Your Pack Preference

[Alabama John]

All our opinions depend on where you hunt, run and the conditions.

Lots of water here, and when the track ends at a body of water, some dogs just have it in them to swim across immediately to try to pick up the rabbit on the other side while others go up, and some down the bank looking for the track. All are gambling.
If the rabbit is found on this side, the crossers gets behind while they swim back over, but if the rabbit crossed, they will have the front while the others that stayed on the bank swim over.
In a common situation like this, covering them with a "Church Revival Tent" would be closer to the truth than a blanket.
Down here, dogs running 4 abreast is normal on a good scenting day with their heads raised air scenting, not running a footprint ground track with their heads below their knees.

That's why we all like different dogs for our packs.

[Larry G]

If you've ever seen a big pack of fox dogs on a hot line they are running more than 4 abreast. May not be the best thing on a rabbit but I don't like to see 10 running single file like some people want. That's a funny sight to see that many little dogs trotting along in a line all screaming their heads off. I asked an old man why he wanted that, and he said the dogs that ain't right on the line ain't running the rabbit. They got to slot up and wait for their chance. Well this is America and he can do whatever turns him on.

[jonnyringo]

TimH


Where did I say all fast dogs are faulty ???? I am just giving one example of how any speed of dog could be faulty. If you need an anchor dog, your have hounds over running their noses, period. Pack any style of dogs you want, however you want.

I have seen very few hard driving hounds that don't on occasion over run their quarry. That's not a fault but more a style. These dogs are quick to get back on the rabbit. On tough scenting days the anchor will help them get their quicker. Less disruption is what we are after. Keep it going with limited quick checks.

[Duke]

Jumpmaster,
The term"you could throw a blanket over them" only refers to when they are running the line, not in a check area, which is the loss of a line and the stop of forward progress. Your friends are using the term incorrectly. It refers strictly to a pack running the line.

[TomMN]

"All our opinions depend on where you hunt, run and the conditions. "

I agree %100 but I also disagree, if that makes sense. I'll try to explain.

I hunt mostly hare. We don't have any multiflora. This is big country and the rabbits run big, the harder you run them the bigger they run. On the other hand, someone mentioned their dogs running when you could drop a match and start a forest fire. That is pretty common here this time of year and we think summer running is easy. It gets a lot tougher in winter.

I have in mind what a perfect rabbit dog should be and I want every dog in the pack to come as close to that as possible. I don't keep any specialists. Some are better jump dogs than others but if they can't run the way I want them to run, jumping rabbits won't earn them a spot in the kennel. I want all of them to be as close to perect as possible. I know that will never happen but if you are willing to settle for less that is just what you will get.

My goal is to have dogs that can run the line like it is painted on the ground. I want them to run the rabbit as fast as possible, but I also want them to turn with the rabbit. If the rabbit takes a hard right I look for the dog that can make the turn at full speed and be back on the track in the least amount of time and with the least amount of steps. In my experience, a dog that can do this also has enough nose and "rabbit sense" to excell in poor conditions.

Common sense tells me that when I go to run cottontails in thick blowdowns and brush, I should leave the speed dogs home and take the closer running, SPO bred dogs. Reality has shown me that I can kill more cottontails and have more fun with my best high speed, big nosed, heads up, poor condition running hare dogs.

"All our opinions depend on where you hunt, run and the conditions."
That makes perfect sense and it is %100 true, but an outstanding dog or pack will excell no matter were you put them down.

[Briarhoppers]

Here is the question I have for all those who rely on an anchor dog to keep the track going. Why are the other dogs needed? They are not going to be able to circle the rabbit any faster than the anchor dog can clean up checks behind them.

I have no problem w/ fast dogs. The faster the better actually! What I won't have in my pack is a dog that over runs a turn by 20 yards b4 he knows he's lost the line. And what I don't understand is needing to own a second dog just to make up for the weaknesses the other dogs.

Sure all dogs are better at this or that on a given day, and I'm not looking to have a pack of clones. I just don't understand needing a dog that specializes in check or jumps, etc. in order to run rabbits on a given day.

Same thing is true for a jump dog. I don't understand having to buy a jump dog just b/c your other dogs don't hunt or struggle to jump rabbits. I would say I don't have a true jump dog in my pack. But, I expect all of them to hunt and jump rabbits or I don't have a place for them. I just sold a dog that hunted her heart out, but couldn't get a check to save her life. I don't need her.

My point is, if someone has a pack of 10 dogs, but they have one dog that jumps 90% of the rabbits and one dog that gets 90% of the checks then what are the other dogs doing? Pushing a track between breakdowns is not much of a contribution in IMO.

I'd much rather have 3 well rounded dogs that get 1/3 of the jumps each and 1/3 of the checks each....in all different types of conditions.

Just my thoughts,

-pete

[jonnyringo]

Pete,

We all want well rounded dogs. I won't keep a dog that can't do it all. I like the analogy earlier about why a basketball team doesn't play five centers. Diversity is a good thing in a pack. Each dog pulling it's own weight and contributing. Of course, as I stated from post one, I wouldn't mix a brace hound with a hard hitting pack. In short, the dogs must have similar running styles and be well rounded with gears. That is common sense I think.

[Tim H]

briarhoppers, go back and read the posts. You still are not understanding what an anchor dog is or how it works in the pack, you are also assume that fast dogs in a pack must be sloppy when it comes to line control. This is all in the previous posts. Again I will say this, if all of the dogs in the pack are "well rounded" but don't excel in anything then you have an average pack.

Your whole line of thinking has to assume fast dogs and jump dogs are faulty or you wouldn't need the anchor dog. What if they're not faulty but just excel in one area or another, do you then cull them from your pack? I know your argument has been that these dogs must be faulty, but what if they aren't, would your argument still hold up?

[ANTHONY KERR]

I disagree with the basketball analagy. In sports it is done both ways just like building a pack. A coach picks a method based on his personell or his model. Jordan did not always do the things that Dean Smith thought he should do for the team and he sat on the bench. His model was team play beat individual efforts. Another coach might try to exploit individual efforts and do it effectively. Watch out for foul trouble or bad grades.
Center is a posisition in an offensive or defensive scheme. A tall player does not a center make. Not all centers would work on every team. Some teams run and shoot. A big cumbersome specialist may not make down the court quick enough to get a rebound. You can post a guard down low if he can beat his man with quickness or size. Well rounded players are sometimes better than specialists. Diversity of individuals to play defense and offense makes the team rather than a man who can dunk it some of the time. The ability to do more than one thing is critical. In sports how many times has a well rounded team beat a team of Prima Donnas.
An example would be a team that the star has been out, but the team is winning without them. Can't wait for the star to get back, then he comes back and they get the crap kicked out of them by the weak sisters of the blind and sickly. The balance was upset, synergy suffered whether it was a gumption killer to the man who stepped up or laziness on the whole team because the star was back.
I think as of right now I like above average individuals that are similar speed and hunt. If I owned Syris Mcgee I might feel different.

[jonnyringo]

I disagree with the basketball analagy....

Diversity of individuals to play defense and offense makes the team rather than a man who can dunk it some of the time.
The ability to do more than one thing is critical. In sports how many times has a well rounded team beat a team of Prima Donnas.
.

By your arguement it seems you do agree with the basketball analogy.

[Rabbithoundjb]

Tim I went back and read your discription of an anchor dog and that actually sounds like a older, seasoned dog that will indeed pull the younger, less experienced dogs back in. If that is what you are saying then I can agree with you but if you are saying that people are having to run a dog with their experienced pack to hold them together and run a good rabbit then I would say there is 1 well rounded dog and at best an average pack with that dog. As I said before what happens if that dog disappears.

This is my opinion and people can build their pack as they see fit but I have 15 running dogs as I write this and I want to be able to go hunting with any combination I choose and run a good, clean rabbit, regardless of what is in heat or cut a foot or pulled a muscle or whatever.

For those of you who say 15 dogs, let me shed some light on that. 1 is 11 years old and I only run her with pups. 4 are 1 year old and I have been running them every trip since hunting season ended last year.

I have been splitting up my running dogs in different combinations since hunting season last year, in fact I haven't run all of them together since hunting season.

The old dog will die here and 8 of the running dogs are staying as for the rest if they don't measure up they will be gone. I will give an example: I bought a lumberjack female 3 years old a few months ago and so far I have not seen enough to get my attention. She does a good job in her check work but she is yet to convince me she can put any pressure on the rabbit, she can stay after him but 1 of those 1 year old puppies can run a much better rabbit in fact she's a better dog. The 3 year old looks a rabbit track, she doesn't hunt a rabbit to jump in the thick stuff, in short I am watching to see if she adjusts to my core pack and begins to contribute more. If not she will be gone and their is nothing really wrong with her like I said she a decent check dog, doesn't run off game but right now she does less work then any of my other broke dogs and is being beat by a 1 year old pup. That has to change if she wants to stay here.

[ANTHONY KERR]

Johnny,
I think you have to look at the whole thing not just bits and pieces. I have a buddy that had one heck of a hound. She jumped,checked and ran. The rest of the dogs were just pack dogs he called them. We managed to kill rabbits over this combination. When she gave out the killing was over. Some of the dogs or followers looked lost when she was gone. I decided to try to look for dogs that could still get the job done even if they were alone. I admit that my way could be wrong, but if the end result makes me happy I might be right.
Give me a team that thinks like Quarterbacks.

[jonnyringo]

This topic has really shed a lot of light on pack preference and I complement everyone for their contribution. After reading all the posts and re-reading some I really do not feel most of us are disagreeing a whole heck of a lot. I think we all want our packs built with well rounded dogs that contribute and can run their own rabbit. I see the only the main difference is some want identical dogs in style while others want some with some different styles or strong points. If all the dogs are good solid hounds and work well together as a pack I guess that is the main thing.

[Tim H]

jonnyringo, I think you see what everyone is saying. I think rabbithoundjb's analogy of my analogy is a good summary of what has been said in these posts. Each coach/handler will decide how they want the hounds to work and then recruit the players/hounds they think fits their plan. I think we are magnifying the differences which helps you see some different view points.

I think something we all would agree on is that every dog in the pack should jump, run and circle it's own rabbit consistently. A dog that can't do that would not be in any of our packs whether it's an anchor dog, "specialist" or just a part of the pack.

[jonnyringo]

Tim,

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head in several of your posts and I completely understand and fully agree with your views and strategy on "pack preference" or building packs.
Good luck this hunt'n season. Sounds like you have a good pack.

ringo