Have you ever????

[WSRandy]

If you use this method to cull from your pack, fine, as an American you have the right to do so, but keep it off of public forums.

I agree with everything you said except the part I quoted.....In America, most states have laws against being cruel to animals......some of which carry a Felony for each death!

I am seeing more and more trialers that look like puppy mills!

Randy

[DDWBeagles]

WSRandy, you are exactly right. I realized that as I was typing the earlier response, but I was on a roll and let it slide. Again, I want to emphasize, that I hate PETA, am not a tree hugger or animal rights activist, but dont want a few knuckle heads to spoil it for the rest of us. As far a bettering the breed, I am as active in pursuing that philosophy as anyone and would bet, I've got more money tied up in two pups than most have in their pack. Anyway, that's another story. Everyone take care. For those of you that may be headed out to the UKC World Hunt in Saltville VA on Oct 4,5, I'll see ya there.

If it were up to me, I would just delete this entire thread, but the controversal topics always get the most responses.

[Chris]

Christine, anyone killing a dog in whatever method, bullet or Vet, for not living up to his standards should do it only in the presence of their wife or wife to be. Then look at her sorta sideways and squinch his eyes.

It gives them cause to think!

That's made me laught out loud, but when I showed my wife she wasn't impressed.

I am not pigeonholing ALL beaglers.

That's sure not what it sounded like. Your initial post reminded me of a few of the 'conversations' that I've had with some of the soccer mom's of my son's soccer team -- it seems that for them decisions are best made with one's heart, and not necessarilly with one's head. Considering that there are many more dogs, cats, etc., than there are good homes, I don't think that it's a bad thing to have a dog put down. You can allow it to tug at your heartstrings all you like, but that's not going to change reality.

If you use this method to cull from your pack, fine, as an American you have the right to do so, but keep it off of public forums...

My old deer club, shot a lot of their dogs at the end of the season. If they didn't earn their keep during deer season, the owners were not going to feed them all year. I understand the logic perfectly...

So much for keeping it off the public forums.

In America, most states have laws against being cruel to animals......some of which carry a Felony for each death!

And I suppose that you consider putting an animal down as cruel??? So is shocking them, keeping them out of the woods for a week, taking a switch to them, etc. -- I've done each of those things at one time or another, and so have many other Beaglers, so just how much jail time do you think is appropriate?

Most of us treat our hounds caringly and lovingly, and I don't think it's wise to condemn those who put dogs down for valid reasons. There are times when MYOB is the best policy -- I think this is one of those times.

My last 2 cents on the subject.

[mony]

Hey Christine,
I guess I should have logged in before posting the first time. Thank you for responding.

Culling is culling. It doesn't matter if you handle it yourself or have someone else do it. As far as breeding a good producing female 6 times in her life, I don't see the problem.
If you think that other hound and show dog people don't do their own culling you are mistaken.
If you reread your first post I think you'll see why I think you meant putting it down yourself is inhumane. However you did correct yourself in your reply to me. Thank you, it's nice to know we're on the same page on that issue.
In an attempt to better the breed unpleasant things must sometimes be done. I would never ask someone else to do mine for me. I find it much more crule to take a dog that I put so much time and love in to a stranger for it's last moment of life.

Thanks,
Mony [/quote]

[Alabama John]

Chris, I was trying to stir up Christine but she didn't fall for it!

Believe me, I knew better than to show that post to my wife and that's why we have been married 42 years!

[oakhill]

Hey everybody,
This is definitely a touchy subject and one that I would probably stay out of except that the name Christine rings a bell with me. Earlier in the year I got a real nasty email from someone named Christine. Had all sort of accusations, cuss words, and mean thing to say in it. Call me a G D puppy mill. I think I kept it somewhere. Wish I could find it and I would post it on here. I wrote back responding and asking her to come visit my kennel, check out my hounds, and show her that she would not find any happier hounds anywhere. Got no response. Emailed again and again and still no response.
I have some different opinions than some of you on this subject. But that is fine. That is what makes this a fantastic forum. I learn alot and respect all of your opinions even if I may not agree. Could only shoot a dog if it was suffering or a threat to me or someone else. Would not have a mean and crazy dog and would not pass it on to hurt someone else.

POINT IS:
WATCH OUT FOR CHRISTINE!!!! SHE IS WATCHING THIS BOARD AND LOOKING FOR THINGS LIKE THIS TO RIP US BEAGLERS APART!!!!!

Sally

[samlyn0001]

Christine

I dont see a problem with letting a bitch have six litters in a lifetime. How much money do you really think we are making off raising rabbit dogs? Take into consideration:
Dog food, Pup chow, Vet bills for any problems that may arise, shots, wormings, heartworm preventative, fencing, dog houses, kennel flooring, collars, leashes, food bowls, water buckets, time spent delivering, training, ect. ect. And the list goes on............I know alot of people that dont just breed for the money! They want to have a hound out of their two best to suite their needs. You tend to build a bond with your hounds. When you have that trust they will do anything to please you. They are your hunting partner.

Do you think that anyone that has a strong bond with their hounds wouldnt take the best possible care of them? How many hounds do you think that we should be allowed to have on our premises? Is there a limit to that too?

As far as shooting a dog, or any other animal for that matter, I would if I had too. If my dog is laying in the road and just got hit by a car and I feel that it would cause more suffering by trying to load them in the car I would shoot it on the spot. It would break my heart to look them in those big brown eyes and do it because they are part of our family, but........If need be I would!!! Also if I had a dog bite someone whether it be mine or the neighbors that dog would also get the bullet!

Also culling is a term that is used pretty friggen loosley. Everyone on her uses the word in a different text! I sure hope you know a person well enough to make the decision of how they are using that term in their kennel!

As far as having an ego trip as to how many rabbits we can shoot, there are many of us out there who just enjoy taking our hounds hunting because the fact that we have raised them from a pup. Each day is a new adventure. To see how far they have progressed from the month before. Alot of us enjoy seeing our hounds run. Listening to them. That is what they were bred to do. Some have it in them instinctively and some dont.

I do believe that we all come to the beagle forums to learn more information on our hounds. I really dont think that we are here to bash other peoples ethics.

Oakhill
I do believe that I remember reading that nasty little note!

[AlabamaSwamper]

Here is my last comments and I'm done here.

I do as I please with "my" dogs. I stress that word "my" more than any. I feed them, doctor them and pet them. I hunt them all I can. I figure by the time a dog dies, I have well over $1000 in him counting what I paid for him. Shots, food, wormer, collars. You get the picture. IF I want to put that dog down as I please, then that is my darn business and not anyone else's. I stress that I do not shoot my dogs. I would if I had to, but I don't just shoot the darn things nor does anyone else I hunt with. The one's I have seen shot were useless for anything and most were extremely shy.

I'm wondering if some folks on here have ever had that sorta dog. Not sure but I'm betting they haven't. Once a dog has had it share of opportunities and you can't even catch it, what is left to do? Most of these deer dogs I speak of were walkers, blueticks and redbones. Who wants one of them as a pet? Nobody that I ever found. Like I said, most were stupid and shy so they are no good and trust me, they ain't worth the $100 to put them down. Dogs that gave their all for them guys were well took care of. Better than most I imagine.

My last thing is this, keep your nose where it belongs. Culling dogs like this is accepted down here, whether right or wrong. It's not my business or anyone else's. Some say shooting deer with the gun I shoot them with is inhumane around here but it's quicker than any other gun I have found. Some say running dogs that catch rabbits is inhumane, so what, if that is what folks like then so be it. Just keep your comments to yourself when it involves other folks stuff, Christine!

[Biran]

The guy who culls his rejects is not the one you have to worry about or criticize. Point the finger to the ones who pawn off their rejects on others or the guy who dumps his culls off on the side of the road to starve and fend for itself. The man who culls the rejects is atleast looking out for the breed as a whole by not allowing those genetics to perpetuate. As for posting your rejects on here as free pets after you have spent the money to spay or neuter them and actually thinking folks are going to beat your door down to get them. WAKE UP! Cull the way you feel most comfortable but in a humane way (quick and painless).

If you feel you need a crusade how about going to some of our countrys inner city areas there you will find dogs suffering from abuse, starvation, neglect and fought to the death in brutal battles for the amusement of betting enthusiasts. Thats cruelty!

I'M DONE WITH THIS!!!!!!!!!!

[Christine M.]

Someone said they are seeing more trialers looke like puppy millers... I'm glad soemone else brought this up because I've met with a few like this. Only difference was they weren't breeding for money. The way soem of the dogs are housed, fed and bred are giving us a bad image. Much more importantly, we are not doing right by ourselves and our dogs. I'm sorry to have caused a stir on this board, but I think in this area, a stir needed to be caused. Gets the brain juices flowing

[Boomer]

[quote]Would you be willing to take all the culls that can't cut it in field and give them good homes and a porch to sit on.[/quote]

There are people and organizations who do this. Most don't have the time, room, or money to save all of the beagles in the shelters in their own city or county. If there are that many beagles that "can't cut in in field," then many of the people breeding them and/or training them to hunt are doing a pee poor job.

[quote]Seems like this would solve your delima since you feel that putting down dogs that can't better the breed is inhumane. How about the cows that don't milk and the chickens that won't lay eggs. [/quote]

Sounds like you're putting hunting beagles on the same level as livestock. I know of places that do so for legal purposes, but I don't know many Americans who do. Nobody calls cows or chickens "man's best friend." About the only people in America who put cows and chickens on the same level as beagles would be PETA-types.

A beagle that doesn't hunt properly still can have a purpose in our society. In addition to being pets, beagles are also used to find termite infestations, serve the USDA as part of the Beagle Brigade, and can be used as search dogs, bomb-sniffing dogs, etc. Maybe you can tell me what other purposes these dry cows and infertile chickens can serve.

I think it's ridiculous to have to justify a beagle as being more than a disposable piece of meat on a beagle bulletin board.

[Guest]

Wow, as I am reading more of this thread I am SHOCKED! First of all, we need to clear things up. I hunt with my hounds. I am no tree hugger. I want no part of PETA's "lets phase out companion animals and save the furry bunny wabbit" philosophy. I am not against culling. I said myself I'd not be willing to take on all the world's culls, nor should anyone else. Culls, that is dogs that show serious faults such as lack of desire, shyness, aggressiveness..... should be culled, and euthanizing sometimes is the best way, especially whne behavioral problems are involved. But those of you who find nothing wrong with shooting a dog for embarrasing an owner or shooting a dog from old age, disease, or jus tbecause it is a cull, and not living up to your standards, you are missing the point.
We are responisble for the lives we are keeping in our kennels or homes, and they deserve the dignity of being put down by a vet. What if that bullet isn't so well placed? Ever think of that? Do you know what puppy millers do when their dogs are bred out? They take them back and shoot them. How does that make those of you who shoot dogs look? Like millers? If the shoe fits...
While this is CERTAINLY not the only breed that is culled, EVERY breed is culled, just with different methods, we are probably one of the only if not the only group that regularly shoots our culls as if it were nothing.

To Sally of Oakhill beagles:
Please get your facts corrected before you accuse me of being an AR activist or someone who harrassed you in an e-mail. If you had read my previous posts, I stated I do hunt with my beagles, and love the sport. Just hate, and am embarrased by the way some beaglers operate. I actually found your web site on this board earlier this summer, and was interested in your bloodline. I have a male out of Hanks Jo Jo Blue/ Emmons Blue Streaker lines and at some time wished to purchase another, or when I have the room, a few more It seems we do not see eye to eye on proper care of dogs though...

[Alabama John]

Has anyone ever seen one of these activist or folks from PETA that some fear so on this board. I haven't.

I saw on TV once some folks men and women, wwho saw trucks parked on the side of the woods and went in to find and follow the hunters they found around through the woods, disrupting their hunting. I think it was deer hunting. One had a big camera on his shoulder. It was televised and I think set up for the show. I doubt it was a real hunter, but one of their bunch dresed up like Elmer Fudd, hat and all to make us all scared of them.

Each time they screwed up a hunters hunt as well as his day, he was driven to leave the woods and everytime they won a victory for the deer. There ws never a child with a single one of the hunters. (I felt that would create sympathy for the hunters and defeat their agenda) We all know taking a child hunting is one of huntings rewards.

The hunters sure were a passive bunch! Too passive to be believable!!!!

[DDWBeagles]

Well, like I said in my original post, controversial topics always get the most views/responses. This one is no different. Chris, you got me....lol darn, I got burned by my own quote . You are right, my comments about the deer club didn't help this matter. Anyway, I'll keep reading with amuzement, but resign any further post on this topic. I think the MYOB best sums up this entire conversation.

[dosgris]

let me begin by saying i am a no good bleeding heart bastard,, who could no more shoot my dog than i could shoot one of my own kids,,,, come to think of it,,,, maybe that is a bad analogy,,,, than i could shoot my dear elderly mother,,,yeah, that's better,,, the damned kids might not make the week,,,,, anyway,, the dog's get the best of everythin,, best food, doggy vitamins, they stay in the house with their puppies when they have puppies,,, lots of socialization. so if one of mine were to be culled (although i can't imagine that i would cull them, but i guess it could happen) giving them away would be a fine option.

but what of a dog who has lived his entire life in a hunting kennel with a multitude of other dogs. a dog that has not been socialized. a dog that has never been around children, that might be aggressive. if this dog does not work as a hunting dog what is to become of it. is not putting this dog down a humane and safe way to do things???? and putting the dog down is putting the dog down,,, if you can afford the 50dollar shot, good for you, if it helps,,, but the 2cent 22 lr in the right place achieves the same purpose in much he same manner.

fortunately, this would never happen to me because my dogs are so well socialized,,, life as pets would be open to them.