimes. Sometimes a breeding just won't nick regardless of how good the individual dogs are, or the dogs in the pedigree. When you get a 6-week-old pup there are no guarantees, pedigreed or not, but one bred like you like, and given plenty of opportunity gives one better odds.

[Alabama John]

Good posts!
I always have felt the bitch puts more into the pups than the sire.
With that thinking, folks will be sure they have a real good Bitch before breeding to a great stud and the thinking will usually prove true.

Before you cull too hard, realize there are folks like me that are always ready to purchase certain of your culls that many others wouldn't have.
Local folks know what I like. When I buy one, they are certainly not putting a cull on me. I do the same for them if mine don't fit me.

I just got one that a friend called me about. He has been running with some friends and they all have (about 25) good med-fast running dogs, but this one female is taking the rabbit and holding up about 75-100 yards ahead of the packs and ruining their races. She is getting a lot of so-called solo time.

I took her off their hands cheap and she will fit right in here if running with dogs her equal doesn't blow her up as sometimes happens.